hey guys. just got my first powerstroke! its an 08 f250 fx4 with 124xxx on it. seems to be running great. only thing im worried about is the trans shifting hard and when Its cold and i run up to around 2000 rpm in 3rd gear the engine sound changes and it seems to dog a little then it shifts and its just fine? once it gets up to temp, seems to go away. im not a big diesel guy and im not sure what it is. also the truck ahs aftermarket afe exhaust with dpf delete, and a cold air intake. I can tell the truck used to have a programmer of some sort on it, it still has a cable from the obd port to the dash. im not sure what the p.o was running but I was wondering if I should put one on it. am not looking for 300 horse race tunes or anything crazy, just looking to get better efficiency and maby a few more ponies out of it. also read somewhere I should run something and turn off some kind of "regeneration"? im not sure what this is. lastly ive been looking into doing an egr delete. fortionatly I live in a county without smog so it doesn't need to be checked. just wondering If its worth it. what would I be gaining to get rid of it? for one I wont have to worry about it failing which is great but I was curious to the performance benefits? sorry to ask questions that im sure have been gone over but any info, pointers, advise is much appriceated. thanks

 

If the PO had "tuned" the truck it may well have been abused and have problems. The 6.4 and really all new generation emissions controlled diesels require detailed maintenance to be reliable.

Here is my standard 6.4 advice:

The 6.4 does not typically "self destruct", in many cases it is aided in destructing by operator who do not understand the requirements of the new emissions controlled diesels and use them for the wrong type of service, neglect maintenance, etc. Properly operated and maintained the 6.4 and other emissions controlled diesels do just fine.

Now if you are looking at a used one, you have to be concerned about it's useage and maintenance prior to your purchase. Unlike pre-emissions diesels the post-emissions diesels can go bad very quickly if they are neglected or are used for all short trips.

The problem with assessing a used post-emissions diesel is that much of what you want to inspect is not readily visible. On the 6.4 you would ideally want to inspect the following:

- Lower HFCM fuel filter and housing for signs of gunk buildup, and to ensure the filters have been changed.

- Upper fuel filter, looking in the bottom of the housing for signs of rust spots or metal flakes both of which can mean expensive fuel system repairs.

- The water pump back housing for signs of cavitation damage.

- Coolant nitrite test to see if the coolant has been maintained properly.

- Used oil analysis on a sample with ~5k miles on it.

- Check for signs of leaks at the radiator hose connections and the radiator itself.

Since a used vehicle at a dealer has probably recieved a basic service with new oil and filters, some of the information you want will not be available at all.
Clearly the water pump housing can not be inspected in any reasonable fashion. The lower HFCM filter and housing can't be inspected without draining a quart plus of fuel and making a mess so it's not easily inspected.
The upper fuel filter can be inspected fairly easily with a flashlight, wrench and a container to rest the filter in when removed. This is one inspection you should absolutely do since a high pressure fuel pump and injectors is a good $8k repair.
The coolant nitrite test is another quick and easy test you can do, clip a test strip on the end of a long hemostat and just dunk it in the coolant degas tank, wait the 45 seconds and compare the color chart. Most dealers probably won't change the coolant on a used truck so it your nitrite test shows under 300ppm nitrite, reject the truck for neglected maintenance.

My standard maintenance recommendations for the 6.4:

If you have not owned one of the newer emissions controlled diesels previously (any brand), be aware that they are far more dependent on proper maintenance than earlier diesels.

Key 6.4 maintenance items:

* Oil changes every 5,000 miles, with quality oil (synthetic recommended), used oil analysis (Blackstone) for every change. Use only Motorcraft oil filters or the Racor (OEM) equivalent.

* Fuel filter changes every 10,000 miles. Use only Motorcraft FD4617 or the Racor (OEM) equivalent filters.

* Coolant nitrite testing at least every 15,000 miles. I recommend every 5,000 miles at the same time you do the oil change for simplicity, the test strips are inexpensive. Do not be confused by the test directions warning not to sample from an overflow tank, the 6.4 does not have an overflow tank it has a degas bottle. The degas bottle is part of the coolant loop with constant circulation so it is a valid testing point. I do not bother "taking a sample", I simply clip the test strip on the end of a long hemostat and dunk it in the degas bottle to test. If the test is below 800ppm and above 300ppm add two bottles of VC-8 additive. If below 300ppm the entire coolant system must be flushed with VC-9 cleaner, rinsed well and refilled with new coolant.

* Cooling system flush with VC-9 and refill with Ford Gold coolant every 60,000 miles, sooner if you have neglected testing and the nitrite is under 300ppm.

* Use a quality fuel conditioner such as the Ford PM-22a/23a conditioners at every fueling. They add lubricity to the fuel, something that ULSD is lacking in which helps protect the high pressure (up to 26,000 PSI) fuel pump. They also help to reduce soot production which results in less frequent DPF regens and less fuel dilution in the engine oil.

* Drain the HFCM water separator monthly. The fuel drained can be poured back into the tank carefully leaving behind any water at the bottom of the collection jar (normally very little). If the water separator drain does not flow well or at all, it may be clogged with either parafin blobs or with bacterial growth. In either case at a minimum the drain valve cover needs to be removed and the clog cleared. If the clog is significant the HFCM cover needs to be removed for full cleaning. If the clog is white and waxy it's parafin and not a significant issue. If the clog is brown or similar and more slimy it is bacterial growth and the fuel tank should be "shocked" with a biocide such as Power Service Bio-Kleen which should not be confused with their Diesel-Kleen.

* The truck should not be used for all short trips and stop and go traffic. The 6.4 and other emissions controlled diesels need regular longer periods at highway speeds to allow proper DPF regeneration and to get to proper operating temperature to help reduce fuel contamination in the engine oil.

* The latest PCM flash (11B23) does not provide continuous indication of when a DPF regen is taking place, it does however add much improved engine monitoring for developing issues. Over time you will get to recognize the subtle changes, but I recommend adding something like the ScanGauge II which will allow you to monitor the DPF temperature which is a clear indication that a regen is in progress when over ~600F.

* Avoid shutting the truck down with a regen in progress. If you have to, run the engine at high idle for a few minutes in park before shutting down to allow the turbos to cool down to normal temperatures before shutdown. If you are interrupting the regens you will see it in your Blackstone report, otherwise you should see very little fuel dilution, <1%.

You should also absolutely get the Ford ESP extended warranty, any repairs to the 6.4 are expensive and a single big repair can easily cover the cost of the ESP warranty. The coolant nitrite testing that many people overlook *is* in the owner's manual diesel supplement, so if you neglect it Ford can deny warranty coverage for resulting damage.

Other Super Duty maintenance items:

* Batteries - The batteries in these trucks are not the maintanence free / unmaintainable type, pop the caps to check and top up with distilled water periodically.

* Change transfer case fluid every 60,000 miles.

* Change rear differential fluid every 50,000 miles on DANA axles (F350 DRW and up).

* Change transmission fluid and filter every 60,000 miles on Torqshift transmissions (100k on manual transmissions). If you have the early Torqshift with the external filter the interval is much shorter.

Resources:

Coolant test strips - Buy the 4pk, not the bottle of 50, the strips have expiration dates and you'll only need <10 per year. Most dealer parts counters should have the test strips, NAPA has them, or order direct from Acustrip.
Ford Rotunda 328-2050

Used oil testing - Blackstone Labs, get the pre-paid 6pk of test kits to save a few bucks. You don't need the TBN option:
Order Now

Ford ESP extended warrantys - You can buy them online from real dealers, or use the online price from a real dealer to negotiate a better price from your local dealer. You absolutely want the ESP, while the 6.4 is not problematic as some claim as long as you maintain it properly, nearly any repair is big $ and one good one will cover the ESP cost:
Ford Extended Warranty - Get Genuine Ford ESP

DPF, oil, coolant temp monitoring - ScangaugeII, you will need to program the X-gauge commands for the 6.4:
ScanGauge - Trip Computer + Digitial Gauges + ScanTools
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Specific : Linear Logic : Home of the ScanGauge

 

If it doesn't have the DPF it is tuned. Question is what kind, could possibly tell from the cord that is still present. I know with an H&S once you load the tune you can take the programmer off and run it you just won't have the gauges or the ability to change the tune.

The big question is did you buy it from a dealer of a private person, I would go back and see if you can get the tuner, if you have to buy a new one that might cause a little difficulty if it has to returned to stock before the new tuner would work??
Depending on what the tune it is set on now it could be lot of your trans "problems", many tuners have stiff trans routines for running High HP tunes.

 

Man, what they said above, plus you've got a problem. You NEED to find out what kind of tuner was used and if the truck is still tuned. If the DPF is gone and the truck is running OK then you have a tune which may or may not have your EGR turned off and for sure has your DPF off. If you bought from an individual he did you wrong and needs to at least tell you what tune is on the truck. If you bought it from a dealer he should be motivated to help if he can. He broke the law selling it like that. Problem is if it came through an auction he probably won't know. You can drive it the way it is but some tunes are radical and not good for daily driving. And if you want to change anything, like the shift pattern you need to change the tune.

Only thing I can think of is take a picture of the tuner end of the cable and see if we can recognize it. There aren't too many tuners used on the 6.4 but they may have similar looking cables. The interesting part is that in leaving the truck tuned and taking the tuner I think he sorta screwed himself as the tuner won't work on another truck until it is set back to stock and he can't do that except on your truck. Of course if he's some sort of computer whizz there is probably a way to over come that. Good luck, and oh yeah, welcome to the forum.

 

hey thanks for the help guys.
hears a few pic of the truck and the chord that was left in it. its about 5ft long.
hopefully someone may know what kind of tuner it goes with.

 

Does NOT look anything like my H&S Mini. I was trying to think how many delete tuners there were. Edge racing, H&S mini, H&S black max, DPF-R, SCT, Superchips,Spartan and there are probably a couple others.

Edge and H&S were busted by the EPA and won't talk to you much about any tuner that will delete the DPF. They have both quit making and selling them. I think the others might be laying low.

Two suggestions, start a new thread on here and title it "who can ID this tuner cord" or something like that. Also there is a company called Power Hungry Performance or PHP. They have a good web site and forum and do a lot of custom tuning. You might try posting the pics on there or sending them an email with the pics attached. They have a great reputation for customer service and will probably be glad to help.

Once you ID the tuner I don't know what you can do then. most tuners are tied to the truck VIN and won't work on another truck until they have been returned to stock on the truck they are paired with. But, if you know the company they probably have a way to get you back in sync. Good luck.

 

yeah that truck has a tuner of some kind. Pipes are dark too.

If I were you I would be taking it back to where you bought it and get them to put it back to stock programming and put the dpf stuff back on.

Reason is if it needs worked on by ford...well they will need it stock.

What about emissions testing for your state as well?

 

Cant say for sure but that looks exactly like my Scan Gauge 2 cord. Both my ends look exactly the same. The SG2 is not a tuner only tells you the true digital numbers of your vitals. This doesn't explain the black tail pipes though!

 

I have the spartan dash daq and the cord in the picture doesn't match mine. It would be in your best interest to get the stock exhaust components and have them if you ever plan to sell. It is a lot easier to sell an unmodified diesel versus a modified one. The dpf is an expensive component also.

 

Does the company that makes the scan gauge also make a tuner? If so perhaps they use the same cord? On edit: Linear Logic makes it and they don't seem to be connected with any tuner company.

 

if they did not leave behind the scan gauge II display, they wouldnt leave the tuner behind...problem with not having the orginal tuner is that now your PCM is vin locked to that tuner, and i dont think you can use any other tuner until you have ford reprogram/reformat your pcm. i know alot of those DPF delete kits are really spendy, i think you are mostly paying for the tuner because of the EPA cutting out so many of the delete providers, you get a tuner and a pipe for $2k thats nuts. plus yeah if he kept the tuner, and did not return to stock, he cant even use it or anything else because they are vin locked. i am no expert in this area, i am still learning on these 6.4s. but that diffently looks like scan gauge 2 cord, i just put one on last week....which is mostly used for digital guages, the physical tunner doesnt stay on the truck, you just plug it in and program it and unplug it.

 

Which tuner are you thinking he used, and why buy a scan gauge if you have a tuner. don't most of them provide everything the scan gauge does? Except maybe the DPF-R (i think) which just disables the DPF and leaves everything else stock. Are there any other tuners like that?

 

there is really no way to tell what kind of tuner they used. The scan gauge is used as digital gauge to read exactly what you want to look at. most tuners dont stay in the truck, so therefore the need for the scan gauge, anyone that tunes a 6.0 or 6.4 knows that you need a way to monitor your vitals, scan gauge is the quickest and cheapest way to do so. so thats why that cord is in there. one thing to do is maybe look at the DPF delete pipe, and see if there is a brand name, part number that would say where they may have bought the delete pipe from and then you may know what tuner would normaly come with that delete pipe? just an idea. the work i do on my 6.0 and 6.4 i use a SCT tuner, which doesnt stay in the truck, and then i use a scan gauge to monitor my vitals, which is installed on the dash with that cord that goes to the OBD...now if you want to monitor EGT on a 6.0 L you have to use a guage like Edge insight with the EGT probe. there are some tuners that come as all in one, tuner and gauge, but are gennerally alot more money...and would require more than that little cat 5 cable to run....on the 6.4s i think they have a factory EGT sensor, whereas the 6.0'Ls do not, so you might be able to watch EGT with a scan gauge 2 on a 6.4...i think...

 

Well, OK but I've had an edge racing and an H&S mini and both worked as a tuner and gauges. they both monitored a dozen or so items and present up to 4 on the display. you are the first person to tell me then tuners don't stay in the truck. I guess they could be stolen but they are pretty much useless unless tuned back to stock.

But this conversation did remind me of something. Here in the ATL area we have a guy advertising on craigs list that he will come by and retune the stock computer any way you want it including delete dpf and or egrs. i wonder if the previous owner had someone do something like that then use the scan gage to monitor. Either way the OP has a problem and a riddle to solve. He can either drive it as is or go to ford and have the programmer flashed back to stock and then buy a DPF. UGH.

 

Looks like a standard RJ45 to ODB connector cable. They're about $10 each online. I have 2 of them :-)
For sure, Scangauge uses them. Not sure about what other tuners use. H&S uses a custom OBD dongle
with an HDMI cable, so it's not an H&S

One way to see if the truck's been tuned recently is inspect the DPF/CAT and see if there are handprints, tool marks/wear on the nuts/gaskets, etc....

As for black tailpipes....I've see quite a few '08's with black tailpipes even with the DPF still on!