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  #1  
Old 07-02-2014, 01:11 AM
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Turbo stall? Opinions needed.

Well I just towed 1300 miles to and from from Sioux Falls SD, 25k gross. Stopped and saw Darin for a while which was fun, lots of rain and flooding along the way. Truck did great other than 2 issues, first was an algae or water issue with fuel for the first 100 miles or so.

The second happened about 90 miles from home on the way back. I was just about to start heading up the mountain pass when I heard what I thought was a boost leak. I stopped and checked boots and all, couldn't find anything. Turbo just sounded different all of a sudden, same as when I blew a boot before. So I headed up the mountain, pulled great, plenty of power but I had a sudden boost drop when I was in 3rd at about 3400 rpm which is in the yellow portion on the rpm gauge. Boost was about 24lbs and dropped right off. Also noticed that at around 20lbs I had a small amount of flutter in the needle. I didn't mean to rev quite that high, but with traffic an all, it got away from me.

Also shortly after putting in the RiffRaff wheel, it seems like the truck is smoking more and is about 4 or 5 lbs lower on boost. When I initially tested the wheel, it cleaned up smoke and I got about 29-30lbs of boost. I also never had the boost drop off like that during testing.

I replaced the MAP sensor and ICP before this trip for a MAP code and surging idle when hot. At WOT towing I see 41% DC and 2900psi.

When I got home I tested further and got repeatable results. In 3rd or 4th near redline at WOT, boost will drop off, can't tell if I can hear surge/flutter when it goes down or not. I even took the air filter off for a quick test and same result. I pulled IC pipes and boots and checked them over, boots are all good, clamps were all tight. I did notice some water in the cold side pipe, I'm assuming condensation build up.

Wheel still looks new, no play in the shaft except the normal tiny amount of side to side.

I'm kind of at a loss, I still need to do a pressure test to rule out any boost leaks for sure, but everything looks fine and if there is a leak it ain't much.

Sorry for the long post, any help would be appreciated.

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-1997 F-350 XLT 4x4,7.3 PSD,ZF5,227,000 miles,6637 intake,SD 7.3 Intercooler,F5 DP-Tuner chip,3" DP,4" Diamond Eye exhaust,EBPV delete,IH bellowed up-pipes,Beans D66 turbo,Southbend SMF/clutch kit,Autometer gauges,6.0 fan.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:00 AM
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Would floating your valves cause it to do that? And you always get to haul cool stuff around!
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:08 AM
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Thanks Gabe, not sure but that should make the truck stumble, and not hold rpm I would think. It will stay at red line, just drops boost all at once.
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-1997 F-350 XLT 4x4,7.3 PSD,ZF5,227,000 miles,6637 intake,SD 7.3 Intercooler,F5 DP-Tuner chip,3" DP,4" Diamond Eye exhaust,EBPV delete,IH bellowed up-pipes,Beans D66 turbo,Southbend SMF/clutch kit,Autometer gauges,6.0 fan.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:47 AM
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I'm glad you stopped to visit and made it back ok Chris. I've looked a couple times at your truck, but haven't noticed, or I forgot, but do you have the stock orange intake boot yet, or what do you have? That has been known to collapse. I'll give it some more thought today too.
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"TheBeast"1997F2504x4dually4.10's,160k,140VIDM,HPX ,4-5"dp, S366 turbo w/wicked wheel, 6637, elec. fuel,rosewood stage ones,php hydra,arp studs, comp springs, smith brothers push rods, honeybadgerjr hpop,riffraff res,melling lpop,180 tstat,6.0 fan and IC,trucool,coolant filter,scan gauge,lots of other gauges,racer x valve body and billet converter, upgraded trans, F550 leaf springs,SD dual tensioner upgrade, cold ac mod
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:40 AM
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Me too Darin, it was fun. I have a Riffraff black intake boot, only a couple years old and still stiff lol. I was thinking something on the filter side as well initially, but when I removed the filter I still had the same problem.
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-1997 F-350 XLT 4x4,7.3 PSD,ZF5,227,000 miles,6637 intake,SD 7.3 Intercooler,F5 DP-Tuner chip,3" DP,4" Diamond Eye exhaust,EBPV delete,IH bellowed up-pipes,Beans D66 turbo,Southbend SMF/clutch kit,Autometer gauges,6.0 fan.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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I'm subscribing to see the possible resolution to this problem. I have an appointment and will be leaving in about 30 minutes or so. I'm going to look through my service manual to see if I can find anything that might be helpful for this situation.

Edit:
Well, I'm stumped. It looks like you have everything covered. Have you checked your fuel pressure? I'm wondering if fuel pressure is dropping off at the higher RPM levels, or if your FPR screen needs cleaning.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris56ford View Post
Me too Darin, it was fun. I have a Riffraff black intake boot, only a couple years old and still stiff lol. I was thinking something on the filter side as well initially, but when I removed the filter I still had the same problem.
I forgot you mentioned removing the filter. Means its smoking more, and seem to have a turbo issue, I think I'd pop the downpipe and see if you have any oil in it.
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"TheBeast"1997F2504x4dually4.10's,160k,140VIDM,HPX ,4-5"dp, S366 turbo w/wicked wheel, 6637, elec. fuel,rosewood stage ones,php hydra,arp studs, comp springs, smith brothers push rods, honeybadgerjr hpop,riffraff res,melling lpop,180 tstat,6.0 fan and IC,trucool,coolant filter,scan gauge,lots of other gauges,racer x valve body and billet converter, upgraded trans, F550 leaf springs,SD dual tensioner upgrade, cold ac mod
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:43 PM
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Thanks Craig, I didn't check fuel pressure after I got back but I did when I was having the water or algae problem. I need to check that again to cross it off the list. I'm thinking that could be a possibility for why I'm low on boost and its smoking more, but I doubt it could have anything to do with the sudden boost drop. I'm not sure if the two things are related or two separate issues.

Thanks Darin, I haven't checked that yet. It is smoking more but only black. When the exhaust turbine seal went out last time it was fogging the whole interstate, lol, and it was a grey/white smoke. But I suppose it could be a small leak and not noticeable smoke wise yet? I'll try and pull it off tomorrow and see. It would really suck to be a turbo issue, It was brand new only a couple years ago, maybe 10k on it.
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-1997 F-350 XLT 4x4,7.3 PSD,ZF5,227,000 miles,6637 intake,SD 7.3 Intercooler,F5 DP-Tuner chip,3" DP,4" Diamond Eye exhaust,EBPV delete,IH bellowed up-pipes,Beans D66 turbo,Southbend SMF/clutch kit,Autometer gauges,6.0 fan.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:10 PM
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I think it's worth checking Chris. If its smoking more black you're not burning your fuel as good as you were. I hope that it's not an issue too. I have read towing heavy with that smaller wheel is a lot harder on the stock turbo. For what reason I'm not sure as I'm far from a turbo expert. I think back in the day Glenn burned one up before with the smaller wheel.
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Darin 99 ranger 76F250 66 fairlane
"TheBeast"1997F2504x4dually4.10's,160k,140VIDM,HPX ,4-5"dp, S366 turbo w/wicked wheel, 6637, elec. fuel,rosewood stage ones,php hydra,arp studs, comp springs, smith brothers push rods, honeybadgerjr hpop,riffraff res,melling lpop,180 tstat,6.0 fan and IC,trucool,coolant filter,scan gauge,lots of other gauges,racer x valve body and billet converter, upgraded trans, F550 leaf springs,SD dual tensioner upgrade, cold ac mod
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:51 PM
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Yes I did but it was a bearing issue. I'm going to stay tuned to see what the deal is. Glad you made it home!
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:34 AM
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I will def check the down pipe for oil, might even do it tonight when I get home from work. Got a busy weekend at work coming up with the holiday festivities.

Thanks Glenn, what kind of boost were you running with the 1.0 housing before it went out on you?

I am going to think out loud here, sorry if i ramble.

I am wondering if there is a possibility that I could have a boost leak, plenums, IC cracked, something, that would hold to a certain pressure and then release all of a sudden? Is that even possible? But then that doesn't jive with my turbo sounding like it has a big boost leak all the time, it sounds exactly the same as when I blew a boot. I can hear the turbo much easier now, even at very low or no boost, where before I could only tell I had the billet wheel from 10-15psi.

So..... as I am typing this, I have a sinking feeling that the turbo bearings might be going out and either the compressor or turbine wheel is striking the housing causing a sudden boost drop at high boost/high rpm levels. But I would think I should have felt a lot of play in the shaft when I checked it, shouldn't I?

This is frustrating after all the problems I've had with this turbo system, then the work and upgrades to fix it and now this. When will it stop lol!!
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-1997 F-350 XLT 4x4,7.3 PSD,ZF5,227,000 miles,6637 intake,SD 7.3 Intercooler,F5 DP-Tuner chip,3" DP,4" Diamond Eye exhaust,EBPV delete,IH bellowed up-pipes,Beans D66 turbo,Southbend SMF/clutch kit,Autometer gauges,6.0 fan.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:21 AM
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I'd think you'd feel some play too. I'd give that area a good going over, turbo, dp, boots, etc.

Good luck with it Chris. I hope you have a good holiday weekend no matter what you find!
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"TheBeast"1997F2504x4dually4.10's,160k,140VIDM,HPX ,4-5"dp, S366 turbo w/wicked wheel, 6637, elec. fuel,rosewood stage ones,php hydra,arp studs, comp springs, smith brothers push rods, honeybadgerjr hpop,riffraff res,melling lpop,180 tstat,6.0 fan and IC,trucool,coolant filter,scan gauge,lots of other gauges,racer x valve body and billet converter, upgraded trans, F550 leaf springs,SD dual tensioner upgrade, cold ac mod
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:05 AM
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I was pulling the same numbers of boost you have been talking about. I did enjoy the fact that you could get boost sooner to get moving out of the hole. I feel your frustration as this is the first summer trip I've taken in the last 7-8 years that every thing is working good, knock on wood. LOL
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The Mare 97 dually cc,modified s366 turbo,stage II's,IC,studs,springs,rods,JW auto,4:10 LS,air bags,SD uvch,efuel,FS2500 bypass oil filter,HVHF IDM,IH WP,6.0 trans cooler & rad fan,MBRP 4",SD tensioner,AFE air filter,220 amp alt,38 gal rear tank & 33 gal aux bed tank,aux oil cooler,soundproofed,3 different TS chips,ac cold mod,XS batteries,riffraff hpop reservoir,aluminum radiator,HoneyBadgerJr hpop
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:37 PM
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I know there is a very minimal amount of movement allowed with the wheel, but that's mainly front-to-back (axial shaft?), not side-to-side. If you're able to feel any side-to-side movement, I'll agree with you that you may have a bearing issue.

Low fuel pressure would be a separate issue. I'm thinking that black smoke is caused by the sudden loss of boost. Your fuel pressure may be in spec, but it's on the low-side of spec, you'll definitely feel the loss of power, especially when towing.

The boost leak in the other components is a possibility. The only way to test, that I can think of, is to isolate each component and pressurize to the boost levels you expect to see while towing. You'd have to listen carefully for the leak OR remove each component, submerge in a water tank/bucket/etc. and pressurize. The bubbles will show you the leak location.
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:29 PM
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Last year Chris I had boost leaks that killed my performance. An exhaust manifold leak, up pipes leaked where they bolt on the manifolds. Also I used this tool, made up of parts from tractor supply. I found leaks at my boots on both sides of the IC. Fixed those five leaks and its running a lot better, a lot!!. I simply pressurized the system by putting this into the boot that goes into the turbo and turned on my Viair 12v pump and started spraying soapy water all over everything including the air intake manifolds.

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The Mare 97 dually cc,modified s366 turbo,stage II's,IC,studs,springs,rods,JW auto,4:10 LS,air bags,SD uvch,efuel,FS2500 bypass oil filter,HVHF IDM,IH WP,6.0 trans cooler & rad fan,MBRP 4",SD tensioner,AFE air filter,220 amp alt,38 gal rear tank & 33 gal aux bed tank,aux oil cooler,soundproofed,3 different TS chips,ac cold mod,XS batteries,riffraff hpop reservoir,aluminum radiator,HoneyBadgerJr hpop
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:29 PM
 
 
 
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