Money is soso because this wont be a buy the truck Wednesday parts delivered friday work all weekend and mobday drive it out of my garage with 400+ hp. My cousin did his truck in a little over a year changing this and that while he was driving it randomly during the week

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Thats good info and means you won't be ordering a crate Coyote 5.0L to drop in. So where do you see your build going? Starting with big displacement or going with a smaller block? Gotta give us something to build off of rather than random ideas from across the spectrum. My personal favourite suggestion from this thread so far to keep costs reasonable would be the 'Cleaver.'

 

Yea im really liking that clevor idea also. So the look is on for a short bed regular cab with 5.8

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I may have made that sound simpler then it is, special attention must be paid to the pistons to make sure they clear the valves. Pistons are rather easy to source, they just need to be replaced, at which point a rebuild should be done. But I'd think this a good idea anyway given how worn the engine you buy is likely to be.

Given 3 facts, you're taking your time, 5.8 2WD RCSB are very rare, and the engine will take a fair amount of work. I'd recommend picking up a likely much cheaper and available 5.0 truck then building a Clevor and swapping it in when ready.

I'd also think it a safe assumption you want a good looking engine bay, this also gives an opportunity to clean and paint it.

Maybe in between buying the truck and swapping in the Clevor slap on some nitrous for some fun with what ya got, then it can be put on the Clevor when you do the swap.

Here is the intake adapter kit that will allow any 351W manifold to go on a 351 Clevor so you can use a stock type intake. http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/...apter_kit.html

 

I will completely DISAGREE with you. That is the beauty of a EFI engine. They will compensate and recalibrate fro some real drastic changes and that is what makes them so daily driver friendly . Now carburated is just like you described

 

Using the term "Yea im really liking that clevor idea"and "Money is soso" are mutually exclusive. Using Cleveland heads on your Windsor will require more money than using Windsor style heads. If nothing else the cost of custom headers will negate any potential power advantage those Cleveland may produce for the money spent.

Forget the trick Cleveland headed build, stick to Windsor style aftermarket heads.

 

That's basically what I was going to say. With today's aluminum Windsor heads, you can flow as much or more as a stock Cleveland head, without the hassle of trying to find an intake to use on the clevor (which edelbrock makes now so you don't need to source an old b&a intake) but will allow you to use a more common Windsor mustang style efi intake, or any number of carb intakes.
It's just not worth the work to the stock heads, and the cost to rebuild the heads, only to have an iron head. It's the cool factor as to why I own one. Nothing I need in a pickup though.

 

I'm with Brad here. I've been around, driven and ridden in all kinds of hopped up cars and trucks and they are easy to modify as long as you take a little time to understand what you're doing. Sure, some EFI systems are easier to work with than others, which may be a problem if you have to stay emissions legal, but we're talking about Fords here and the MAF eec-iv is a pretty amazing system all in all. For a 350-400 hp build it's well within the limits of the factory stuff. All you have to do is choose your parts well and since the mustang guys run the 302 and the 351 there's lots of good combo's out there.

I remember back in the 90's growing up when everyone had a fox body mustang and you used to have rising rate FMU's to run a blower and stuff like that. Sledge hammer tuning at best but it worked. I do remember a guy who had an speed density mustang and he put some old school "3/4 race" flat tappet cam in the car and it ran and sounded like dog poo. I doubt it would have even worked with a MAF setup. He ripped all the EFI stuff off the car and blamed EFI for killing performance, yada-yada-yada... Once he was up and running again a friend of mine beat him with an E-303 cammed car with an off road H-pipe, gears and flowmasters.

The guy I bought one of my Supercabs off of has a LS powered Trans Am and it runs like crap because it's got a non-efi cam in it. His options are to switch to a carb or run an open loop setup. That's something I wouldn't recommend for a street car, but even that can be made to work well. Hell, I met a guy once that made a driver out of a mechanical FI car with one hell of a custom barrel valve and lots of other tricks. For those that don't know, the old Hilborn setups were only meant for idle and WOT.

EFI stuff just simply works and I know people who did Moates EFI stuff back in the day when you had to develop your own tune and it didn't take long to have a running driving car. Cold start was the only thing that was any kind of problem and that's simply because you have such a small window to tune in before you have to wait for the car to get cold again. Now a days you can get a canned tune that's close enough and tune from there with a wide band o2. You can make changes and adjustments that are unheard of with a carb. I still want to to a megasquirt setup and run an EDIS setup with a tone wheel so I can control spark advance and fuel delivery down to the individual cylinders. Not that I have any real need to but it's just cool to be able to do it.

My advice to the OP is don't get too creative. Run MAF for sure and then find a tried and true combo and don't get too crazy with the cam selection. If you want to spend some money then build a stroker so you have the torque to move a heavy truck. A 302 powered truck with MAF will work and you can always swap a 351 in later, just remember that the trans is different, so you have a choice. Build the 4r70w to work or swap in an E4OD. Or get a manual equipped truck and run a Tremec 500/600 trans. Sure, it's a little bit of money but it'd be one hell of a truck.

 

That is where I was going with this. As you know, the stock 302 block is not what one would consider strong. I don't see any point in going all motor on something like that. You can stuff a stout rotating assembly into a fragile block and turn that rotating assembly into scrap metal in a hurry.

Boost is not that expensive. You can pick up a Vortech kit for cheap far less than a motor build, less than $2,000. Granted this is a Mustang kit but it can be done.

 

Money, can't really say Clevor vs. Windsor, it's about the how. Of course a stock iron W head is cheapest. If doing a rebuild anyway, a stock iron head Clevor can be cost effective HP. If buying aluminum heads, available for Clevor from Edelbrock, your spending big bucks on heads either way.

Yeah they're are some really good W heads but nothing changes the basic design issues of in-line valves and low small exhaust ports. I'd say if going for very high compression, too much for the OP, or a turbo, then maybe a W head is preferred to prevent needing a huge dome to get the CR, or with a turbo smaller exhaust is preferred.

Flow of a top end W vs stock C, well yeah. But port and enlarge the C and you beat the W for the same money.

The intake issue is solved and even bettered. With the available adapters a Clevor can use a huge variety of intakes. I'm assuming the OP will want to stay EFI and can use any number of 5.8W EFI manifolds. And get the added benefit of removing the manifold from heat sources. With the C heads and adapter no oil or coolant is in contact with the manifold heating it.

Also I think I can say 98% there is no need for custom headers, I mentioned my answer to that to. In the early 80s(same basic truck) 351M/400s were installed in these trucks, they use a C head. So one of the headers available for those trucks should fit with two issues. A bung for the O2 sensor will need to be added. And the deck height will be .7" lower. Hard to say how much of an effect that will have, but I'd think any issue solvable. A guy on this forum told me he used 351/400 headers on a 351C in one of these trucks. That the headers fit except they hit the bell housing. But that's with a 351C, it's an inch lower on the deck height then a 351M/400. Nor he didn't say which headers he used or how much he had to bend them to fit.

Anyway, I put the idea out there, just thought I'd defend it.

 

I wasn't saying the block is weak, I was talking about performance issues. Compared to some it's weak, but I'd think a stock long block will handle boost well enough to handle as much as can be done with pump fuel. Case in point, back in the day when I was working at a performance shop we got a 5.0 mustang due to non payment. It had minor upgrades and 140K on it. Just for kicks we tossed a lot of nitrous at it to see what it would do. When I quit it had 3 stages, I forget the HP number but it did low 12s. FWIW while there I handled a fair amount of 5.0s with Vortechs, it's a good combo.

I'm biased and opinionated but I just love big healthy high CR engines. When standing next to the front tire you can feel it in your legs at idle. Where a slight tap of the throttle will spin the engine faster then the tach can keep up and rock the vehicle to the side.

Back in the day when I was a teenager I built a 10.5CR 350SBC and put it in a CJ5. With a decent cam, headers dumping out the sides, and most of all a 1000CFM projection system it was insane. That thing revved so fast it almost flipped over. With that EFI system I could put it in high gear idling along at like 10MPH then slam my foot to the floor and it would make this sucking noise, stall out for a split second, then take off with the front end in the air like you jabbed a hot poker up it's ****.

 

The 302/351w limit is about 450-500hp at the crank before it does crank-o-eject-o...

Maybe we're all over thinking this. Get a RC/SB 5.0 MAF truck, get a late 90's explorer 5.0 and drop it in with the gt40 heads and bolt a blower with an intercooler on it. Upgrade the fuel system to match and your done. ~7psi should hit 300 at the wheels, so 10 psi or so should do it.

 

If you're going to go smallblock, why even consider a 302 when a 351 uses nearly every accessory that a 302 does. You're upgrading intake and stuff anyway, so the minimal difference there is between the two, is negligible because you're buying parts. The 351 block is also stronger, and can be increased to a whopping 427, which if you play it right, could just pop in a 460 computer and drive it until you get tuning software.
Even a 393 stroker would be more than sufficient to make some serious hp.

But as far as people saying the 302 is a weak block, I run 10psi boost and made 400whp, and then gave it a 100shot of nitrous. That's well over 550crank hp and it loved it for over a year. When I bumped it up to 150shot, I didn't have the tune quite right (last minute dragsstrip adjustment) and popped the head gasket...The stock style felpro head gasket that comes with the $99 gasket set.
In my experience, I've cracked a block from the cam to the crank, I've broke a crank at the thrust bearing, I've put a rod through the pan and I've melted holes in pistons... But that was when something wasn't right with how it was built (inferior parts) or just poor tuning, or some other part failed and then quickly damaged the engine.
These things handle quite a bit of power. It's the oversight of something that allows these things to fail early.

 

I think you're over estimating your crank HP. For 400whp I'd expect somewhere between 450-475 crank hp depending on the driveline. Over 450-500 you're pushing your luck. If you're going to spend the money to get to those levels or beyond and you're going to rebuild everything at the start, consider using a stronger block.

 

Umm, you reinforced my point by giving me an extra 25hp above what I said.
I never dyno'd my car with the 100hp nitrous, but I've dyno'd customers mustangs with 100shot, and it gave 90hp to the tires.
So me saying 400whp just with boost, I was going with easy numbers and probably should have said 530hp, but with my 90whp of nitrous, I figured I'd round a little. But anyway, I am confident I had 550crank hp after I was all done.

Either way, I'd build a 351 and not mess with the 302. So much more potential.