Blown head gaskets -- new crate engine instead?
#61
01-30-2016, 11:12 AM
I will run this list past him. As far as we know, it had the blue spring upgrade but he is going to put in a new "key shaped" gasket/seal. The oil filter stand pipe will not exist any more -- at least that is my understanding with the Bulletproof remote oil cooler and filter kit. I don't know what an LPO is.
#62
01-30-2016, 11:16 AM
#63
01-30-2016, 11:24 AM
#64
02-13-2016, 01:38 PM
So here is the latest. Had the truck towed to the mechanic Friday Feb.5th. He started tearing it down on Monday. Tuesday he had the body off and was pulling the engine. Remember, he is doing studs, head gaskets and a full "engine seal" which includes bed plate, upper and lower pan, front and rear crank seals, etc.. He quoted me $3,400.00 to do the job, labor only, I supply all of the parts. I spoke to him on Friday the 12th and he was lowering the body back down and finishing everything up. He said he may be finished with it late Monday or Tuesday (he doesn't work weekends) -- he wants to drive it for a while.
I haven't seen the full bill from him (I wound up getting a water pump from him, injector seals and o-rings, and a crankshaft position sensor -- don't know what they will add to the $3,400.00 but best I can tell, I am just under $9,000.00 total repair job. I will list everything I had done in a separate reply later today.
I haven't seen the full bill from him (I wound up getting a water pump from him, injector seals and o-rings, and a crankshaft position sensor -- don't know what they will add to the $3,400.00 but best I can tell, I am just under $9,000.00 total repair job. I will list everything I had done in a separate reply later today.
#65
02-13-2016, 02:11 PM
Here is the list of stuff I replaced/changed. All of the costs listed were the cost I paid -- some included shipping some had tax and some had both. The number I am reporting is delivered to my door.
1) ARP stud kit 456.68
2) Ford head gaskets 304.04 (both)
3) EGR delete kit 57.99
4) Bulletproof remote filter/oil cooler and
Bulletproof clutch fan adapter 2,182.45
5) Hayden 2835 clutch fan (1997 7.3) 109.36
6) 6.4 pushrods 92.61
7) Upper and lower rocker box seals/gaskets 44.00
8) 6.4 Banjo bolts 12.65
9) 6.4 Banjo bolt washers 16.67
10) Motorcraft fuel filters 40.00
11) 4.5 gallons of Rotella ELC coolant 78.70
12) Coolant filter (for Sinister) 5.99
13) 26 Gallons of distilled water 30.00
14) I gallon each of Restore and Restore Plus 72.65
15) EBP adapter and tube 24.88
16) Glow plug harnesses 49.99
17) Glow plugs 91.70
18) HFCM Monster plug 24.24
19) Motorcraft water pump 130.00 (estimated)
20) Thermostat and housing 23.05
21) New upper and lower radiator hoses 72.26
22) 5 gallons of Rotella T-6 5W40 114.30
23) Lifters 245.95
24) Bosch HPOP (includes core return shipping) 673.00
25) ICP 111.45
30) Camshaft position sensor and o-ring 30.20
31) Gaskets and seals to reseal the engine 137.50
32) Crankshaft position sensor 45.00
33) Injector seals and o-rings 45.00
34) Labor 3,400.00
Total cost $8,722.31 give or take
Comments?
He said that they heads "checked out and didn't need any machine work. I wanted a valve job and check the valve guides, etc. But he said his machine shop was 3-4 weeks behind. He does give a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty.
1) ARP stud kit 456.68
2) Ford head gaskets 304.04 (both)
3) EGR delete kit 57.99
4) Bulletproof remote filter/oil cooler and
Bulletproof clutch fan adapter 2,182.45
5) Hayden 2835 clutch fan (1997 7.3) 109.36
6) 6.4 pushrods 92.61
7) Upper and lower rocker box seals/gaskets 44.00
8) 6.4 Banjo bolts 12.65
9) 6.4 Banjo bolt washers 16.67
10) Motorcraft fuel filters 40.00
11) 4.5 gallons of Rotella ELC coolant 78.70
12) Coolant filter (for Sinister) 5.99
13) 26 Gallons of distilled water 30.00
14) I gallon each of Restore and Restore Plus 72.65
15) EBP adapter and tube 24.88
16) Glow plug harnesses 49.99
17) Glow plugs 91.70
18) HFCM Monster plug 24.24
19) Motorcraft water pump 130.00 (estimated)
20) Thermostat and housing 23.05
21) New upper and lower radiator hoses 72.26
22) 5 gallons of Rotella T-6 5W40 114.30
23) Lifters 245.95
24) Bosch HPOP (includes core return shipping) 673.00
25) ICP 111.45
30) Camshaft position sensor and o-ring 30.20
31) Gaskets and seals to reseal the engine 137.50
32) Crankshaft position sensor 45.00
33) Injector seals and o-rings 45.00
34) Labor 3,400.00
Total cost $8,722.31 give or take
Comments?
He said that they heads "checked out and didn't need any machine work. I wanted a valve job and check the valve guides, etc. But he said his machine shop was 3-4 weeks behind. He does give a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty.
Last edited by doug42190; 02-13-2016 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Forgot to add something
#66
05-25-2016, 11:33 AM
Hello everyone, I am back with an update and a question.
I apologize for how long this post is but I was afraid I might leave out important information. Here goes:
The good news is MOST everything seems OK -- no more puking, EOT runs about 15-20 degrees cooler than the engine coolant temperature (depends on outside temp -- ECT 190 EOT 170 if outside is 80 and doing 80).
I have had to take it back for three issues -- first time it just didn't have any power. He checked it and said my FICM was bad. I had the truck back for two days at that time. I said that the FICM was fine when I brought it in -- as far as running it was great, just puking. We discussed that I could not prove it was good when I brought it in and he couldn't prove that he didn't fry it when he was cranking the engine for significant periods to prime the new oil pump, fuel system etc. and had drained the batteries. We compromised at I would pay for a new FICM and he would eat the labor for the diagnostics and to swap the FICM. He swapped the FICM and I left -- with virtually no power until 1600 rpms or so -- and then it would run like a raped ape. Took it back -- he had not checked the number on the new FICM and the parts place had sent him one for a late model 2004 -- I have the early. He swapped it and it was much better.
The second time it had an oil leak on the very front of the engine -- it coated my steering dampener but little else. He took care of it, no charge.
This third time has been frustrating and where I would appreciate some thoughts, ideas, input, etc. I already know this sounds crazy but the truck has a miss in it but it doesn't really have a miss maybe more like a "flat spot." The best way I can describe it is in terms of a gasoline engine. If you left a spark plug wire completely off of a V-8, it would have a miss, no doubt. But if you pushed the plug wire on but not fully on to the plug -- if it was just resting on top of the plug and getting some fire -- it would have a sort of miss in it -- but not a true miss.
That is the kind of miss I am feeling. It doesn't shake or shudder, doesn't blow any black smoke, it just sounds sort of mildly irregular -- not the solid steady hum I expect. The diesel fuel smell out of the exhaust is fairly strong now. There is a somewhat metallic sound best heard with the hood up, standing on the passenger side but I hear too when driving at low speeds. It isn't loud but it is there. The out of the hole power is bad -- really bad. I wouldn't hook to a real loaded trailer for any reason. Once it hits about 1200 it starts to pull fairly well. Fuel mileage is down to 16 but prior to all of the work it was 17.9 to 18.1 every tank. It sounds and feels like it is running on 7 cylinders -- well sort of.
I changed both fuel filters the night before I took it back to him. Both old filters looked OK. Currently it has less than 1,000 miles on these filters. I do run fuel conditioner year round -- less in the warm months but some.
I took it back and he said he put the scan tool on it -- #6 injector was firing intermittently -- he insisted on keeping it overnight. He called the next day and said, "This truck is running great." I picked it up and left on a 280 mile one way trip. For the first 75 miles it was running and sounding very nice -- exactly what I expect from the truck. The rest of the way there and back it is running as described above.
It starts fine, the turbo whistles -- loudly, there is just this "shadow" of a miss. I have considered doing the bubble test in the secondary fuel bowl.
I checked some YouTube videos and one cautioned about how the electrical end of the injector is installed -- that if not done a certain way when you push the harness on you might push the connection back towards the injector without making a correct connection.
At any rate, I could really use some ideas. I am not a mechanic -- I am fairly good with doing mechanical work if I know what to do or look for.
Thank you for your help.
Doug
I apologize for how long this post is but I was afraid I might leave out important information. Here goes:
The good news is MOST everything seems OK -- no more puking, EOT runs about 15-20 degrees cooler than the engine coolant temperature (depends on outside temp -- ECT 190 EOT 170 if outside is 80 and doing 80).
I have had to take it back for three issues -- first time it just didn't have any power. He checked it and said my FICM was bad. I had the truck back for two days at that time. I said that the FICM was fine when I brought it in -- as far as running it was great, just puking. We discussed that I could not prove it was good when I brought it in and he couldn't prove that he didn't fry it when he was cranking the engine for significant periods to prime the new oil pump, fuel system etc. and had drained the batteries. We compromised at I would pay for a new FICM and he would eat the labor for the diagnostics and to swap the FICM. He swapped the FICM and I left -- with virtually no power until 1600 rpms or so -- and then it would run like a raped ape. Took it back -- he had not checked the number on the new FICM and the parts place had sent him one for a late model 2004 -- I have the early. He swapped it and it was much better.
The second time it had an oil leak on the very front of the engine -- it coated my steering dampener but little else. He took care of it, no charge.
This third time has been frustrating and where I would appreciate some thoughts, ideas, input, etc. I already know this sounds crazy but the truck has a miss in it but it doesn't really have a miss maybe more like a "flat spot." The best way I can describe it is in terms of a gasoline engine. If you left a spark plug wire completely off of a V-8, it would have a miss, no doubt. But if you pushed the plug wire on but not fully on to the plug -- if it was just resting on top of the plug and getting some fire -- it would have a sort of miss in it -- but not a true miss.
That is the kind of miss I am feeling. It doesn't shake or shudder, doesn't blow any black smoke, it just sounds sort of mildly irregular -- not the solid steady hum I expect. The diesel fuel smell out of the exhaust is fairly strong now. There is a somewhat metallic sound best heard with the hood up, standing on the passenger side but I hear too when driving at low speeds. It isn't loud but it is there. The out of the hole power is bad -- really bad. I wouldn't hook to a real loaded trailer for any reason. Once it hits about 1200 it starts to pull fairly well. Fuel mileage is down to 16 but prior to all of the work it was 17.9 to 18.1 every tank. It sounds and feels like it is running on 7 cylinders -- well sort of.
I changed both fuel filters the night before I took it back to him. Both old filters looked OK. Currently it has less than 1,000 miles on these filters. I do run fuel conditioner year round -- less in the warm months but some.
I took it back and he said he put the scan tool on it -- #6 injector was firing intermittently -- he insisted on keeping it overnight. He called the next day and said, "This truck is running great." I picked it up and left on a 280 mile one way trip. For the first 75 miles it was running and sounding very nice -- exactly what I expect from the truck. The rest of the way there and back it is running as described above.
It starts fine, the turbo whistles -- loudly, there is just this "shadow" of a miss. I have considered doing the bubble test in the secondary fuel bowl.
I checked some YouTube videos and one cautioned about how the electrical end of the injector is installed -- that if not done a certain way when you push the harness on you might push the connection back towards the injector without making a correct connection.
At any rate, I could really use some ideas. I am not a mechanic -- I am fairly good with doing mechanical work if I know what to do or look for.
Thank you for your help.
Doug
#67
05-26-2016, 08:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western MA
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I can only offer my experience.
I had similar symptoms with the lack of low end power and with intermittent skipping...After I hooked it up to the computer I found I had a bad #5 injector (due to a hose leak that fried the electrical connection), I also replaced my up-pipes due to an exhaust leak and while I was in there I tore apart the turbo and found the unison ring was toast...found it just in time before it seized and trashed the whole unit.
Mind you, I wasn't getting any codes popping up either.
I had about 200k on it at the time. It pulls just fine now.
I had similar symptoms with the lack of low end power and with intermittent skipping...After I hooked it up to the computer I found I had a bad #5 injector (due to a hose leak that fried the electrical connection), I also replaced my up-pipes due to an exhaust leak and while I was in there I tore apart the turbo and found the unison ring was toast...found it just in time before it seized and trashed the whole unit.
Mind you, I wasn't getting any codes popping up either.
I had about 200k on it at the time. It pulls just fine now.
#68
05-26-2016, 06:40 PM
Tuned
I know that right now your focus is on the miss because that's the obvious ditracting issue. But your oil is 20-degrees cooler than you coolant, and so your oil cooler is actually acting as a coolant cooler (since heat flows thru a gradient).
This is a significant issue that shouldn't be ignored.
If it were the other way around, the 20-degree spread would point to an oil cooler issue.
This is a significant issue that shouldn't be ignored.
If it were the other way around, the 20-degree spread would point to an oil cooler issue.
#69
05-26-2016, 08:16 PM
I know that right now your focus is on the miss because that's the obvious ditracting issue. But your oil is 20-degrees cooler than you coolant, and so your oil cooler is actually acting as a coolant cooler (since heat flows thru a gradient).
This is a significant issue that shouldn't be ignored.
If it were the other way around, the 20-degree spread would point to an oil cooler issue.
This is a significant issue that shouldn't be ignored.
If it were the other way around, the 20-degree spread would point to an oil cooler issue.
#70
05-27-2016, 06:12 AM
TinMan, Carolina Rig, and Diesel Dan;
Thank you all for reading my lengthy post and for taking the time to respond. An update to my progress. A few weeks ago my daughter told me her 6.0 2003 Excursion was experiencing very similar running -- no work had been done to hers. I went up to where she lives to try to help. The first thing I noticed when I raised the hood was a large sticker on her alternator that said 100 Amps. I know the factory used 110 Amp so I just figured that this potentially was a problem so I should address obvious things like that. I went to Auto zone and got a 140 Amp alternator, put it on, started it up and it was like a new vehicle. It still is to this day. That was all that I did and it cured all of the ills of the truck.
I checked mine yesterday once I remembered that event. When I first start it I am at 12.8 volts for maybe a minute or so. Then it slowly climbs to 13.1 -- drops 0.1 volts and then climbs, then drops, etc. until it gets to 13.2. It doesn't get beyond 13.2 -- even on the highway. With everything turned on, engine at 190 degrees @2,000 rpms it shows 12.9 -- I held it there for 15-20 seconds and it never changed. I have ordered a new Auto zone 140 amp alternator for mine. Won't likely be here until Tuesday, June 1st. Sounds like an issue that needs to be addressed at any rate.
All my battery connections are great -- no corrosion -- with battery terminal protector spray on them -- I know how critical batteries are. Both batteries are a year and a half old. I have not have them bench tested but that is on my list for the weekend. The FICM is less than 3 months old -- it was aftermarket bone stock. I hope the low voltage didn't mess that up.
That's my update. I appreciate any other insights or thoughts.
Doug
Thank you all for reading my lengthy post and for taking the time to respond. An update to my progress. A few weeks ago my daughter told me her 6.0 2003 Excursion was experiencing very similar running -- no work had been done to hers. I went up to where she lives to try to help. The first thing I noticed when I raised the hood was a large sticker on her alternator that said 100 Amps. I know the factory used 110 Amp so I just figured that this potentially was a problem so I should address obvious things like that. I went to Auto zone and got a 140 Amp alternator, put it on, started it up and it was like a new vehicle. It still is to this day. That was all that I did and it cured all of the ills of the truck.
I checked mine yesterday once I remembered that event. When I first start it I am at 12.8 volts for maybe a minute or so. Then it slowly climbs to 13.1 -- drops 0.1 volts and then climbs, then drops, etc. until it gets to 13.2. It doesn't get beyond 13.2 -- even on the highway. With everything turned on, engine at 190 degrees @2,000 rpms it shows 12.9 -- I held it there for 15-20 seconds and it never changed. I have ordered a new Auto zone 140 amp alternator for mine. Won't likely be here until Tuesday, June 1st. Sounds like an issue that needs to be addressed at any rate.
All my battery connections are great -- no corrosion -- with battery terminal protector spray on them -- I know how critical batteries are. Both batteries are a year and a half old. I have not have them bench tested but that is on my list for the weekend. The FICM is less than 3 months old -- it was aftermarket bone stock. I hope the low voltage didn't mess that up.
That's my update. I appreciate any other insights or thoughts.
Doug
#71
05-27-2016, 10:25 AM
TinMan, Carolina Rig, and Diesel Dan;
Thank you all for reading my lengthy post and for taking the time to respond. An update to my progress. A few weeks ago my daughter told me her 6.0 2003 Excursion was experiencing very similar running -- no work had been done to hers. I went up to where she lives to try to help. The first thing I noticed when I raised the hood was a large sticker on her alternator that said 100 Amps. I know the factory used 110 Amp so I just figured that this potentially was a problem so I should address obvious things like that. I went to Auto zone and got a 140 Amp alternator, put it on, started it up and it was like a new vehicle. It still is to this day. That was all that I did and it cured all of the ills of the truck.
I checked mine yesterday once I remembered that event. When I first start it I am at 12.8 volts for maybe a minute or so. Then it slowly climbs to 13.1 -- drops 0.1 volts and then climbs, then drops, etc. until it gets to 13.2. It doesn't get beyond 13.2 -- even on the highway. With everything turned on, engine at 190 degrees @2,000 rpms it shows 12.9 -- I held it there for 15-20 seconds and it never changed. I have ordered a new Auto zone 140 amp alternator for mine. Won't likely be here until Tuesday, June 1st. Sounds like an issue that needs to be addressed at any rate.
All my battery connections are great -- no corrosion -- with battery terminal protector spray on them -- I know how critical batteries are. Both batteries are a year and a half old. I have not have them bench tested but that is on my list for the weekend. The FICM is less than 3 months old -- it was aftermarket bone stock. I hope the low voltage didn't mess that up.
That's my update. I appreciate any other insights or thoughts.
Doug
Thank you all for reading my lengthy post and for taking the time to respond. An update to my progress. A few weeks ago my daughter told me her 6.0 2003 Excursion was experiencing very similar running -- no work had been done to hers. I went up to where she lives to try to help. The first thing I noticed when I raised the hood was a large sticker on her alternator that said 100 Amps. I know the factory used 110 Amp so I just figured that this potentially was a problem so I should address obvious things like that. I went to Auto zone and got a 140 Amp alternator, put it on, started it up and it was like a new vehicle. It still is to this day. That was all that I did and it cured all of the ills of the truck.
I checked mine yesterday once I remembered that event. When I first start it I am at 12.8 volts for maybe a minute or so. Then it slowly climbs to 13.1 -- drops 0.1 volts and then climbs, then drops, etc. until it gets to 13.2. It doesn't get beyond 13.2 -- even on the highway. With everything turned on, engine at 190 degrees @2,000 rpms it shows 12.9 -- I held it there for 15-20 seconds and it never changed. I have ordered a new Auto zone 140 amp alternator for mine. Won't likely be here until Tuesday, June 1st. Sounds like an issue that needs to be addressed at any rate.
All my battery connections are great -- no corrosion -- with battery terminal protector spray on them -- I know how critical batteries are. Both batteries are a year and a half old. I have not have them bench tested but that is on my list for the weekend. The FICM is less than 3 months old -- it was aftermarket bone stock. I hope the low voltage didn't mess that up.
That's my update. I appreciate any other insights or thoughts.
Doug
My voltages are significantly higher and I haven't done the ground yet (clean, rust-free CA truck). You'll notice a difference with each mod...
Look up the TooManyToys. post, actually I think it might be in the Tech Section now...
Here, I'll make it easy for you:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tery-life.html
#72
05-27-2016, 10:35 AM
#73
05-27-2016, 01:56 PM
Diesel Dan,
I checked out the excellent video from TooManyToys and it helped a great deal. I am not a mechanic nor an engineer so I was wondering if there was a starting point discussion for this upgrade that I could refer to so that I can get more of the basic information. When I read it I keep thinking about getting the punch line of a joke but not the first part of the joke -- so I don't get everything out of it. Is there a primer or starting point that would help lead me to make more sense of the video and the posts that follow. I think I am close but I do not know for sure. Also, where does one get the smaller pulley and is it difficult to swap? Anything I need to aware of?
Thank you
I checked out the excellent video from TooManyToys and it helped a great deal. I am not a mechanic nor an engineer so I was wondering if there was a starting point discussion for this upgrade that I could refer to so that I can get more of the basic information. When I read it I keep thinking about getting the punch line of a joke but not the first part of the joke -- so I don't get everything out of it. Is there a primer or starting point that would help lead me to make more sense of the video and the posts that follow. I think I am close but I do not know for sure. Also, where does one get the smaller pulley and is it difficult to swap? Anything I need to aware of?
Thank you
#74
05-27-2016, 03:18 PM
Diesel Dan,
I checked out the excellent video from TooManyToys and it helped a great deal. I am not a mechanic nor an engineer so I was wondering if there was a starting point discussion for this upgrade that I could refer to so that I can get more of the basic information. When I read it I keep thinking about getting the punch line of a joke but not the first part of the joke -- so I don't get everything out of it. Is there a primer or starting point that would help lead me to make more sense of the video and the posts that follow. I think I am close but I do not know for sure. Also, where does one get the smaller pulley and is it difficult to swap? Anything I need to aware of?
Thank you
I checked out the excellent video from TooManyToys and it helped a great deal. I am not a mechanic nor an engineer so I was wondering if there was a starting point discussion for this upgrade that I could refer to so that I can get more of the basic information. When I read it I keep thinking about getting the punch line of a joke but not the first part of the joke -- so I don't get everything out of it. Is there a primer or starting point that would help lead me to make more sense of the video and the posts that follow. I think I am close but I do not know for sure. Also, where does one get the smaller pulley and is it difficult to swap? Anything I need to aware of?
Thank you
Overdrive 8 Groove Pulley Gain Output Idle in Some Apps Ford Alternator 6g 3G | eBay
Go to GenuineDealz.com and order 0ne of these:
MRBF Fuse Block CFBAR1-250SP Single 1/4 inch Post Fuse Holder Genuinedealz.com
and one of these:
Blue Sea Systems 5180 Battery Terminal Fuse 75 Amp Genuinedealz.com
and then go to their Custom Cables and select 6 gauge red cable, 2' with 1/4" eye connectors on each end and red adhesive heat shrink on those connectors. This goes from your Alt hot, to the fuse and fuse block attached to your pass. battery +.
Now make up another cable in 2 gauge red cable, 6.83 feet long, with same end configurations as above. This cable goes between the two batts pos terminals: on the pass side I used the clamp tightening nut to connect to, since the other lug is used by the extra alt cable. Driver's side is on the lug...
On the Ground cable it depends where you connect from your driver's side frame rail ground point to. Once you determine that you can order a Black cable to fit your truck. If you didn't catch it: cleaning your ground points is as important as anything else. My truck is pristine underneath, and while I will add this last cable, it won't be right away.
My voltages after doing the two hot wires are now in the 14s, often high 14s for the Batt and FICM is 48 and 13.5 - 14. Higher than ever...
How's that for a punchline?!
#75
05-27-2016, 06:15 PM
That fills in the answers to a multitude of questions! I have not gone back to review all that I saw and read, but I think the length of the cable between the batteries -- if I remember correctly -- would be 5.83 feet -- or roughly 70 inches -- not 6.83 feet which would be about 82 inches -- but I could be thinking about something else.
My Excursion has 110K and is in pretty good shape -- I would not use the word pristine but pretty darn good. I weld as a hobby so I am well versed in cleaning things for good contact -- dirt and rust are not my friend!
Thank you for taking the time to walk me through that.
Doug
My Excursion has 110K and is in pretty good shape -- I would not use the word pristine but pretty darn good. I weld as a hobby so I am well versed in cleaning things for good contact -- dirt and rust are not my friend!
Thank you for taking the time to walk me through that.
Doug
Last edited by doug42190; 05-27-2016 at 06:18 PM. Reason: misquoted a fact