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  #16  
Old 05-01-2014, 04:49 PM
n2umr n2umr is offline
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And it's not just the light duty truck market either. Try buying a fire truck with a manual tranny. Most if not all buses are automatic. It won't be long before the manual will be a thing of the past. I don't miss it after driving it for years.

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  #17  
Old 05-01-2014, 05:26 PM
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Newer buses are autos. I've only been on one bus that has a manual in it. Every school bus I was in during my times in school all had I think the Allison 545 POS transmission. I'm still on the bench on manuals vs automatics. I like both.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Frdtrkrul View Post
I know they de-rated the Cummins to 600 something foot/lbs for the manual. But I didn't think that they still offered the manual.
I'm not sure about the 2015 Ram trucks, I know for sure the 2014's still offered the manual. (been truck shopping for awhile). At this stage in life, not really intersted in a manual anymore, the new auto's with select shift, etc. are sufficient for my needs when I would normally "need" a manual, which is very, very seldom. I stay irritated enough pulling something in traffic without the added irritation of a manual in that setting (stop and go traffic). Getting lazy I suppose, it is what it is.... Now, be that as it may, If I were interested in a "sports" car, maybe, but as someone else mentioned, the new dual clutch auto setup would probably be a better option, IMO.
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:00 PM
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Manual transmissions were historically more economical. The old Dynaflow transmission used in Buicks from 1947-1963 wasted literally HALF of the engine's power. Small 4-cylinder cars in the 60's and 70's with automatic transmissions were pathetic because they couldn't keep the engines in the right rpm range.

With modern automatic transmissions (lots of gears, or CVT's), EPA mileage ratings are generally higher for automatics than for sticks these days, and performance is hardly worse. And people spend their drive time on the cell phone, noodling around with GPS, eating and drinking. In the old days, cars and trucks didn't have cupholders; now there are usually 2 cupholders for every seat.

That said, I have a '91 BMW 318is with a stick (and no cupholders) and my daily driver is a 2009 Subaru Forester with a stick. (I really wanted an Escape, but in 2008, the only Escape available with a stick was 2WD and four cylinders, and there was exactly ONE in dealer stock east of the Mississippi.) But even Subaru, one of the last holdouts for manual transmissions, has killed all manuals in the 2015 Outback. The Forester and Impreza still have sticks available, but gas mileage with the CVT transmissions is better.

So, sticks are on their way out in almost every application except some performance cars. My son insists on driving a stick, but almost none of his friends (he's 26) even know how.

George
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:14 PM
Frdtrkrul Frdtrkrul is offline
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Lowest gear ratio I know found in stick for OD was .71:1 in the ZF6 transmission. Most automatic transmissions I know of have a .69:1 OD. Which means you can drive at a higher speed and still have a lower RPM. I have seen some semis switch from manual transmissions to automatic. Guess once they have all gone to auto we'll know manual is truly dead. Twin sticks have been dead for years, which was popular (I think).
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  #21  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:15 PM
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So, sticks are on their way out in almost every application except some performance cars. My son insists on driving a stick, but almost none of his friends (he's 26) even know how
Good for your son, and a plus...his friends wont/cant take his car.

I love manual's, the main reason being is the maintenance cost. Clutch kit usually around $100. Automatic rebuild is stupid expensive now! Only know how much it will cost to rebuild one of these 6 or 8 speed autos. And if it is a 4x4 the cost is even higher to rebuild.
My wife has her grandpa's old 66 chevy panel with "3 on the tree" and I have 2 first gen rangers( 84 and 87) both 4x4 5 speed. Also we have a old ford Naa tractor. So my kids will get to learn to operate a manual trans.
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2014, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Frdtrkrul View Post
Lowest gear ratio I know found in stick for OD was .71:1 in the ZF6 transmission. Most automatic transmissions I know of have a .69:1 OD. Which means you can drive at a higher speed and still have a lower RPM. I have seen some semis switch from manual transmissions to automatic. Guess once they have all gone to auto we'll know manual is truly dead. Twin sticks have been dead for years, which was popular (I think).
The t-56 was available with a .50 over drive
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mvs4th View Post
Driving just does not feel like driving without a manual transmission. As a person who loves to drive I see many benefits to a manual transmission aside from just the joy of shifting. Are there any plans to bring the manual transmission back with the 2015 F-Series or are we condemned to the automatic?

I too am a manual fan. I just won't drive anything else. People constantly tell me zillions of reasons why auto's are better, but it just doesn't matter to me, because I ENJOY shifting for myself and have been doing it for over fifty years. Not only that, although I'm certified for Auto Transmission repair and maintenance, I HATE doing either. Give me a manual and I'll make the clutch last almost forever and change the transission lube every 100,000 miles or so and be a happy camper.

Nothing against auto drivers, I just prefer my manuals. For this reason I take really good care of my precious 2000 5 speed, V8 4X4.

When I mention the fact that I can't get a new truck with a stick any more, she always seems to come back with, maybe it's time for you to give up and drive an automatic. My response is NEVER!

I do understand, however, that if Ford or anyone else doesn't have a market, they don't make the product. It's a good business decision.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2014, 05:32 PM
Frdtrkrul Frdtrkrul is offline
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I don't know anyone making adapter plates to hook up a manual to any of the newer engines. I like the way manuals feel and I do like being able to have more control over my vehicle with a manual over the auto (maybe one reason why the newer autos have a manual option?).
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2014, 06:32 PM
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More control is one thing, but a well programmed automatic can shift faster and more precise than a manual.
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2014, 07:28 PM
Frdtrkrul Frdtrkrul is offline
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But makes it much more expensive to fix it. Too many electronics just over complicates things or just becomes more crap to go wrong.
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  #27  
Old 05-02-2014, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frdtrkrul View Post
But makes it much more expensive to fix it. Too many electronics just over complicates things or just becomes more crap to go wrong.
Electronics make for fewer mechanical parts in some cases although I'll agree that the new 6, 8, 9, etc. speed automatics as well as CVT's are not going to be very rebuildable at any kind of reasonable price. I think I remember reading that CVT rebuilds were basically restricted to "clean room" factory-type rebuilds only.

I do think that QC on engines and transmissions is far better than it used to be. And with them being basically standard, there will be used ones available.

And actually, labor and parts to replace a clutch (if you don't do your own work) are getting pretty high these days.

I remember when it was $2-300 to rebuild an auto trans.... I guess this sounds like the old guy who remembers when a loaf of bread was a nickel... Actually I also remember buying gasoline for 24.9 cents per gallon, and a gas war that pushed it down to 18.9 cents for a minute....

Not like we have any kind of choice on transmissions any more...

George
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GTXgp View Post
More control is one thing, but a well programmed automatic can shift faster and more precise than a manual.
That is true, but the difference is determined by the skill and experience of the person working the clutch and shifter. It wouldn't matter to me if the automatic is twice as fast. I completely enjoy manual transmission driving. Also since I do all my own work, I like the relatively carefree nature of my manuals.

For me, however, I prefer to shift for myself. Always have and always will. Nothing against those that prefer automatics. I'm glad that that auto drivers have what they prefer. I just wish I could also have what I prefer.
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
Electronics make for fewer mechanical parts in some cases although I'll agree that the new 6, 8, 9, etc. speed automatics as well as CVT's are not going to be very rebuildable at any kind of reasonable price. I think I remember reading that CVT rebuilds were basically restricted to "clean room" factory-type rebuilds only.

I do think that QC on engines and transmissions is far better than it used to be. And with them being basically standard, there will be used ones available.

And actually, labor and parts to replace a clutch (if you don't do your own work) are getting pretty high these days.

I remember when it was $2-300 to rebuild an auto trans.... I guess this sounds like the old guy who remembers when a loaf of bread was a nickel... Actually I also remember buying gasoline for 24.9 cents per gallon, and a gas war that pushed it down to 18.9 cents for a minute....

Not like we have any kind of choice on transmissions any more...

George

The thing of it is, if you are a skilled stick shift driver, you will probably never need to replace a clutch, but even if you do, it's not nearly as expensive as rebuilding an auto. If you are maintaining an auto like you should, the cost of a clutch would be similar to the maintenance cost of the auto over the same number of miles.

I have driven multiple vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles on the same clutch.
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2014, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBDiagMan View Post
The thing of it is, if you are a skilled stick shift driver, you will probably never need to replace a clutch, but even if you do, it's not nearly as expensive as rebuilding an auto. If you are maintaining an auto like you should, the cost of a clutch would be similar to the maintenance cost of the auto over the same number of miles.

I have driven multiple vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles on the same clutch.
The fact is that we can talk all day about the difference in maintenance costs, but if we simply cannot get a stick in a new car or truck we want, it makes no difference....for instance, we are discussing this in the 2015 F150 forum and there will be no sticks on any model of those.

That said, I've been driving vans for a lot of years, but in 1978, I ordered my first brand new vehicle ever (needed a dependable commuter) and chose a '78 F100 short bed Flareside with a 300 inch six and a 4 speed manual OD (toploader with 3rd and 4th gears reversed).

That trans stunk in its old age because the countershaft bearings wore out at about 80k miles and made some LOUD growling noises--lots of miles in OD gear stressed the countershaft for lots of miles--whereas in the original toploader, the only gears that used the countershaft were not cruising gears. I just drove it in 3rd till I sold it. 2.75 axle was plenty long enough (and way overgeared with the OD).

Take care,
George
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