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Old 10-10-2012, 10:09 AM
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Simple fix...now into my second 7.3 disaster

Well I feel like a complete idiot and am sort of stumped on what to do next. To make a long story short I had a neutral position switch issue for some time. I kept having to depress the clutch further and further to the floor to the point where I was pushing it into the floor to activate the switch. I got on here back in this thread:

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/...switch+problem


Asked what the issue might be. I was instructed to look at the plastic bushing that connects the master cylinder shaft to the lever arm. Well sure enough I had a ton of play in there and ended up ordering the heim joint fix for this. Well last night I got under their , and cut off the eye, took off the 18mm nut holding the lever arm on, and pulled the lever arm off. Went over and ground off the weld and pressed the old pin out. Popped the new bolt in there and attached the heim joint. Got back under there and got my distance correct so there was no slop in the shaft and female end of the heim and tightened down the set screw…


First impression was wow the slop was completely gone and I was super happy with the lever feel. So the true test, I pressed down and turned the key….nothing, before I used to be able to press the pedal to the floor and now I’d say it sat 1/2 inch off the floor, So I thought I might go ahead and keep pressing, that is when something gave. The pedal did not come back up either….


I first thought it was the teeth that are on the lever arm, so I pulled the lever arm off and inspected, nope they are all there. Then looking at the master cylinder shaft I notice the shaft did not come back out, it looks like it was hung up. So I put the lever arm back on, tightened down the 18mm nut, and retightened the set screw onto the master cylinder shaft and tried to pull up on the pedal to release it from the depressed position …That’s when it gave! Sweet it came back up!!! Not so fast!!! I then notice the lever arm never moved…So it hit me…there went the teeth on the arm… I remove the 18mm and sure enough all the ****ing teeth are gone… this is when I stopped… took a moment and thought about how such a simple fix just completely turned into a shat show.


First off replacing the lever arm is not a big deal. I can find one. I’m now worried about what is going on with my hydraulics and shift fork. The fact the shaft did not release out of the master makes me think that when the pedal stopped ,and I pressed a bit more that over extended the shaft in the master and I damaged it… However this also leads me to believe that I may have bent the shift fork. I did some research and it is a common problem for the 7.3 ZF5/6 to have a bent fork due to the poor design.


So my question to all of you is how can I tell my shift fork is bent? I removed the inspection cover and need to look in there with a mirror, but I’m not sure what to look for. Here is a picture of where my shift lever and slave currently sits… doesn’t seem right to me… or is it? Can someone go take a pic of where theirs sits when the pedal is not depressed…


Click the image to open in full size.

If the fork is trash I need to drop the tranny as well… Does anyone got a quick link to a thread that is step by step for that? I have done a few before but not a ZF5.. I Just wanted to know if there were any tricks. I was there under the truck when the mechanic put the clutch in but it was 10 feet in the air and he had a nice tranny jack to move the tranny around with…I have an atv jack and boards.


I think I paid an azz load for new hydraulics when we put the clutch in. Does anyone have a link for oem hydraulics that won’t break the bank? Its sad but these were brand new 8k miles ago….


Also I found this for a replacement fork if it is bad, but is this the original design, or can I find a better fork?

http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-...l-1987-97.html




Here is a pic of the teeth missing on the lever arm.

Click the image to open in full size.
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96 F250 CCSB One nasty 12V Fummins 3:55's, Wife's future baby wagon
97 SCLB 7.3 PSD ZF5, 4:10'S, DP tuner, 6637, 4" Bellows, T4 w s366, Efuel, 3" plenums w/ 6.0 IC/Rosewood Stage 1/waterinjection /T500
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:25 AM
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Anyone have a spare one of these sitting around with good teeth ?

Click the image to open in full size.
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96 F250 CCSB One nasty 12V Fummins 3:55's, Wife's future baby wagon
97 SCLB 7.3 PSD ZF5, 4:10'S, DP tuner, 6637, 4" Bellows, T4 w s366, Efuel, 3" plenums w/ 6.0 IC/Rosewood Stage 1/waterinjection /T500
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:10 AM
fordman67 fordman67 is offline
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Sure wish i did.if you havent by sat,i will look at the salvage yard as i have to go and find a seat belt buckle.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:25 AM
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Found this one but I sure as heck dont see splines on it...

BRAND NEW CLUTCH PEDAL LEVER 1987-1997 FORD F150 F250 F350 FSD BRONCO | eBay
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97 SCLB 7.3 PSD ZF5, 4:10'S, DP tuner, 6637, 4" Bellows, T4 w s366, Efuel, 3" plenums w/ 6.0 IC/Rosewood Stage 1/waterinjection /T500
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:36 AM
fordman67 fordman67 is offline
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I think the shaft actually cuts into it to form them when installed.tasca ford is not gonna sell no junk.big name there
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:36 AM
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Well It is the correct part number...just got off the phone with Ford and there is one close by...29 bucks. Pick that up today... then on to hydraulics....


You are correct they are not splined form the factory

Master cylinder is 145... I'm thinking I will not have to replace the slave or line for any certain reason.
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97 SCLB 7.3 PSD ZF5, 4:10'S, DP tuner, 6637, 4" Bellows, T4 w s366, Efuel, 3" plenums w/ 6.0 IC/Rosewood Stage 1/waterinjection /T500
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:53 AM
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Prob not.just over extended that masters travel.sorry mam.i know it puts me in a funk when my junk is down. Mostly cause i feel like a pimp in my truck...not so much in the dodge...
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:07 PM
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What usually causes the stripped splines is when you re-install the lever, you don't get it set on the old splines and end up cutting new splines between the old splines weakening the splines too much and they strip when you push the pedal. I have had this happen before, but I bypass the clutch switch on all my trucks so that has never been a problem for me.

So now that everything is pulled apart, will the clutch master pushrod pull back out or is it still pressed into the master? Can't say I've ever seen the clutch master break in the way your describing, but stranger things have happened. If the pushrod is still stuck, replace the master, lever, bleed the system and hope for the best.

As far as figuring out if the clutch fork is bent, you will have to pull it out to figure that out, but if everything was working ok before, I wouldn't be too worried about that.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:14 PM
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Is it actually possible for the slave cylinder to over-travel far enough to bend the clutch fork? I wouldn't think that was possible, but I guess I could be wrong. I could see damaging the master if you tried to make it travel too far, but the slave...
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokin'_tatsch View Post
What usually causes the stripped splines is when you re-install the lever, you don't get it set on the old splines and end up cutting new splines between the old splines weakening the splines too much and they strip when you push the pedal. I have had this happen before, but I bypass the clutch switch on all my trucks so that has never been a problem for me.

So now that everything is pulled apart, will the clutch master pushrod pull back out or is it still pressed into the master? Can't say I've ever seen the clutch master break in the way your describing, but stranger things have happened. If the pushrod is still stuck, replace the master, lever, bleed the system and hope for the best.

As far as figuring out if the clutch fork is bent, you will have to pull it out to figure that out, but if everything was working ok before, I wouldn't be too worried about that.


Well this was sort of good to hear... Everything was fine before... I just was having issues with the switch and like I said I had to keep pressing down further to activate it.

The rod/plunger is still pressed into the master and I am unable to pull it out. I stripped the clutch arm pulling upward on the pedal thinking this would pull the plunger rod back out.

Can I ask How do you bypass your clutch switch... I want to do this as well. I'm frankly really sick of this danm switch!

I have the a new master and lever now. I was looking at the hrdraulic lines and I am used to seeing threaded fittings. Where exactly and how does the upper end of the hard line detach from the master? Is it a roll pin or something?

I will put both in tonight and bleed it and hopefully I have a running truck again without having to pull the tranny. I really do not want to do this.. So far I'll have the 40 dollar heim fix, a 150 dollar master, and a 30 dollar lever into this mess over a darn switch. I was just trying to fix it right, and I am not positive how I messed it up...besides maybe assing a bit of length to the rod with the heim, and therefore ruining the master....
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97 SCLB 7.3 PSD ZF5, 4:10'S, DP tuner, 6637, 4" Bellows, T4 w s366, Efuel, 3" plenums w/ 6.0 IC/Rosewood Stage 1/waterinjection /T500
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYMechanic View Post
Is it actually possible for the slave cylinder to over-travel far enough to bend the clutch fork? I wouldn't think that was possible, but I guess I could be wrong. I could see damaging the master if you tried to make it travel too far, but the slave...

Yeah thats what I was hoping, I posted the pic of the position of the slave currently in hopes of someone else posting their slave position pic with the clutch engaged and disengaged. I however wouldn't put it pass hydraulic power to bend it...I know I can pull the fork towards the slave about a inch or more by hand and heavy pressure, but I'm not postive of position of where the fork is supposed to be with the clutch iengaged and disengaged... Just something I have not looked at too often. It just seems the slave pushrod is pretty extended...

I thought this may be because of the masterpush rod not releasing but am not sure that is the case. The hard part is I can't tell if the clutch is in the engaged or disengaged position looking at the flywheel... and am not certain of the rod position which also could be null if the fork is bent...

Anyways...we will see tonight...
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97 SCLB 7.3 PSD ZF5, 4:10'S, DP tuner, 6637, 4" Bellows, T4 w s366, Efuel, 3" plenums w/ 6.0 IC/Rosewood Stage 1/waterinjection /T500
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:18 PM
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I guess my question was less whether the slave cylinder COULD bend the clutch fork, and more whether it was able to extend far enough to do so. I guess it is possible that the clutch pedal travel is what is supposed to limit the travel of the whole mechanism so that nothing can get hurt, but IDK.

And yeah, I am no help on the clutch fork positions either. I have nothing to compare it to...
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:19 PM
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I went back up and looked at the pic of the slave cylinder and to me it looked extended, disengaging the clutch, but it's hard to tell b/c the slave cylinder doesn't push the clutch fork very far before it disengages the clutch. Can you put the truck in gear and try to push it? That would tell you for sure. I would want to know before I pulled the line off the master b/c it will be under pressure if the plunger is pushed in.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:56 PM
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If the clutch is disenaged with the truck in this state, then there's something wrong internally. The pressure plate fingers should provide enough spring tension to push the fork back, push the slave rod in, push the fluid and ultimately push the master pushrod to the "resting" position. It's possible, of course, that the lever splines failed right at the same time there was a major failure of the pressure plate fingers, but that would be like lightning striking twice. If the hydraulics are indeed extended, and the fork is as well, it's more likely, as stated on that other forum and as your research suggests, a bent fork.

If you're worried about the position of the master pushrod, and you're sure you cut it and installed the Heim joint so that it's the proper length, just do this as a check - pull the pedal back up, and temporarily hang the old lever on the shaft, and see where the stud for the Heim joint on the lever meets the joint itself on the pushrod. If that looks like it's in its correct position, you should be golden with everything downstream (hydraulics, fork, internals).
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYMechanic View Post
I guess my question was less whether the slave cylinder COULD bend the clutch fork, and more whether it was able to extend far enough to do so. I guess it is possible that the clutch pedal travel is what is supposed to limit the travel of the whole mechanism so that nothing can get hurt, but IDK.

And yeah, I am no help on the clutch fork positions either. I have nothing to compare it to...
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by strokin'_tatsch View Post
I went back up and looked at the pic of the slave cylinder and to me it looked extended, disengaging the clutch, but it's hard to tell b/c the slave cylinder doesn't push the clutch fork very far before it disengages the clutch. Can you put the truck in gear and try to push it? That would tell you for sure. I would want to know before I pulled the line off the master b/c it will be under pressure if the plunger is pushed in.
I will give this a shot when I get home. Didn't think of doing this at the moment I was so frustrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
If the clutch is disenaged with the truck in this state, then there's something wrong internally. The pressure plate fingers should provide enough spring tension to push the fork back, push the slave rod in, push the fluid and ultimately push the master pushrod to the "resting" position. It's possible, of course, that the lever splines failed right at the same time there was a major failure of the pressure plate fingers, but that would be like lightning striking twice. If the hydraulics are indeed extended, and the fork is as well, it's more likely, as stated on that other forum and as your research suggests, a bent fork.

If you're worried about the position of the master pushrod, and you're sure you cut it and installed the Heim joint so that it's the proper length, just do this as a check - pull the pedal back up, and temporarily hang the old lever on the shaft, and see where the stud for the Heim joint on the lever meets the joint itself on the pushrod. If that looks like it's in its correct position, you should be golden with everything downstream (hydraulics, fork, internals).
I know for a fact the master pushrod did not come back out after I depressed the clutch, when lining everything up last night it was what made me notice it never released. That when I put the heim back on the shaft when the pedal was on the floor and connected the arm back to the pedal assembly, and then pulled up on the pedal trying to release the pushrod in the master...this is what stripped the clutch arm.

Now I'm trying to figure out what the damage was when I pushed the clutch down... I know it jammed the rod too far into the master binding the rod, now is that going to force enough fluid to the slave to over extend the clutch fork? I dont know.

I also agree the the slave looks like its in the extended position, which makes sense since the damm master never released, which means that line must be pressurized. With the assistance of the finger springs I can push the slave rod back into the slave cylinder with a lot of pressure from me and then it shoot back out. Which makes me to believe there is adequate pressure behind it.

I need to pop the line off the master to get the fugging new one on without a pressurized line...but I simply can't extend the rod back out of the master to release the pressure....

What do yah think?

Hopefully its not the clutch fork.
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