On my list is to investigate the REO status. Meanwhile, I'm in talks with a fellow for a 46 or 47 tonner, which may have the original flatbed. Contact Stu for a picture. Will be getting more later.

 

This one is pretty nice to be thinking of robbing an axle from. Oh wait, that's a different discussion. Of course it wasn't two hours ago I was thinking about doing a M-H conversion to it. Stu

 

Yup. She's a beauty for sure!

 

thanks for posting the pics of the big binder 4x4s, now i gotta start looking for one of those! I was thinking about the rear dual axle question. The first thing I would do is check the rear axle gear ratio. Make sure it matched or was close to what you know to be a true napco front axle. That might end your questions right there. If it does match I don't think you are ever gonna find proof as to how it came to be. Its just gonna be a best guess as to who converted it to drw. Just my opinion. I will also add my thoughts to the front fender question. My 60 F250 factory 4x4 has the narrow lip, I have seen another 60 factory F250 4x4 with the narrow lip. I would agree with Stu in thinking that the wheels that were installed at the factory dictated which fenders went on the truck. Again....just my opinion.

 

You're not agreeing with me. You're agreeing with that 57-63 Chassis Catalog you saw me buy at Iola. It spells out which wheel/tire combo goes with each fender. The only variance would be that the Chassis Catalog makes no mention of the 7.50 x 17" while the NWRA shows it. As you know the 17" and 19.5" are both 34" diameter. Stu

 

Stu has already identified the Timkin B 100 as the correct rear end for the F350. He also noted that the #63700 Budd rear rims are era correct. A couple other things I mentioned is that Napco is cast into the front diff, and the truck was factory painted in Weyerhaeuser's fleet yellow color. Besides all that, I have the PO telling me he spoke face to face with the foreman at Weyerhauser who told him the truck was delivered new as a dually and used that way throughout it's service life. That's why I bought this truck and a nice donor I'm having shipped from Minnesota. It's also quite clear that Napco was in the business of converting Ford trucks up to F600s in 1957, and I've shown you a pic of the 59 GMC with a documented Napco dual wheel 4 x 4 conversion. Not that I can actually "prove" it, and I suppose it can be argued, but I'm going to come out and
say there's pretty good evidence that my truck is a one of a kind special build for a commercial customer.



Thanks to everyone helping with info, and facts and figures. Special public thanks to Stu for mailing me hard copies of the chassis spec's. Absoutely priceless! This is the reason I joined my first-ever forum, to meet guys like you who like to share their particular expertise and pass it down to us new guys.

BTW, I got to see that 1.5 ton REO in person at the ATHS show at Brooks, OR. And, since this discussion has evolved to oversize pickup in general, I'd like to refer back to my profile pictures. Several examples of low production or special-order "big" pickups. The 67 C30 is one of the best. Original paint and interior, original "recalled" 17" split rims, V8, Custom Cab. How many of these you think there were? Or are left? See the write-up in Vintage Truck magazine Nov/Dec 2013.

 

Where to start?

First, Mark. Hope my above response didn't come across as smart axxed. The point was that I try not to post opinions. You know me better than anybody here, so I hope that came across.

Dan - do you have your own wing at VT headquarters? I went back and checked out your C30 in the Nov/Dec '13 issue. Original unrestored, yikes! With the wrecks us M-H guys haul home we don't know how that could be possible.

Please explain your statement about "recalled" 17s. Looking at the pictures in VT, and looking them up in my books, I don't see why they'd have been recalled, and haven't heard of it. But, that said, I don't pay as much attention to GM wheels as I do others. Grigg Mullen over on the Stovebolt.com site is the GM wheel resource so I butt out.

Best I can tell the wheels are 17" x 5" having the Firestone/K-H "Late AR" three piece outer rims. They have 7/16" offset. K-H #30013, Chevy #3684454, NWRA cross reference code X-45035. The AR rim design was used by K-H for a lot of years. There was an early and late AR design as shown below.

There was a recall effort pushed during the 1970s by Ralph Nader and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS). It focused on the Firestone RH-5° and Goodyear KB and KW demountable designs. It failed in 1980, although the manufacturers had agreed in the early '70s to stop producing these designs. I find an IIHS reference to GM single piece wheel failures (15" and 16" sizes) due to inner bead seat failure, but nothing about the AR three piece designs. Is there more to know? Below are the AR designs. Stu

Late:



Early:

 

No worries Stu, it came across as it should have. You know I'm flyin by the seat of my pants most of the time. Its like trying to herd cats around here. You have brought up another question though. I dont recall knowing of a 17 inch wheel for a 57-60 F series anything. 15, 16, 17.5 and 19.5 should cover the 100, 250 and 350s. Unless it was a wheel for the 6 lug F350?

And Dan or Mr. Napco, I'm not argueing the point of it not being transformed into an awd dually by napco, just saying that I doubt you will ever find "proof". One thing I would ask of you is to see if your napco has cab braces by the doorjamb down at the floor. I use to believe ford installed them on all factory 4x4s but have since seen them on two 58 Marmon Herringtons which makes me wonder if Mh started this and Ford followed. If your napco has them then it would seem that if the Ford factory knew it was going to become a awd that it left the factory with the braces.

 

Yes, the 17" is a 6 x 7.25" for the tonner model.

Your point about the cab bracing is a good one. Those missing braces have been the give away sign to many back yard 59/60 conversions that were claimed to be factory 4x4s. This is also an area where Bill has spoken truth on the subject a number of times. Wonder if the Napco has braces? I'll see if I can find a picture. If you have one from your truck please post it. Stu

Edit - here it is.

 

All 1953/66 F350's came with 6 lug wheels on a 7.25" bolt circle. 1967 was the first year for the F350's 8 lug 6.50" bolt circle wheel that was also used (except with DRW) on F250's.

 

I briefly owned a jeep m715 with 17" 6 lug on 7.25 offset wheels. Lock ring style. All the jeep literature said the m715 was equipped with 900 x 16" . I am positive of the size 7.50 x 17 on that truck. Not sure what they originally came off, but I do know of those four.....

 

Thanks for posting the brace pic Stu, I was gonna but jr. informed me that its not in photobucket and I wasnt going outside tonight. Ryan is the one who caught the cab brace on the 58 MH F600 in the boneyard. Go figure, him spotting something I overlook. And then there was the 57 or 58 F100 MH that was on cl a while back that also had them. If the napco has them whats that mean? That Ford knew it was gonna get some cab flex due to the impending AWD conversion and installed the braces on the line? If the napco doesnt have them it would seem MH started the process and Ford continued it in 59 and 60?

One other thing on the fenders, iirc you said the book has 3 different styles but in my mind there should be 4.
1. wide lip small opening
2. wide lip big opening
3. narrow lip big opening
4. the really big super duty big job fenders

Your thoughts?

 

No clue. The ones I cited are the ones in the catalog. Maybe Bill has more references that would show the other. Are you absolutely sure there were four? Stu

 

-----------

 

Thanks Bill, I gotta figure out a way to save that. So I see a total of 5 different fenders for the 57-60 trucks. 2 for the 57-58 and 2 for the 59-60. Then there is 1 that covers the 57-60 F700/F1100. My first thought was that the narrow lip didnt come in until 59, but then it dawned on me that I have a 58 narrow lip fender out in the shed. Now I'm thinking it must be 57-58 wide lip and narrow lip. And 59 and 60 wide lip and narrow lip. Then the 57-60 F700/F1100. If I'm correct, something must have changed in the thought process from 58 to 59. The 58 narrow lip would have been on a 17.5 wheel truck and in 59 the 17.5 wheel truck would have had the wide lip fender. 59 and 60 narrow lip trucks would have been sporting 19.5s, 20s or 22.5s

Seems it has more to do with the lip and not the opening. Many thanks to Stu and Bill for shining a big light on this for me. I think I may finally have it figured out.