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Old 12-05-2012, 09:25 PM
Melody Guzman Melody Guzman is offline
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95 powerstroke mechanical pump/check valve/ fuel line question.

Gathering parts for my '95 powerstroke conversion and had at first hoped to plumb into the fuel line after the second stage of the pumping process(mechanical stock pump), but could not find find a suitable location with enough room(big turbo charge thingy makes space cramped). My plan is to delete the fuel bowl and mechanical pump, and bring the heated WVO and the diesel to a solenoid whose output goes into the banjo bolt, using two separate electric pumps, FASS for the VO and a Bosch for the diesel and replacing the regulated return that is mounted to the fuel bowl with an aeromotive regulated return that supplies another solenoid which can choose which tank the returning fuel goes to so as not to mix the diesel with the wvo. My questions are; Do I need checkvalves in this set up, should I make the wvo fuel lines larger than the stock diesel ones (3/8 rubber and 5/16 aluminum), and finally, do I really need to do a fuel bowl delete and replace the mech pump with an electric one? Any help is appreciated.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:05 AM
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SkySkiJason SkySkiJason is offline
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I replied in the other thread...

There are more than one way to do this. I need to study the OBS fuel system more to answer how to use it - but if using the OE fuel pump, you'll need to use 3way valves to select which tank/fuel you are drawing from. Then put a 2nd 3way valve on the return line (currently after the heads).

You could also delete the mech. fuel pump and use elect. pumps and FPR's. With this design, you'd use check valves before the heads to prevent cross-contamination. Since you'd be replacing fuel lines anyway, I'd probably run both fuels up to CV's and into a manifold block, then feed fuel to the front of the heads. The back of the heads will tee together and go to a normally-closed 12v valve. This will allow you to 'purge' the VO out of the heads/injectors by sending diesel thru the heads and back to the VO tank.

Here's what my manifold looked like on my original conversion. The VO checkvalve is behind the alternator, diesel CV is on front of manifold. The fittings on top are for gauges and the 1/4" copper goes to heads.
Click the image to open in full size.

The copper fuel lines are a bad idea and they didn't stay on there long. The weatherhead fuel hose also sucked - I strongly recommend PTFE-lined SS braided hoses on the engine!

This is looking forward under drivers side of truck. Here you see end of HIH for supply and return lines, fuel pump, FPR (the purge solenoid sat next to the FPR, but wasn't in this pic), and VO filter w/copper HE wrapped around it.
Click the image to open in full size.


This is drivers-side rear fuel port...
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:45 AM
Melody Guzman Melody Guzman is offline
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Thanks!

Thanks!! You have inspired me to rethink the hoses I had thought to use. I had planned to use aluminum fuel line and the black rubbery(neoprene or rubber?) line similar to what connects the regulated return to the metal fuel return line? I want to do this right, so if that is a problem I'd love to know. I have spent months researching this site and others to come up with my little plan. On the VO side, I will have, in this order: heated 50 gallon aluminum tank(2 twenty five gallon tanks welded together with the wavy steel freon channel I pulled off an old refridgerator inside the tank)-HIH-150+micron inline Fuel Strainer or a sedimenter(having trouble finding this one locally)-Fass WVO pump set to 70PSI-FPRw/Guage(set to 50psi)-coarse filter/water seperator(Napa)(30microns)-Fuel pressure guage-fine filter(5 microns)-Fuel pressure Guage-HIH-Solenoid-fuel rail-Aeromotive regulated return with Guage-Solenoid-back to which ever tank I select(switching from VO to diesel I leave the return on veg for half a minute to purge. On the diesel side it will be simpler! tank-Bosch pump(Do I need an FPR on the way in? Or will the Aeromotive regulated return be sufficient)-solenoid-rail(both fuel lines will be going into the same hose after the solenoid fitting into a Banjo Bolt assembly I will put together from directions I found online)aeromotive Regul. Return-then back to the selected tank via the second solenoid. Another question I have is should I make the fuel lines on the Veg side larger? I heard that was good to do, but worry about the flow encountering a sudden restriction as it arrives at the 5/16th Banjo tee. Should I add a coolant pump for all the extra travel? Hoping to begin this weekend!!
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:47 AM
Melody Guzman Melody Guzman is offline
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With the above set up do I still need check valves?
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:54 AM
Melody Guzman Melody Guzman is offline
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I am planning to have all of my fuel follow the same path into the engine through the banjo fitting. On this truck it is not deadheaded so I presumed it would be best(since I will probably delete the mech pump anyway) if I had it all enter at the same place on the rails in the back of the engine.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:58 AM
Melody Guzman Melody Guzman is offline
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Oops forgot to mention the temp guage inline before the Solenoid/rails on the veg side.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:38 AM
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You can buy (2) OE-type fuel pumps and FPR's for what the FASS costs. Besides, the FASS has a limited lifespan and will cost 3x another OE-type pump to rebuild and leave you w/o a fuel pump for at least a week while they rebuild it. I spent several $100 on diesel when my last FASS failure happened because I was on the road.

$40 OE-type fuel pump: (lifetime warranty)
New Fuel Pump Installation Kit Ford Pickup Van 7 3L Diesel E2236 | eBay

I've run an OE-type fuel pump and the Magnafuel FPR for the majority of the 170k veggin' miles I have on my F350. I'm no longer a fan of the FASS... Worst case scenario, every autoparts store in the country can get a PSD pump the next morning - if its not already on the shelf! It takes just minutes to swap it out and be greasin' again!

You can use something like a WIX 33972 filter before the fuel pumps. Available from O'Riellys or NAPA.
Wix 33972 & Napa 3972 Fuel Filter: FleetFilter Secure Online Store

Water-separating filters can not/do not/will not remove water from WVO - skip this unnecessary addition to your design.

You only need to measure fuel pressure in one place. You wanna see the pressure the heads/injectors are getting. This is enough to tell you a filter is getting plugged up. You could measure vacuum between the pumps and pre-pump filter, but thats still superfluous IMHO.

3/8" fuel lines are adequate up to the tee to the heads. I suppose you can use the existing tee to the heads - can you post a pic of this and the OE FPR for me?

30R9 'fuel injection hose' is adequate, but I know somebody who's using this:
3384 | Black Push-Lock Hose

I recommend the ptfe-lined SS braided hose on the engine. Since 'rubber' hose has a limited lifespan with all the heat, oil and degreaser, etc its exposed to up there. The aluminum tubing (TIH) is fine elsewhere.

This is what my engine fuel lines look like now:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

You can DIY these hoses from discounthydraulichose or get them made at a local hose shop. Note - if you use this hose you MUST protect everything from it. It will wear a hole in anything it touches!! I just sliced cheap hose and put on mine, but you can slip vinyl tubing or similar over it before assembly for a cleaner look.

If you are gonna use (2) fuel pumps, I would switch to a deadheaded design and use CV's. This will make the simplest and most reliable system. You can use a manifold block like I posted above (mcmaster.com) and put your CV's, fuel pressure and temp senders in it. Then plumb the other side of the heads to a normally-closed 12v valve for purge.

YES, I highly recommend the coolant pump. We were getting these for about $60 - but somebody recently said they've gone up...

I didn't understand what yer doing with the 'wavy steel freon channel I pulled off an old refridgerator'?? Heating the whole tank is not the best design and carbon steel (or especially copper) in contact with VO is baaaaaaad. I suggest using something like the Hot Fox or building your own 'heated pick-up' that focuses the heat in the area where the fuel is being drawn from the tank. If you do put a HE in the tank, make sure your design includes protection from movement as a result of sloshing fuel - but specifically, something akin to a root beer float. Picture a semi-solid chunk of cold VO banging around in the tank like a wrecking ball when you take off, slow down and negotiate corners.

Speaking of HEAT. If ya put the VO pump, FPR, etc under the cab - then you can run the return from FPR in TIH and instead of dumping it back in the VO tank, tee it into the suction line where it leaves the tank. This creates a 'looped return' which will add copious amounts of heat to your VO and greatly reduces the strain on the fuel pump. Also, do a 'coolant wrap' on your VO filter like you can see in the pic I posted above. If your TIH 'loop' is at least 12-15ft and you have an adequate heated pick-up - you should see more than adequate VO temps before the heads without the need for a FPHE.

So, you're veggie plumbing will go like this - VO tank, heated pick-up, tee, TIH to pre-pump filter, VO pump, FPR ('return' from FPR will go in TIH back to the tee at heated pick-up), VO filter and on up to CV and manifold block.

Diesel will go from D2 tank to pre-filter, pump, FPR (return to tank), to D2 filter (use a water-separating filter here! ) and up to CV and manifold block.

The purge will go to 12v valve under cab and return to VO tank. Run this hose/tubing parallel to the VO lines in HOH fashion, so ya don't end up with gelled fuel and inability to purge in cooooooold weather.

For coolant, tee into the heater core hoses. The 'return' line goes to top of water pump. You want the hottest coolant to hit the TIH between VO tank and pump first, then in-tank HE, then TIH for return from VO FPR, then coolant pump and finally coolant wrap on VO filter. I also recommend putting a valve on the supply to heater core for colder AC in the summer , but also on the supply to the VO loop so you can turn OFF the heat to veggie-system in the event ya won't be burning VO or wanna put D2 in this tank. You don't wanna 'cook' VO returning 500mi home after ya used all yer high cholesterol fuel and you never wanna heat D2.

Also, consider adding a valve before and after the VO filter. Before the filter allows you to change filter w/o draining the tank while you are changing it and after the filter allows you to isolate VO system in the event you had a CV failure or perhaps ran over a Prius and ripped part of your system out.
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2000 Excursion, Limited, 4x4, BTS trans, 120k on veggie! - wrecked spring 2013 - RIP
veggiegarage.com authorized installer
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:38 PM
Melody Guzman Melody Guzman is offline
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Thanks for you help!!

Thank you for all the helpfull information!! Been busy removing the pump. the fuel bowl, and polishing my filthy engine. I am 3 hours from civilization and the guys at NAPA could not find a 7/8 inch freezer plug, so I have to wait till it stops raining to go to town again to get the stuff I need. Figuring out brackets and mounting places, wish I had thought of that before. Everything takes forever. Today I scratched my head forever trying to place my first solenoid somewhere, they look like this.

WVO SVO solenoid valve DC12 volt 12&quot NPT wholesales ,FYStore.com
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:38 PM
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