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Old 04-09-2014, 12:11 AM
desertdog1976 desertdog1976 is offline
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New High Boy- Help Please- Carb/Fuel Line/ Timing ??

Well I'm finally on the board. I'm going to talk for a bit before I ask my question because I know many of you like the stories and photos. If you don't like long stories of how good old Arizona Red Neck Boys find their first Ford Truck and still want to give me some advice, skip down a bit.

Found this forum last spring when I decided on getting a High Boy and found a wealth of knowledge from all of you, so many thanks. I steered clear of a lot of high priced pieces of Junk because of many of you like Montana Highboy, with savy advise. I missed out on a lot of deals too. There was a 77 highboy, automatic tranny, for $3000 or best offer. Looked real clean.. Post had been up for 4 hours, called the phone number, SOLD. I even finally gave in to the F100. A 76 F100 4x4, $2000. Too good to be true right? SOLD, 2 hours on Craigslist. Funny though, there is a guy in Prescott with a High Boy selling for 13K, and it's still for sale one year later Even though I ended up paying more than I wanted for what I got, I refused to settle for an Earlier High Boy as I wanted Disc Brakes in the front and I wanted a 360, not the 400 or 351. And I wanted 4x4 and I wanted the F250, so the 76 High Boy was what I wanted. I also wanted the automatic tranny because I have some tendonitis thing in my right elbow, and I can't even right, let alone shift. Looking back, I do regret passing up on a really nice 75 highboy (had a 3 inch lift and roll bar in Cab YUCK) but it was clean and an alleged 390.

Anyhow, my Uncle bought a 76 Highboy back in 77 new off the lot. I was originally looking at the late 60's and early 70 4x4's. I test drove a 77 with a 460, ect. and he kept telling me to get a 390. He still had his original truck. He built up his 360 to a 390, put in a cam, ad Carter Carb, ect. I test drove his and fell in love, but he wouldn't sell it. Long story short, his son allegedly steals his truck, drives it to Texas. I find my High Boy in the California Desert but uncle can't come with me because he's got health issues. I end up buying it, and attempting to make the 6 hour drive back through the Mohave desert and I don't make it back. Eventually I get the truck back. The ******* I bought it from (You still owe me $400 james Bramlett of Yucca Valley) says it was having issues of vapor locking out there in the Mohave. Anyways, my uncle and I our driving it around, no issues with vapor lock once I get it back to AZ last July. Uncle then goes to Jail (Alcohol/ Restraining Order/Ex Wife) and he's been in and out of Jail for all of the rest of 2013. He was going to help me fix this up, but now I'm kind of on my own.

Click the image to open in full size.

I'm not a mechanic, I own simple tools but like most guys on here am short on cash. I replaced the mechanical fuel pump. Couple months no Issue. Then the same thing that happened to me on my way back from California happened. Then the truck is fine, and then a week or two weeks later, it will happen again. It happened today, and since I finally have a computer that will let me access these Forums, here I am.

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Ok, here is my problem and I'm pretty sure fuel line or carb related. Someone suggested Timing, but again I'm new to this so I need advise.

5 pumps on pedal in the morning, starts right up. All winter and even in Summer. Drive it to work 30 miles. Let it sit all day. 5 Pumps in the afternoon, starts right up drives home. No issues. Sometimes I take the Freeway home and I'm going 60, sometimes 70. Today I'm going 70 and I sputtering sounds/ farting. Sounds like it's coming from Carb, and I'm losing power. I've got my foot on the pedal but she's slowing down. Almost like it's starved for fuel. Now I'm down to 55 mph, and it's fine...I put the pedal down, start to go up to 60, then 63, sputtering, losing power, back down to 55. Keep in mind, I'm am going up a gradual hill. Took the Freeway to work going 70 mph in the morning, smooth sailing. Took the same Freeway back 3 days the week before, 70 mph up the hill no problem. So I limp 55 on the freeway for 2 miles, exit at the next street. Stop at light, normal, as soon as I get past the couple lights, speed limit 50, so I go up the hill 60 mph, no problem.

This is same thing that happened on my way driving it home through Mohave Desert. Except, it was doing the same sputtering at 20 mph.

Also, Drove it 45 miles on Freeway to my buddy's house three weeks ago doing 55-70 mph, no issues. Truck was sitting at his house for 2 hours. Pumped the pedal 4 times, starts right up. We drive 6 miles to Home Depot. go in and get cement. Load up cement, it won't start. Turning over, but no fuel. I'm pumping, but nothing. I put the pedal to the metal, and I hear it start to catch, keep pedal town and cranking,starts up. This happened today. Started up when I left work on pumps, went to harbor freight, and pumped 5 times, just cranking, no gas. Had to put pedal to metal.

Before my Uncle went to Jail he told me to get rid of the piece of crap Holly that in there. Said he had a holly and when he would 4x4 up hills it would stall, ect. Told me to get a Carter or at least an Eddlebrock.

I'm attaching pics of where I have the fuel line. My uncle told me to re route it so I didn't start a fire and so it's where the original would be.

It does have headers on it, and that flex line runs along the frame kind of close to the headers, and if I re routed the fuel line up by the power steering pump, by the MSD ignition box, would that keep it cooler.

I have NOT tried Carb Cleaner or anything. Replaced Air Filter, and Fuel Pump and two Fuel Lines ( Line from Fuel Pump to Metal line towards tank. and Line from carb to fuel filter.


Click the image to open in full size.

Any advice would help. I've got $300 and wanted to replace carpet with rubber and new door inserts from LMC but maybe I should put towards new Carb.

Last edited by desertdog1976; 04-09-2014 at 12:19 AM. Reason: more pics
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2014, 03:29 AM
-mywheels- -mywheels- is offline
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Holleys are really good carbs. Super easy to rebuild. Edelbrocks are good too, but a pain to rebuild. Pick up a rebuild kit for the holley $30+ and a new fuel filter. I have a small box of tools and can work on most things on my truck. Never give up
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:42 AM
jamusfam jamusfam is offline
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Wow long story. But don't give up. After you get it figured out I'm sure you'll be thinking "omg that's it.... That was the problem. " welcome to FTE. BTW nice truck.
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:20 PM
Filthy Beast Filthy Beast is offline
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Have you pulled a plug or two? What do they tell you?

Could be the floats need some adjusting/fine tuning...or some crud that sets in the bottom of the float bowl, occasionally getting into the jets......gunked up innards that you could blow out while rebuilding it....shot power valve....vacuum advance with 'sticky' cams or 'weights'....mebbe a vacuum advance diaphragm that's shot...

Do you have another filter before the fuel pump? Good idea to have one. Not necessarily physically before the pump, but inline just north of the tank.

Have you checked the timing yet?
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:34 PM
Bud Mud Bud Mud is offline
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After 35 years of working on old cars and trucks,plus 20yrs NOS experience in drag racing. "IF" Its popping back up threw the cab,its some type of timing issue,fuel will make one think its coming up the cab but its not,its going out the exhaust on the stumble. GOOD LUCK,Nice looking truck.
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:26 PM
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Is there any way you can distill this down to a short, itemized list of the problems? Maybe others have a longer attention span, but I can't make it through all that.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:08 AM
desertdog1976 desertdog1976 is offline
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Thank you guys, at least I know where to start. Again sorry for the long story, but I only have one friend who likes these old fords.

Filthy, I have not pulled any plugs yet. Will do.

I do have a clear plastic filter just after the fuel exits the tank.

No sediment in the filters, looks fine. They have been on since July, how often should they be replaced.

I will look into rebuild kit for the Carb since it seems cheap and easy.

I have not checked Timing, I do not have a timing light and have never done it, but if that is what could be causing it I should probably do that first.

Bud Mud, definitely popping sounds from under the hood, and loss of power.


For short attention spans like FMC400 the questions are.


*Sputtering/Popping sounds from under the hood on Certain hills or past 55 /60 mph. Also loss of power, sounds like stalling out of gas, and over half a tank left.

*Starts right up with several pedal pumps in Mornings. Has trouble starting after being driven, hard to get fuel into carb.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdog1976 View Post
*Sputtering/Popping sounds from under the hood on Certain hills or past 55 /60 mph. Also loss of power, sounds like stalling out of gas, and over half a tank left.
Suspected fuel delivery issues at high speeds could point to a clogged fuel filter, failing fuel pump, or improper float height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdog1976 View Post
*Starts right up with several pedal pumps in Mornings. Has trouble starting after being driven, hard to get fuel into carb.
Why are you pumping the pedal several times? The pedal must be pressed once to free the fast idle linkage so that the choke may close.

How are you determining that it's hard to get fuel into the carb? What does that mean specifically? Surely you're not physically putting fuel into the carburetor yourself. Do you mean you're looking for gas hit the venturis when you pull the throttle back, and it's not happening?
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:04 AM
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turbohunter turbohunter is offline
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Hey Ddog,welcome to FTE.
You've got a couple different problems there.
What I would do if I were you is like fmc400 has stated, make a list of your problems and SYSTEMATICALLY go through them and fix them.
As stated above Holleys are great carbs and very easy to rebuild.
However you don't know if you need to yet.
Here is the Holley tech page, lots of good info there.
Holley Performance Products Technical Library
Start to familiarize yourself with your carb.
Also check out Holley on you tube. There are a lot of useful videos that give you the basics on the carbs.
You need to know what carb you have. The numbers are on the very top bell of the primary side of the carb.
You prolly have some timing issues also. Do you know how to set your timing?
Since you bought an old truck you need to get old school and learn how to keep it in shape.
Good luck and tell us all the stories you want and post all the pics you can.
And again welcome.
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:41 AM
desertdog1976 desertdog1976 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmc400 View Post
Suspected fuel delivery issues at high speeds could point to a clogged fuel filter, failing fuel pump, or improper float height.



Why are you pumping the pedal several times? The pedal must be pressed once to free the fast idle linkage so that the choke may close.

How are you determining that it's hard to get fuel into the carb? What does that mean specifically? Surely you're not physically putting fuel into the carburetor yourself. Do you mean you're looking for gas hit the venturis when you pull the throttle back, and it's not happening?
Thanks FMC. I really think it's the Float. Just youtubed how to raise the float level and will try it Tues or Wed after work.

Pumping the Pedal- It would start right up after one pedal pump last fall until it got cold. Then it would start and then stall. A buddy (not a mechanic, just owns a 75 dentside) told me he has to pump his several times. So I tried it and it worked, so I kept doing it. Your right, pumped one time this morning and it started right up.

Fuel not getting to Carb- No havn't been physically putting fuel into carb. But I can see the fuel draining from the carb towards the tank leaving only a little bit of fuel in the clear filter just before Carb.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:44 AM
desertdog1976 desertdog1976 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbohunter View Post
Hey Ddog,welcome to FTE.
You've got a couple different problems there.
What I would do if I were you is like fmc400 has stated, make a list of your problems and SYSTEMATICALLY go through them and fix them.
As stated above Holleys are great carbs and very easy to rebuild.
However you don't know if you need to yet.
Here is the Holley tech page, lots of good info there.
Holley Performance Products Technical Library
Start to familiarize yourself with your carb.
Also check out Holley on you tube. There are a lot of useful videos that give you the basics on the carbs.
You need to know what carb you have. The numbers are on the very top bell of the primary side of the carb.
You prolly have some timing issues also. Do you know how to set your timing?
Since you bought an old truck you need to get old school and learn how to keep it in shape.
Good luck and tell us all the stories you want and post all the pics you can.
And again welcome.

Thank you Turbo Hunter, I will check out that link. What I'm finding out is I'm actually making these things harder than they really are, but I really appreciate everyone's help. I really want to use her to haul my quad, but I need her reliable so I don't get stuck out in the desert.

took pics but having trouble posting them tonight.

1. Carb # is 90670-3 with a 0111 below that. Will check float level and hope to RAISE float level. Looks like I can use screwdriver and wrench (sounds like Easy fix like Wonka said)
2. Pulled all spark plugs. 3 of the plugs had issues. Looks like Electrode tip was melted in cylinders 1 and 3. And Cylinder 5 plug electrode is totally gone!! Please tell me I don't need to rebuild the Engine yet! Perhaps the timing issue has caused this.
Click the image to open in full size.

3. I do not have a timing light and have never done that. Watched MSD You Tube video on how to set timing, seems easy, but a little confused with the three different timings I need to set. Will have to research more.

4. Put KN Air Filter, Carb Spacer and New Plugs in today, HUGE Difference in Acceleration.


Thanks Wonka. She looks really good from 10 feet She's got some rust, but pretty straight. I'll post more pics of underside, ect. I paid too much but figured life is short and I'm not getting any younger. She will hold me over till I find that rust free Arizona Barn Find that I know is waiting for me She was $4500 and then $1500 for the Rims and Tires.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:01 AM
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#1 Ok, so you have a 670 cfm 4150.
Familiarize yourself with it's operation. Those vids help.

#2 Yeah that might cause it to run like crap.
No rebuild yet.

#3 Get yourself a timing light.
Also get up close and personal with your balancer and clean off the timing marks. I painted mine so that I could see them easier.
Start at about 12 to 14 degrees initial timing. Listen to your engine. It will tell you where it wants to be.

#4 Excellent, good for you.
Keep at it and have patience.

If you really want to put your mind at ease about a rebuild you should do a compression check. But lets get it running right first. Sounds like you may be Ok. It's responding to your tinkering. Stay the course.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:59 PM
desertdog1976 desertdog1976 is offline
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Click the image to open in full size.

Thanks FMC. I'm going to just use little rice burner civic to get to work while I try to get this straightened out.

After driving it this is what fuel filter between Carb and Fuel Pump looks like. Fuel drains towards gas tank, filter just outside the tank hardly has fuel too. Like fuel is traveling towards the fuel tank.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:46 AM
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So it's not a vapor lock problem. As fmc suspected its a feed problem. Start back at the tank, check the vent and check all your rubber from tank to carb.
As long as you're doing that you may as well check the metal tubing. Resin and crap can build up inside. Obviously the smaller the supply tubing the smaller the supply.
I forgot, have you checked the pump?
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:28 PM
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I bet you were flooding the engine by pumping it so many times, that would explain why it would eventually start when you hold the gas pedal down.

I had a Carter on my truck for quite some time. I just recently changed to a Holley. My truck runs tons better with the Holley.

You also want to keep your fuel line as far away from heat sources as you can. That can cause you some issues your experiencing. I'm not sure, but running it across your radiator hose is probably not the best way. On my truck I have it so that it comes off the fuel pump on the side of the engine, goes in between the block and fan belt then straight into the carb, which is on the driver's side like yours.

I'm sure that someone who knows more about that can chime in, because I honestly don't know if that is part of your issue or not.

I can post of a pic of how my line is ran if you need it, just let me know.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:28 PM
 
 
 
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