Have a 2005 6.0L

Starts good, idles rough when first warming up.
Try to drive it away any it has no power, revs up but won't shift, back off the throttle and it will shift.

Once it warms up it runs great. Shifts great. You would never know there is anything work with it.

I had low voltage on the FICM, as low as 35v , tried the self solder repair, got better, but still dropped to 44v. So just put in a new FICM.

Its better but still similar issues.

I run T-6 Rotella 0w-40 heavy duty diesel oil. So oil shouldn't be too thick.

New BulletProof EGR cooler and oil cooler a few years back. Replaced 2 injectors at the same time.

Change oil every 6,000 kms (3700 miles) been changing fuel filters every 2nd oil change. Continues to happen after oil changes with clean oil.

I have no codes, scanner does not note any misfires when monitoring it.

Been reading here going to try and
Find any pending codes
Try Rev-x

I am thinking injector stiction. Hoping Rev-x will resolve.

Any other thoughts or ideas. Help is greatly appreciated.

Kev

 

What if any tuner you using Kev?

 

I have an Edge tuner. 'CS' I think.

I had it tuned to power level 3, but set it back to stock yesterday afternoon, thinking that was delaying the shift. I know it does a little, but when cold its crazy.

Going to cold start it this morning and see how things are with that changed.
Its not even that cold out, its zero Celsius, so 32 F

Its much better even when plugged in, even up to 8 degrees Celsius, 46 F, don't notice it as much above that, but still there a bit.

When starting cold, it idles a little rough for a bit, but then idles smooth. Sounds fine. Doesn't sound like it is missing at all, but put it into gear and try and drive it, it feels like its missing, very rough, not power and the shifting issue. Again after about 10min it runs like a dream.

Was thinking about taking out the EGR Valve and cleaning that.

 

I don' see any reason why i cannot use the Rev-x or the Archoil with the T-6 synthetic 0w-40 oil i use. I have been reading about that, there seems to be no conflict, but will read more before i do that.

Need to find out where i can buy that locally.

 

Ok, just did the cold start and drive thing, the start up was smoother than it has been. This was the first real chilly morning with the new FICM.

Tuned back to stock, the shifting is better.

However the underlying problem is still there.

When stepping on the gas to go, no power, feels like is missing like crazy.

Don't appear to have any black, blue or white smoke.

Going to check later, but was not spilling codes.

Going to pick up some Archoil or Rev-x and try that.

Still thinking Stiction

 

You first want to eliminate the tuner. The Glow plug relay module may not working on start up. Driving concerns, low power, could be low boost or the EGR. Usually the EGR will belch out smoke and fart through the intake when you apply power. Low boost or sticking will show smoke.

I would eliminate the tuner first, then go from there so we can rule out any possibilities. It sounds like you do not have a cold engine strategy that is working properly.

 

Thanks for your comments guys...

Tuner was tuned back to stock yesterday. So that was eliminated for todays cold start. Decided to stop by my local diesel shop today to see if they carried either the Rev-x or the Archoil. He didn't, but we had a good talk. Then whent out to look at my truck.

His comment was that if it was stiction it shoul only be at start up. Once running and close to operating temps it should not be an issue. I explained to him what was going on in my truck, and he said it sounds more like an injectir going bad.

We walked over to a truck they just did the injectors on and started it cold. Then he said if the injectors are good, when in park and you slowly start to step on the gas increasing the RPM up to 3000-3500 RPM the entire increase should be smooth. No shaking.

If there is an injector going it will feel rough some where through the increase in RPM. So we walked over to my truck and did the same thing. Almost at operating temp from driving there, we started up my truck and did the same thing. Wow, i could feel a slight shake in the motor telegraphing through the steering column. He said that mine was not bad, he had seen a lot worse, but felt it was a failing or failed injector.

In his opinion, it was not stiction at all.

I am going to get it in for an injector scan, etc. see what they cone up with, but am going to try a couple other things first.

We spoke some more and he noted that there are a few tricks you can do with these, one of them is to increase the fuel pressure. He noted that there is a fuel regulator upgrade available from Ford that will increase the fuel pressure from the original +/- 40 PSI to +/- 60 PSI. He said this can make a big difference in pushing fuel through an injector that is potentially partially blocked or starting to fail.

I thought this was an very interesting idea. Ford ran a high pressure oil system to inject the fuel in these 6.0L, but in the next engine, the 6.4L they dropped that and went to high pressure fuel, no longer using the high pressure oil system to inject fuel.

I though that was a great idea, so i went to Ford to get this upgrade kit

Ford Part No. 3C3Z-9T517-AG. Regukator Kit @ +/- $145 plus tax.

I am going to put that in tonight, if i have time. Either that or this weekend. See if that helps to correct my problem.

Talking with the Ford Parts guy, these 6.0L tend to struggle some what with our Canadian diesel. He noted that the specs for the 6.0L recommend 46-48 Cetane.

Our diesel fuel here in Canada generally runs in the 38-40 cetane range. Pretty low. He recommended Ford's Cetane and Performance Boost. Which when added correctly, cleans, boosts fuel cetane and over all performance.

Now i have used this before and ran out and have not used it for a while, kinda forgot about it, been using other stuf for cleaning and water removal, however the Cetane boost makes a big difference in the way the truck runs and mileage. When i was using it previously i figured i was getting another 3-4 miles to the gallon. The difference in pick up was amazing. So i bought some more and will go back to using that in all my fuel. It funny how we sometimes forget about the good things in life.

So that is where i am at right now, i am going to run the Cetane boost for a bit, going to put in the fuel pressure system upgrade kit and see where i am at.

If that does not change things, i might try the Rev-x thing.

If that doesn't work, it goes in for a scan to see what the injectors are doing.
I don't think my scanner will tell me that, it just tells me its not misfiring electrically.

So on to the fuel pressure system upgrade kit.

Any comments appreciated, will post my findings after the upgrade.

Kev

 

I also have a bit of a lag when hitting the gas so going to remove and do a good clean on the EGR Valve.

Note:
Nobody in Calgary carried Archoil. One place carries Rev-x.

Also a little over a year ago i had the truck re-flashed for all updates including the stiction thing, felt it made a big difference. But now i am having other similar issues.

I am starting to think this is not a stiction issue. Need to sort out if it is injector issues.

 

Subscribing, I have exact same problem, but with no tune in truck. Seemed to get worse after my first oil change, thinking previous owner may have been running rev x or similar. If I let truck idle till eot reaches 150ish problem is hardly noticeable.

 

What the guy at the diesel shop told me was that most guys think their truck runs just fine once warmed up, including myself, but that is not the case as he demonstrated to me.

The other truck they just fixed rev'd smoothly up to 3000-3500 rpm when sitting in park. Mine which i though was good once warm actually has a bit of a miss during the rev up process up to 3000-3500 rpm. You can feel it.

So where i thought it was good it actually is not.

He told me that he has tried Rev-x a number of times and it simply didn't work for what he was trying to fix. He noted that the Rev-x goes in the oil side of the injector and may or may not clean it out. It might even be resolving stiction issues on the oil side. However, it does nothing for the fuel side.

So if the issue is on the fuel side Rev-x or Archoil in the oil side will do nothing. If the injector is failing it will do nothing. He noted in most scenarios it is not often stiction that is the problem. Many people like myself, jump to the stiction thing and pour in Rev-x or Archoil. With no great results. Others have great results, if the issue is actually stiction.

Archoil does have some fuel additive that help clean the fuel side of the injector, in fact i spoke to the guy at Archoil and they recommend using the AR9100 on the oil side and their fuel additive on the fuel side in combination. Not sure of that product number. Could look into that as well.

As my shop guy noted stiction is not an issue once the 6.0 L is at operating temperature. So if you do the rev test, like he showed me, and it does not rev up smoothly without the shake, then your issues are else where.


So if the issue is not stiction and not electrical, the issue is most likely on the fuel side. The injector is failing or is gummed up.

So by increasing the PSI by doing the fuel pressure system upgrade, increasing from 40 PSI to 60 PSI you may be able to over come a gummed injector. And the higher PSI should also help to prevent future gumming, but keep using your additives. Ford wouldn't have released an upgrade providing higher PSI if it did not help.

So that is that path i am headed down later tonight.

If the higher PSI and Ford's Cetane boost does not help, then my opinion right now is that it is an injector failing and Rev-x cannot fix that.

I might try the Rev-x or the Aarchoil ( fuel and oil additives) just for giggles to say i did, but it will most likely have to go to the shop for an injector test. One hours shop time for the bill.

I have to leave it over night and they will do a cold start test the next morning.

Then the bad new!

I will post what i find after the PSI fuel upgrade.

 

Good info. I have done the blue spring upgrade, but don't use a fuel additive, guess I'll read back through this when I get home see if I can figure out the rev up test. Maybe I'll pick up a bottle of additive also for a before and after. Then I guess I'm in the same boost add you, off to the shop for an injector test. Will a scan gauge 2 show miss fires at any kind of injector info? I have no codes showing up.

 

I recently bought a hand little scanner from EASYDIAG. Was $50 and the local parts store then another $40 for the Ford software.

Works really good. Can check all kinds of things.

It does an evaluation of the mis-fires on the cylinder, but mine shows all as good, with no mis-fires.

Asked my diesel shop guy, why if he thinks it is a mis-fire or failing injector or what ever, why does it not show up on my scanner ? Why would it show up on his ?

His comment was that the scanner is likely just doing an electrical evaluation and the truck is not mis-firing electrically. All the electrical side is good. His scanners an way more expensive and do way more cool things. I cannot afford those.

So I have emailed EASYDIAG to see if there is some way that I have missed to evaluate the cylinders performance so I can determine if an injector is failing. Should have an answer back in 48 hours according the the standard form email I got back from them.

As for codes, I have not codes.

As for the rev up test... its simply.

Slowly and gently rev the engine up in PARK. Rev it up at a consistent rate. Hold onto your steering wheel to feel any vibration. Any vibration might be lost in your seat if you are just sitting there not hanging on to something that is fixed, that is not dampered from vibration. I could feel it in the steering wheel.

So for an interval, think 5 second and count out 1-2-3-4-5
1 should be just starting and
5 should be at 3000-35000 RPM

If RPM climbs nicely with no vibration or shake or kicking you should be good. Try it at cold start, but that could be stiction. Do it at running temperature. Mine did it when it was warmed up, only 7 degrees short of full operating temp. I thought it was running well when warm, but that showed me otherwise.

If it doesn't climb nicely and you feel a kick or shake or something that does not feel or sound normal to you, you are likely in the same boat as I am with something going on with the fuel side of the injector.

He did it on the other truck when it was cold. It was constant and smooth... made me sick. haha mine use to sound like that. The whole engine just sounded smoother.

Mine was warm, and the difference between vehicles was totally obvious to me right away. Tried it a few times, and sure enough there is a shake or kicking around there during the increase of RPM. Didn't happen in the cold truck right beside me. So yes there is something to this test.

Just got to get to the bottom of what it is now.

So trying the blue spring tonight as noted.

Do you find any different with the blue spring ?

Why did you change it out ? Just as an upgrade, or addressing something else ?

Kev

 

I am no expert on this, but this is my opinion. Don't expect a miracle out of additives in a few kms or miles.

Some seem to need 30kms or so, some are 100 kms minimum, some are a couple tanks. I am thinking that is a mater of concentration of the product. The heaver the concentration the quicker the result type of thing.

I was also told that when using REV-X that you need to take off the oil cap and remove the filter and pour the REV-X directly down the tube. Then put it back together. If you pour it straight into your oil spout it becomes too diluted to have any real cleaning effect. Not sure if that is in the instructions or not. Good to know as I would have likely poured it into the oil spout. However, I would recommend reading the instruction to confirm that before using it, but still interesting to note.

If you have not tried Ford's Cetane & Performance Booster for your fuel I would recommend that. Its a cleaner as well. I have not found anything on the shelf like it. But haven't looked that hard either. I lived in small town BC for a while and FORD was just up the road so that was easy. You'll like the power boost and difference in your mileage. Especially when pulling a big trailer.

K

 

Tuner is de-tuned.

I think my glow plugs are working just fine cause it always starts up good. I sometimes have even tried cycling the key 3-4 times before actually starting the truck to see if that makes a difference. My though was that if I cycled the glow plugs they would get warmer and warmer with each key cycle and starting should improve with more cycles prior to actual ignition. That may not be the way that works. It was just my theory. But it made no difference.

The truck has always started well and even idles ok. Its rough when its really cold but when it warms up a bit it smooths out and seems to idle ok. Although I am not so sure about that anymore. I discovered today that my truck has a bit of a shake even when warm. But that wouldn't be glow plugs at that time.

Driving concerns:

Low boost - I do have a second or so lag when I hit the pedal hard even when warm, so I am going to clean out the EGR Valve tonight as well. I am going to have to see if I can read the boost level with my scanner.

What should boost be at idle ? Or what are the specs to check it against ?
Thanks in advance.

Low boost cause is what ? An air leak or a turbo issue ?

One thing that I noted this morning when I started it cold, and I have not noticed this before, I could see the exhaust this morning, not uncommon in Canada, but it seemed to me that there my have been a touch blue in it. I have never noticed that before and I pay attention to the exhaust colours in cold weather.

Black is often EGR

White is most often water, as when I lost my EGR Cooler tube.

Blue is burning OIL or unburnt fuel ?

Need to watch that over the next while.



A 'cold engine strategy' is that something I can control or change ? Thought that was all looked after by the computer. I guess I can change it if something is failing and can be replaced or repaired. I just haven't heard that terminology before.

Thanks for your comments John.

 

Received a response back from EasyDiag

The EasyDiag has no bi-directional capabilities. You will not be able to turn off/on the injectors. Only read, clear, and data stream for the different modules.

Based on that I guess they shut off the injectors to test for variations in power somehow. So you need a bi-directional scanner to do that. I wonder what those are worth ? Lots more than $150 for an hour of shop time I am sure.

Well, if it comes to that, its off to the diesel shop I go.....

K