Hey guys,

I currently have a 2006 6.0 and on the 6.0 side of this forum. Im looking to get into a newer truck and kinda been looking at the 6.4s. I was hoping to get some input from you guys about the 6.4s. The goods and the bads. What are some of the most common problems that they have.

Thanks in advance,
Andy

 

Welcome here. You'll get a lot of varying opinions here. A little search will likely bring you many results of others in the same situation, deciding whether to upgrade or not. But from one who had a 6.0L I consider my upgrade to a 2008 6.4L to be worthwhile. Some of the bigger problems were rocker arm failures, high pressure fuel pump failures due to water contamination in fuel, and the DPF causing fuel dilution in engine oil. But like anything, a little preventive maintenance can go a long way. Drain water separator monthly, avoid interrupting DPF regens, (or have a delete done) and keeping good clean oil in crankcase...

I'm sure there'll be some more knowledge, more fluent individuals chiming in before long. But some of the things I really like about the 08 is the refined interior by design and comfort. The 08 being much quieter in the cab. While the 06 had 560lb/ft of torque the 08 boasts 650lb/ft.

NEXUS 4. IB AutoGroup

 

The 08+ trucks ride beautiful.
Wonderful quiet ride.

IMHO the 6.4 engine is the strongest diesel engine ever offered.
What other engine can handle tuning so well? A lot of guys running insane tuning with little trouble or little modifications. Also the 5r110 transmission is pretty stout too.
They are great trucks, and although they have some shortfalls and problems, so do 6.0's, 6.7's etc.

The thing I really hate about newer diesels is that they are hard for the backyard mechanic to work on, but oh well, I don't have much time for that stuff anyways.

I would say a deleted 6.4 truck holds up just as good as any other common rail engine. If not better.

 

Maintaince is the best answer.

 

This is what I was looking for. My friend found a 2010 king ranch with 49k and think I will tell him to pull the trigger and spartanize it. I still love my truck.

 

I've got 111K on my '09 F350 6.4 KR LB DRW and I still love it. The problems I've had have been modest and handled well by my dealer mostly under warranty.

Early on (first month or so) the A/C leaked refrigerant, and that was a quick leak fix and recharge at the dealer, no issues since then. The front axle seals popped loose, again a quick fix with the redesigned seals. The common blend door motor issue, another quick fix. Leaking radiator hose O-rings, common, not warranty but not the end of the world. I did have a cracked DPF at about 26K, which I had replaced under warranty at about 48K.

That's about it up to a few months ago when I started getting the dreaded death wobble a bit past 100K. It took the dealer a while to sort out, ultimately with some backline support from Ford who said to decrease the caster a lot. That did it, no more death wobble and no noted change to handling or tire wear. If the death wobble comes back I expecit it will be time to replace all the steering and suspension joints anyway.

Mostly keeping a 6.4 happy is a matter of ****-retentive maintenance. Trying to save perhaps $200/yr on filters and oil isn't worth the risk.

My standard 6.4 advice I've compiled over the almost 6 years I've had my truck:

The 6.4 does not typically "self destruct", in many cases it is aided in destructing by operator who do not understand the requirements of the new emissions controlled diesels and use them for the wrong type of service, neglect maintenance, etc. Properly operated and maintained the 6.4 and other emissions controlled diesels do just fine.

Now if you are looking at a used one, you have to be concerned about it's useage and maintenance prior to your purchase. Unlike pre-emissions diesels the post-emissions diesels can go bad very quickly if they are neglected or are used for all short trips.

The problem with assessing a used post-emissions diesel is that much of what you want to inspect is not readily visible. On the 6.4 you would ideally want to inspect the following:

- Lower HFCM fuel filter and housing for signs of gunk buildup, and to ensure the filters have been changed.

- Upper fuel filter, looking in the bottom of the housing for signs of rust spots or metal flakes both of which can mean expensive fuel system repairs.

- The water pump back housing for signs of cavitation damage.

- Coolant nitrite test to see if the coolant has been maintained properly.

- Used oil analysis on a sample with ~5k miles on it.

- Check for signs of leaks at the radiator hose connections and the radiator itself.

Since a used vehicle at a dealer has probably recieved a basic service with new oil and filters, some of the information you want will not be available at all.
Clearly the water pump housing can not be inspected in any reasonable fashion. The lower HFCM filter and housing can't be inspected without draining a quart plus of fuel and making a mess so it's not easily inspected.
The upper fuel filter can be inspected fairly easily with a flashlight, wrench and a container to rest the filter in when removed. This is one inspection you should absolutely do since a high pressure fuel pump and injectors is a good $8k repair.
The coolant nitrite test is another quick and easy test you can do, clip a test strip on the end of a long hemostat and just dunk it in the coolant degas tank, wait the 45 seconds and compare the color chart. Most dealers probably won't change the coolant on a used truck so it your nitrite test shows under 300ppm nitrite, reject the truck for neglected maintenance.

My standard maintenance recommendations for the 6.4:

If you have not owned one of the newer emissions controlled diesels previously (any brand), be aware that they are far more dependent on proper maintenance than earlier diesels.

Key 6.4 maintenance items:

* Oil changes every 5,000 miles, with quality oil (synthetic recommended), used oil analysis (Blackstone) for every change. Use only Motorcraft oil filters or the Racor (OEM) equivalent.

* Fuel filter changes every 10,000 miles. Use only Motorcraft FD4617 or the Racor (OEM) equivalent filters.

* Coolant nitrite testing at least every 15,000 miles. I recommend every 5,000 miles at the same time you do the oil change for simplicity, the test strips are inexpensive. Do not be confused by the test directions warning not to sample from an overflow tank, the 6.4 does not have an overflow tank it has a degas bottle. The degas bottle is part of the coolant loop with constant circulation so it is a valid testing point. I do not bother "taking a sample", I simply clip the test strip on the end of a long hemostat and dunk it in the degas bottle to test. If the test is below 800ppm and above 300ppm add two bottles of VC-8 additive. If below 300ppm the entire coolant system must be flushed with VC-9 cleaner, rinsed well and refilled with new coolant.

* Cooling system flush with VC-9 and refill with Ford Gold coolant every 60,000 miles, sooner if you have neglected testing and the nitrite is under 300ppm.

* Use a quality fuel conditioner such as the Ford PM-22a/23a conditioners at every fueling. They add lubricity to the fuel, something that ULSD is lacking in which helps protect the high pressure (up to 26,000 PSI) fuel pump. They also help to reduce soot production which results in less frequent DPF regens and less fuel dilution in the engine oil.

* Drain the HFCM water separator monthly. The fuel drained can be poured back into the tank carefully leaving behind any water at the bottom of the collection jar (normally very little). If the water separator drain does not flow well or at all, it may be clogged with either parafin blobs or with bacterial growth. In either case at a minimum the drain valve cover needs to be removed and the clog cleared. If the clog is significant the HFCM cover needs to be removed for full cleaning. If the clog is white and waxy it's parafin and not a significant issue. If the clog is brown or similar and more slimy it is bacterial growth and the fuel tank should be "shocked" with a biocide such as Power Service Bio-Kleen which should not be confused with their Diesel-Kleen.

* The truck should not be used for all short trips and stop and go traffic. The 6.4 and other emissions controlled diesels need regular longer periods at highway speeds to allow proper DPF regeneration and to get to proper operating temperature to help reduce fuel contamination in the engine oil.

* The latest PCM flash (11B23) does not provide continuous indication of when a DPF regen is taking place, it does however add much improved engine monitoring for developing issues. Over time you will get to recognize the subtle changes, but I recommend adding something like the ScanGauge II which will allow you to monitor the DPF temperature which is a clear indication that a regen is in progress when over ~600F.

* Avoid shutting the truck down with a regen in progress. If you have to, run the engine at high idle for a few minutes in park before shutting down to allow the turbos to cool down to normal temperatures before shutdown. If you are interrupting the regens you will see it in your Blackstone report, otherwise you should see very little fuel dilution, <1%.

You should also absolutely get the Ford ESP extended warranty, any repairs to the 6.4 are expensive and a single big repair can easily cover the cost of the ESP warranty. The coolant nitrite testing that many people overlook *is* in the owner's manual diesel supplement, so if you neglect it Ford can deny warranty coverage for resulting damage.

Other Super Duty maintenance items:

* Batteries - The batteries in these trucks are not the maintanence free / unmaintainable type, pop the caps to check and top up with distilled water periodically.

* Change transfer case fluid every 60,000 miles.

* Change rear differential fluid every 50,000 miles on DANA axles (F350 DRW and up).

* Change transmission fluid and filter every 60,000 miles on Torqshift transmissions (100k on manual transmissions). If you have the early Torqshift with the external filter the interval is much shorter.

Resources:

Coolant test strips - Buy the 4pk, not the bottle of 50, the strips have expiration dates and you'll only need <10 per year. Most dealer parts counters should have the test strips, NAPA has them, or order direct from Acustrip.
Ford Rotunda 328-2050
Ford Rotunda CTS-3 3-Way HD Antifreeze


The Ford Rotunda 328-2050 (CTS-3) series of test strips provides a fast and simple manner for testing SCA and freeze point in antifreeze coolant. Test your coolant frequently to protect against liner pitting, corrosion and coolant dilution. This three-way test strip measures Glycol, Molybdate and Nitrite. The Specific ranges are as follows:
Nitrite 0 - 3200 ppm
Molybdate 0 - 1000 ppm
Glycol 0 - 60%


Used oil testing - Blackstone Labs, get the pre-paid 6pk of test kits to save a few bucks. You don't need the TBN option:
Blackstone Labs

Ford ESP extended warrantys - You can buy them online from real dealers, or use the online price from a real dealer to negotiate a better price from your local dealer. You absolutely want the ESP, while the 6.4 is not problematic as some claim as long as you maintain it properly, nearly any repair is big $ and one good one will cover the ESP cost:
Ford Extended Warranty | Genuine Ford ESP | Discounted Pricing

DPF, oil, coolant temp monitoring - ScangaugeII, you will need to program the X-gauge commands for the 6.4:
ScanGauge - Trip Computer + Digitial Gauges + ScanTools
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Specific : Linear Logic : Home of the ScanGauge

 

I couldn't agree more, I love the way my 09 drives and how quiet it is in the cab..

 

Hey everyone,
A couple quick questions about purchasing a diesel. The diesel mechanic i go to suggested i purchase a diesel with a blown engine (with the rest of the truck being solid) if i wanted to buy my first diesel inexpensively. Well I found a 2010 that needs an engine rebuild....anyone know what i can expect to pay for a rebuild and what kind of warranty i should expect? Should i get any upgrades done while the engine is being replaced? (The truck has about 190k on it and is for sale for about 7k..lariat edition etc)...any advice or opinions would be great...thanks!!

 

Ok this can be good and bad. I have actually done this several times with great success but you really have to know what your looking for and understand the cost you will have into the truck. I don't recommend this for the guy that thinks he can go thru a motor for less then 8,000.

A lot of people can easily get baited by people selling used engines. Used engines run from 6,000 to 9,000 and the price is usually based on the miles on the truck. The biggest issues with this you don't really know what your getting and the warranties usually are 30-60 days which most people burn up just getting the engine installed. I have heard horror story's of guys spending 8 to 9K on a engine that is supposed to only have 30,000 miles and come to find out it was a high milage engine that had been molested, shined up and was nothing but a polished turd. The problem is now your back where you started and all that money could have been invested into a reman engine is now gone. Can you sue the company? absolutely but thats just more money spent and chances are this is a truck you need to have running not something that can be sitting in litigation for 2 or more years. Last but not least you have an engine that could fail at anytime.

The next issue is making sure you are buying a truck with a clean title. I see a lot of people get talked in a rebuilt title. Is there anything wrong with a rebuilt title, no providing you understand what your getting into. The resale will never be the same so you have to consider that into what your willing to spend. Some warranty companies will not warranty or offer extended warranties on these type of titles. Be-ware of flood damaged vehicles with this type of title. A flood damage truck can have a lot more damage then just a bad engine. I would strongly recommend finding a clean title doing a carfax and pulling an oasis from your local dealer when purchasing a used truck like this.

I usually find 2008-2010 F-350's and F-450's around 90,000 to 120,000 miles the most common issues's seem to be cylinder number 7 has a injector that hung open and caused the cylinder to hydro-lock and bend the connecting rod, or the owner had a tunner that melted the engine down. Either way the owner's are faced with a 15-18K repair bill and end up wholesaling the trucks for dirt cheap to just walk away.

As far as the cost involved to repair one of these trucks, the last one i did i purchased the truck for 3500.00, 09 F-450 4x4 king ranch with 110,000 miles, by the time i was done i had about 18-20K invested in the truck with the original purchase price of the truck. I completely went thru the engine and trans. Replaced all the intercooler hoses, water hoses, T-stats, front cover and fan belts. Then i inspected the front end and replace and worn parts, sealed up any leaks found , i pulled the axles and replaced all the inner seals and outer seals. The last thing i did was replace all the tires. I have a few friends that think i could have bought a used truck for as much as i had invested which i probably could have, but this truck is basically a new truck, compared to the price tag of new equivalent F-450's coming in at 65-75K i think i came out well ahead of the game.

I do all my own assembly, i have a awesome machine shop top notch has a lot of experience figuring out engine problems and issues. Anyone who says the 6.4 is a perfect engine is not aware of the issues or has not ran the engine enough to figure them out. One of the rebuilds i completed now has 265,000 miles problem free. The miles is nothing, the engine has 8,300 hours on it. The truck has almost 400K on it and not one single rattle or clunk. The engine has little to no blow-by nothin like what ford says is normal.

A little off topic but I have a 2010 F-550 that only has 32,000 miles on a factory replaced engine under warranty that has excessive blow-by in my opinion but ford says its normal. I don't buy the whole 6.4 was built with loose rings to accommodate for high regen temps after seeing a well built engine. IMO the factory pistons and rings, the factory cam, factory lifters , the factory valve guides.....lol there are none, head bolts and the machine work on the surface of the heads and blocks are less then desirable. All things that can be improved on and have a very reliable engine.

IMO, this is a way to get into a great truck at reasonable cost, but its not something that can be done cheap, if you try to due it cheap i don't think you will have a pleasant experience.

 

You might want to look at the 6.0 trucks. More of them out there, and the 6.0 is a good motor to learn on with it being your first diesel. A 7.3 would be better, but those are getting old, and ones that are for sale, are pricey.

 

An 05 king ranch with blown head gaskets can be had for less than 7 grand... Throw 8-10 grand into it and there you go... You can turn around and sell it for 24 grand or more as long as you built the engine right. (It will cost more to have a shop do it due to labor, but you will still come out on top as long as you get the truck itself for the right price.)

 

I have a few friends that have a 7.3 and they rave about them....but the queation i have is how many miles is too many? 250k...300k? Of course im sure alot of it depends on the maintenance done but most of the 7.3s im finding have between 200 and 300k and cost anwhere between 8 and 12k...in your opinion, do you think thats too much to be spending? Btw..i am not into super performance or racing or anything..i just want a solid reliable truck...

 

I have seen some cheaper 05 to 06 lariats for sale with some issues....one had a coolant leak on the drivers side...i understand that alot of the 6.0 lariats had radiator issues...sight unseen, what kind of potential issues are coolant leaks? How expensive can they get and worst case scenario, financially what can they cost to repair....potential engine damage etc?

 

Any of these you get into a 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 remember there all electronic, while an experienced guy can work around that and usually identify the problem having the ford IDS software and Diag equipment sure makes life easy and repair cost at a minimum. Is it expensive....lol yeah but if you work on these alot its well worth the investment.

Years of 6.0's
03-04.5 FAIR would be the most problematic
04.5-05 BETTER
06-early 07 BEST

The 6.0 is relatively cheap to work on. I have never had to get into the short block of one in our fleet, all the problems we experienced where from the block up. The highest milage 6.0 engine we had was around 325,000. We still have one 6.0 that has 150,000 miles all the rest have been upgraded to 6.4's. Maintenance is key on these engine since there HEUI engines. We changed our oil every 3,000 miles or every month. Fuel filters where changed every other oil change.

The HEUI style injectors suffer from stiction if maintenance is not keep up. The injectors rarely go bad all at once and even then they will set you back about 2000-2400 for a set of 8. But in general you replace them as you have issues and replacing a set is uncommon unless they are high milage and physically worn out. I strongly recommend sticking to the factory ford or international injectors. What ever you do DONT buy anything associated with alliant power products, you can get there injectors around 1,400-1,600 but there JUNK. The reuse the keepers, clips and solenoids and electrical harness , i have had nothing but issues with there products on any ford7.3, 6.0s, 6.4 and numerous other cat engines.
The Injectors can be done in about 4-6 hrs its really not hard. The most important thing to look is the oil supply tubes that go into the injectors, if its high milage you usually have to replace the cups in the high pressure manifold. The second very important things is to properly torque the the injector retaining bolts. I have been a lot of guys cowboy this and just tighten them only to have them back out a couple hundred miles or less down the road, the engine usually hydro-locks from fuel if your lucky all you have to due is pull the injector out, turn the engine over to pump the fuel out of the cylinder, re torque the injector and away you go. If you go this route i would pop the high pressure oil pump cover and check the STC fitting and make sure it has been updated.

The heads are not that bad you can get a good reman set around 2,200-2,500 that have been cut for an o-ring. If you have a head gasket issue, get the heads resurfaced and make sure they do it right or you choose a reputable shop. Also make sure the block deck is checked and within specs.

Its a rarity to find one that was run out of oil and has lower end problems, the biggest reason being as soon as the low pressure oil pump stops feed the high pressure oil pump the truck stops from lack of fuel. Sometimes these engine lose the low pressure oil pump. Generally a small piece of metal gets between the gear pump and the front cover causing damage to the cover and loss of low oil pressure. The fix is replacing the front cover and oil pump, the last one i did i believe the parts and the kit where around 700-800.

Another issue you may run into is a bad FICM. There is company that sells some really good upgraded parts called bullet proof diesel, they sell the upgraded FICM's and EGR coolers i believe they cary a life time guarantee. The coolers are around 400 and i think the FICMS are around 650-700.

 

As you said, maintenance is the key. When you get into that many miles, other issues can and will come up. Suspension parts wearing out, rust, etc. I would not be afraid of a 7.3 with 300,000 miles on it. Injectors may need to be replaced. If the tranny is original, I'd plan on getting that replaced or rebuilt. A good rebuild will run at least $2000.00. Also, it very likely will have at least one small drip, somewhere.