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They question the strength of the aluminum. Did anyone else see the video where they had a guy swing a sledge at the rear quarter panel and everyone else in the room laughed at him because he did virtually no damage? I believe it was Edmund's doing the testing. I will have to see if I can find the video tomorrow. I know Ford did some videos where they tested the aluminum as well. Golf *****, slapshots, and baseballs and all much less damage than I expected.
I also note that in the Chevy videos it is "high strength steel" and "aluminum" compared to Ford saying "high strength, military grade, aluminum alloy." Ahhh the beauty of marketing and a slight word change.
There is much brand-loyal smugness in this thread.
Originally Posted by tseekins
Ford should remain silent, continue to build great trucks and watch GM flounder as they grab for the branch in the rapids to save themselves.
Completely agree with the first half of this sentence, no need for anyone to get defensive. Prove your product over time with your customers and negative ads by your competition will lose meaning.
Nobody is floundering away in rapids though, General Motors seems to be doing well of late. Their trucks don't seem to be competitive with the latest generation Fords, but they are cheaper and are still selling plenty. Comparing F-series sales figures to Chevy is a marketing ploy that shouldn't fool anyone. General Motors has a second truck line with their GMC brand, and the latest numbers I've seen show Chevy truck sales combined with GMC sales to exceed Ford's numbers. I'd say they're doing fine.
Originally Posted by paredneck33
The fact is that it really takes NO more time to repair aluminum than it takes to repair steel.
That's not true. It's a more complex process that takes more time and lots more specialized equipment.
Originally Posted by Edmunds.com
Let's take that a step further, though. Assuming that the labor rate for aluminum was the $120 an hour the service advisor told us, and going with our quoted time of 20 hours or body labor to pound that panel out, we're looking at $4,138.44. That's a difference of $1,800, a price increase of nearly 77 percent versus the cost of repairing a steel panel for 10 hours at $60 per hour.
So, based on the individual's perception that aluminum is not as strong as steel, all the guys ran for the steel cage when faced with a grizzly bear. That has to be one of the dumbest ads I've ever seen. Would these same guys refuse to fly in a jet airliner, enter an underwater shark cage or climb a ladder because they're all made of aluminum?
There is much brand-loyal smugness in this thread.
Completely agree with the first half of this sentence, no need for anyone to get defensive. Prove your product over time with your customers and negative ads by your competition will lose meaning.
Nobody is floundering away in rapids though, General Motors seems to be doing well of late. Their trucks don't seem to be competitive with the latest generation Fords, but they are cheaper and are still selling plenty. Comparing F-series sales figures to Chevy is a marketing ploy that shouldn't fool anyone. General Motors has a second truck line with their GMC brand, and the latest numbers I've seen show Chevy truck sales combined with GMC sales to exceed Ford's numbers. I'd say they're doing fine.
That's not true. It's a more complex process that takes more time and lots more specialized equipment.
Tom, they're giving away the truck to sell the truck. It's a great deal for the buyer and I would be happy as a pig in muck to get a huge sum of $$$ off a truck. But, Ford isn't offering much in the way of discounts right now and they're selling very well.
As for brand loyal, guilty as charged sir when it comes down to GM or Ford. I'd sooner be truckless and buy a 5x8 trailer for my Expy than to own a fricken GM truck.
Actually Tom is NOT that much more complex than you think it is. Most shops are capitalizing right now on aluminum repairs. There are some extra steps that do need to be taking when repairing aluminum, but not enough to double the time for the repair. The reason most shops are charging so much more for is to offset the cost for the specialized equipment for the repairs. As a collision tech myself I cringe at the thought of having to purchase dedicated aluminum repair tools and the tool boxes to house them.
They'll charge whatever they want. They feel like Aluminum is the most exotic material used in vehicles it seems. But other than some accidents, how often do people have dents (small or large) taken out of their vehicles especially brand new? If I had to guess probably not a whole lot. At some point an insurance agency might just advise the owner to just total out the vehicle because of the cost and give them money to put towards the same vehicle or different.
I'm guilty of brand loyalty and will bash the crap out of GM. Considering how much bickering goes on social media and the like between Ford master race and GM master race, trying to say they are both good will get you blasted from both sides of the court. Considering this is predominately a Ford site it's a common thing to happen on here. If it has an American badge on it, I'll drive it. If the truck has truck nutz on it, doesn't matter what badge is on it, I'll still laugh at your face.
Actually Tom is NOT that much more complex than you think it is. Most shops are capitalizing right now on aluminum repairs. There are some extra steps that do need to be taking when repairing aluminum, but not enough to double the time for the repair. The reason most shops are charging so much more for is to offset the cost for the specialized equipment for the repairs. As a collision tech myself I cringe at the thought of having to purchase dedicated aluminum repair tools and the tool boxes to house them.
Very interesting Alex, but your explanation makes sense. Cost should go down over time if that proves to be the case as equipment and experience for working on aluminum becomes more common.
Originally Posted by tseekins
Tom, they're giving away the truck to sell the truck. It's a great deal for the buyer and I would be happy as a pig in muck to get a huge sum of $$$ off a truck. But, Ford isn't offering much in the way of discounts right now and they're selling very well.
TrueCar would suggest otherwise. They are showing another $1,000 in factory incentives on the Chevy, but dealers taking more money off the Ford. The two trucks aren't exactly equal, the Ford has a lesser MSRP, but even with the cost disparity there's more of a discount on the Ford.
If that were true it would make a difference to me. I'd happily save thousands and choose the Chevy if it was that kind of price difference. You can take your brand loyalty home and park it in the driveway, I prefer to take mine to the bank.
I think everyone knows this, but I should throw it out anyway. The body material that Ford is using on the F-150 is not really "aluminum", although aluminum is a major component of it. It is an aluminum alloy, with other metals added to enhance its strength.
Ford is using the term "military grade", and that is not 100% true, but is not far off the mark. Aluminum alloys can be pretty amazing materials.
I will also add that I really don't care for the looks of the Chevy/GMC trucks....
I wish Edmonds would have taken a sledge hammer to a 2014 F150 steel sided box and see how much more damage would have occurred. I think that the panel would have taken a lot more damage and probably would have had the whole panel replaced, probably at a higher cost.
Also what did shops do when they had to repair aluminum hoods etc that have been in GM and Ford pickups? Special tools etc?
I think everyone knows this, but I should throw it out anyway. The body material that Ford is using on the F-150 is not really "aluminum", although aluminum is a major component of it. It is an aluminum alloy, with other metals added to enhance its strength.
Ford is using the term "military grade", and that is not 100% true, but is not far off the mark. Aluminum alloys can be pretty amazing materials.
I will also add that I really don't care for the looks of the Chevy/GMC trucks....
I can't remember where but an article I read over a year ago said the alloy they are using the same stuff they use on the Ma Deuce (Browning M2) machine gun turret shield on Humvees and Tanks. If anyone can figure out what alloy those are made from then we'd probably have a good idea what the F150 is now made of.
Very interesting Alex, but your explanation makes sense. Cost should go down over time if that proves to be the case as equipment and experience for working on aluminum becomes more common.
TrueCar would suggest otherwise. They are showing another $1,000 in factory incentives on the Chevy, but dealers taking more money off the Ford. The two trucks aren't exactly equal, the Ford has a lesser MSRP, but even with the cost disparity there's more of a discount on the Ford.
If that were true it would make a difference to me. I'd happily save thousands and choose the Chevy if it was that kind of price difference. You can take your brand loyalty home and park it in the driveway, I prefer to take mine to the bank.
Exactly what I've been posting here about what some of the competition is doing with their truck sales, but as always it seems brand loyalty clouds the eyes. The fact is, for 99% of truck buyers, it's an ego stroker. You don't need 500ft-lbs torque, you don't need 12K towing, and most will see asphalt and the occasional gravel road, while maxing out their payload with 6 bags of groceries. If you want a pickup to enjoy, as the 99% does, RAM and GM are throwing them out there affordably and will have no perceptible difference in capabilities to the average user.
And before anyone goes into the nonsense of "I pull down at least 12 redwood forests a day with my truck" and blah blah blah, remember that by definition, just posting on this forum means you're an enthusiast, a person outside of the 99% of use.
Ford needs to bring the cost down on the trucks to remain competitive over the long term. I personally love the F-150, but I can tell you my next truck will be one of the other two unless they give some major incentives on top of the 1500 Private cash offer I have. There's no point in paying an extra 100$ a month. I should be able to get a crew cab 4x4 with touch screen heated seats and nav for 400/month 0 down on a lease. The others will do it, there's no reason a Ford can't.
07-08-2015, 10:58 PM
