2011 Escape. Does it look totaled?
#1
10-06-2012, 07:00 AM
2011 Escape. Does it look totaled?
Thursday evening while dead asleep, I get the phone call noone wants:
"sir, your wife has been involved in a traffic collision, you need to come immediantly!" Me: "IS SHE OK??" them: "she is alive and consious, but beaten up pretty good."
Long story short, she was beaten up good. Most done by the damn airbag. But overall, just fine. Still a little sore but ok. She only had to stay at the hospital for a few hours so x-rays could be done. They all looked ok thank God. A 17 yr old girl had decided to make a left hand turn right as my wife was entering the intersection going the opposite direction. The girl received tickets for failure to yield and failure to reduce speed to avoid a collision. SHE was unharmed.
THis is what my car looks like. The whole thing is tweeked. Front struts bent. The whole front end is pushed over about 3 inches. The side doors close ok, but the tailgate is tweeked and hits the sides when you open and close it. It does run, but the motor mounts and entire engine cradle is tweeked.
Im glad nobody was severly injured, but SUPER PISSED about the car. I was planning on paying it off with my tax refund. Plus, its been a great car and has given us no problems.
"sir, your wife has been involved in a traffic collision, you need to come immediantly!" Me: "IS SHE OK??" them: "she is alive and consious, but beaten up pretty good."
Long story short, she was beaten up good. Most done by the damn airbag. But overall, just fine. Still a little sore but ok. She only had to stay at the hospital for a few hours so x-rays could be done. They all looked ok thank God. A 17 yr old girl had decided to make a left hand turn right as my wife was entering the intersection going the opposite direction. The girl received tickets for failure to yield and failure to reduce speed to avoid a collision. SHE was unharmed.
THis is what my car looks like. The whole thing is tweeked. Front struts bent. The whole front end is pushed over about 3 inches. The side doors close ok, but the tailgate is tweeked and hits the sides when you open and close it. It does run, but the motor mounts and entire engine cradle is tweeked.
Im glad nobody was severly injured, but SUPER PISSED about the car. I was planning on paying it off with my tax refund. Plus, its been a great car and has given us no problems.
#2
10-06-2012, 09:17 PM
When your insurance adjuster comes and visits you, he will tell if its totalled or not. That is sometimes. Sometimes the car has to be evaluated more at a body shop to confirm a "total". Again though, it is amazing what they can do today in straigtening out frames and whatnot. All done by computers. Don't give up on it yet.
#3
10-06-2012, 11:32 PM
Glad your wife is OK!!!
That's bad. Lots of damage when the whole structure gets pushed sideways like that. Can extend far far inwards.
IF the tailgate tweeking was caused by the front collision, and NOT by a resulting spin such that the rear of the Escape hit something in a secondary collision, then that would show that the whole body is tweeked!
What a mess that would be.
There will be lots of hidden damage. The list of parts and labor and special handling that will be required on this job is loooong.
A good body shop will do their own independent estimate before pulling anything apart, and will guesstimate what the hidden damages will be. They don't want to get into repair, then find out that the insurance company won't handle supplements for all the hidden damage. Insurance adjusters can estimate way low sometimes. Even laughingly low, when you just don't feel like laughing.
Just looking at the one picture, and the tailgate issue, and that the car will be entered into the system upon repair (and can be tracked by carfax and the like, forever lowering it's value for anyone who checks that out), I think if it were me, I would be hoping that they total it. Negotiate up the final check amount, and move on.
It may take your wife years to get over the skittish feeling, and the automatic tensing of the body when she enters an intersection at speed, when there is a car waiting for or coming up to make a left-hand turn in front of her. Always wondering "is this the next one?"
The whole thing is tweeked. Front struts bent. The whole front end is pushed over about 3 inches.
The side doors close ok, but the tailgate is tweeked and hits the sides when you open and close it
What a mess that would be.
There will be lots of hidden damage. The list of parts and labor and special handling that will be required on this job is loooong.
A good body shop will do their own independent estimate before pulling anything apart, and will guesstimate what the hidden damages will be. They don't want to get into repair, then find out that the insurance company won't handle supplements for all the hidden damage. Insurance adjusters can estimate way low sometimes. Even laughingly low, when you just don't feel like laughing.
Just looking at the one picture, and the tailgate issue, and that the car will be entered into the system upon repair (and can be tracked by carfax and the like, forever lowering it's value for anyone who checks that out), I think if it were me, I would be hoping that they total it. Negotiate up the final check amount, and move on.
It may take your wife years to get over the skittish feeling, and the automatic tensing of the body when she enters an intersection at speed, when there is a car waiting for or coming up to make a left-hand turn in front of her. Always wondering "is this the next one?"
#4
10-07-2012, 04:48 AM
Thanks for the responses guys,
The more and more I think about it, I dont really want that car back. What really makes me mad is that I had a perfectly good car, that was just over a year old that is now destroyed. Even if its fixed Ill still know it was wrecked and you are right, once they report it, its value will be diminished forever because of the wreck. We all know that no matter how good the shop is, the car is never going to be the same, and who knows what kind of related problems I'll have down the road with squeaks or rattles and such? Who'll pay to have those fixed 6mos a year later? NOT ME!
Their adjustor is going to evaluate the car sometime monday and will let me know their decision. At that time, I am going to tell me that a repair is not acceptable to me and see what that gets me. I will let them know what my concerns are as far as diminished value, hidden damage and the fact that I dont want my wife driving a wreck around. After all, it was THEIR client that hit my wife, who was just minding her own business coming home from work. Since that is the case, they have to play ball.
The more and more I think about it, I dont really want that car back. What really makes me mad is that I had a perfectly good car, that was just over a year old that is now destroyed. Even if its fixed Ill still know it was wrecked and you are right, once they report it, its value will be diminished forever because of the wreck. We all know that no matter how good the shop is, the car is never going to be the same, and who knows what kind of related problems I'll have down the road with squeaks or rattles and such? Who'll pay to have those fixed 6mos a year later? NOT ME!
Their adjustor is going to evaluate the car sometime monday and will let me know their decision. At that time, I am going to tell me that a repair is not acceptable to me and see what that gets me. I will let them know what my concerns are as far as diminished value, hidden damage and the fact that I dont want my wife driving a wreck around. After all, it was THEIR client that hit my wife, who was just minding her own business coming home from work. Since that is the case, they have to play ball.
#5
10-07-2012, 08:20 AM
I would bet on repair. Good body shops can make it exactly as it was when it rolled off the line. They have laser and reflectors that can be hung from specific points on the body/chassis/unibody that feed back to a computer with an overhead view of the particular model. It will display numbers indicating parts are within mm of their factory spec.
The computer just displays, and does not tell the tech where to fasten, and what way to pull. That is all in the skill of the person doing the work.
Unless the whole 'roof' has been whanged one way or the other, or there was a secondary collision after the initial impact, I don't see how the liftgate could have gotten involved, unless 'plastic' parts that align it when it is closing were snapped. Inspection would help.
It is even possible the damage did not get into the radiator support, which is not easy to replace. The adjuster as noted previously will do an initial examination, and take many pictures with a tape measure layed across around or near the parts in question, will note doorjamb gaps for variation, width, evenness, etc. Then go into a computer program that lists all the parts, how much time to remove, straighten, replace, etc, and then there is 'blend' time for the paint man...
The decision is all in the math, and the insured has very little say-so in the 'total' or repair decision. You can indicate to your adjuster that if it is close to a total on 1st inspection, without doing re-assessment for supplements, you'd want them to write it off. You don't get what you owe, but the current value based on viewable condition, mileage, etc. If you have new tires, make sure they are noted. If the tank is full of gas, that should be noted, after they do the original writeup. Good adjusters are not out to take advantage of their customers. If you feel 'ripped off', you'll be telling everyone you meet how bad "Freedom Ins" is when you make a claim, and they don't really want that.
In fact, many adjusters are independent.
In my opinion, I would recommend a body shop that is 'certified' by your insurance company. When you do that, if there are supps to be written, the body shop can order the parts, etc, to minimize wait, and have all that going on instead of waiting for the adjuster to come by and do another inspection. The major insurance companies all have plans with their body shops where they authorize them to write supps as necessary. It really speeds up the process.
If you get it back, don't be afraid to do a thorough walk-around inspection. Note any discrepancies, and make arrangements to come back if necessary for additional work. Some times specific parts are not available, and you can end up waiting for them to be made, where you could be driving without that part until it is available.
Try to find Camry headlight pigtails... I dare you. Took me two weeks, and the car had to sit until I could find them. The dealer couldn't, or maybe wanted to sell a full underhood harness ($$$$$) instead of a couple of $20 pigtails. They had been damaged in the accident, or actually were dragged off to the trash when the bumper cover and headlight assemblies were disposed of. The wires had been cut in the accident.
tom
The computer just displays, and does not tell the tech where to fasten, and what way to pull. That is all in the skill of the person doing the work.
Unless the whole 'roof' has been whanged one way or the other, or there was a secondary collision after the initial impact, I don't see how the liftgate could have gotten involved, unless 'plastic' parts that align it when it is closing were snapped. Inspection would help.
It is even possible the damage did not get into the radiator support, which is not easy to replace. The adjuster as noted previously will do an initial examination, and take many pictures with a tape measure layed across around or near the parts in question, will note doorjamb gaps for variation, width, evenness, etc. Then go into a computer program that lists all the parts, how much time to remove, straighten, replace, etc, and then there is 'blend' time for the paint man...
The decision is all in the math, and the insured has very little say-so in the 'total' or repair decision. You can indicate to your adjuster that if it is close to a total on 1st inspection, without doing re-assessment for supplements, you'd want them to write it off. You don't get what you owe, but the current value based on viewable condition, mileage, etc. If you have new tires, make sure they are noted. If the tank is full of gas, that should be noted, after they do the original writeup. Good adjusters are not out to take advantage of their customers. If you feel 'ripped off', you'll be telling everyone you meet how bad "Freedom Ins" is when you make a claim, and they don't really want that.
In fact, many adjusters are independent.
In my opinion, I would recommend a body shop that is 'certified' by your insurance company. When you do that, if there are supps to be written, the body shop can order the parts, etc, to minimize wait, and have all that going on instead of waiting for the adjuster to come by and do another inspection. The major insurance companies all have plans with their body shops where they authorize them to write supps as necessary. It really speeds up the process.
If you get it back, don't be afraid to do a thorough walk-around inspection. Note any discrepancies, and make arrangements to come back if necessary for additional work. Some times specific parts are not available, and you can end up waiting for them to be made, where you could be driving without that part until it is available.
Try to find Camry headlight pigtails... I dare you. Took me two weeks, and the car had to sit until I could find them. The dealer couldn't, or maybe wanted to sell a full underhood harness ($$$$$) instead of a couple of $20 pigtails. They had been damaged in the accident, or actually were dragged off to the trash when the bumper cover and headlight assemblies were disposed of. The wires had been cut in the accident.
tom
#6
10-07-2012, 09:03 AM
A good shop will return it to factory specs.
Anything can be repaired if you throw enough money at it.
That is the deciding factor.
Will the insurance pay?
Insurance companies have a break point percentage on repair or total.
As for supplements the insurance will pay if they are necessary and the tear down will find out if the first estimate was off.
tomw makes a lot of good points in his post.
If it is repaired you may want to sell it if you are of a mind.
The shop I tow for is the shop of choice for 3 major insurance companies, two dealerships and the largest vehicle rental company in the country.
We would be the shop to repair your Escape if it was in our part of the country.
Anything can be repaired if you throw enough money at it.
That is the deciding factor.
Will the insurance pay?
Insurance companies have a break point percentage on repair or total.
As for supplements the insurance will pay if they are necessary and the tear down will find out if the first estimate was off.
tomw makes a lot of good points in his post.
If it is repaired you may want to sell it if you are of a mind.
The shop I tow for is the shop of choice for 3 major insurance companies, two dealerships and the largest vehicle rental company in the country.
We would be the shop to repair your Escape if it was in our part of the country.
#7
10-07-2012, 10:33 AM
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#8
10-07-2012, 10:47 AM
If it does end up getting fixed, the shop it is at is certified by both my insurance company and the person that hit me. My dad knows the owner and his shop is a certified by Audi, BMW, MB, Porshe and volkswagen as well as Ford. When I was there, 90% of the cars being repaired were high dollar Germans. If he specializes in those euro cars, I think an escape should be a no brainer.
#9
10-07-2012, 02:19 PM
Quote:"If he specializes in those euro cars, I think an escape should be a no brainer."
Generally true. Owners of the higher dollar vehicles won't put up with flaws. Most times a shop that caters to them has one craftsman who has pride in his/her work, and won't let a bad job go out the door. If a plastic clip that holds the ambient temp sensor behind the grill has one mounting tab ripped, but the other is still solid, he'll replace it 'because' it was damaged. It would work, forever, with no problem, but it is not 'right'.
The good ones, in other words, replace stuff that most people wouldn't care about.
The BEST ones are those that work on very late model vehicles. The Mercedes that has 800 miles on the clock, and got rear-ended. The owner, a young lady who had worked and saved for years for her 1st car, disappointed at her 'baby' being damaged, should expect and get a vehicle returned that is just as good as what rolled off the dealer lot a few days earlier.
A good shop will replace that parts you don't see... a shoddy shop will leave the bent trunk floor, straightened, but if you look, you can see the wrinkled sheetmetal. The best will specify the particular brand/style of spray insulation & trunk 'splatter pattern' paint so they can match the factory perfectly. You will not be able to tell any work has been done by visual inspection, and if put on a rack or frame tool, will meet or beat factory specs. I've seen it done. I've seen a regular Porsche turned into the model with the wide fenders and it looked like factory, used factory parts, and satisfied the customer. It was expensive and took time. Dunno if the shop made any money on that deal. I've seen a Jeep Wrangler(? Really squarish late model) with the whole roof panel replaced, complete, and you couldn't tell it had been touched. Hailstorms are a boon to body shops, as are people who really do trim tree branches and expect somehow they'll fall somewhere else...
Can't say about the Escape in question. Gotta wait for the adjuster to do their thing.
tom
In those cases, it is almost at the will of the adjuster to determine if a vehicle is totaled, and sometime the supp's will take it over the limit when extra 'features' are found.
Generally true. Owners of the higher dollar vehicles won't put up with flaws. Most times a shop that caters to them has one craftsman who has pride in his/her work, and won't let a bad job go out the door. If a plastic clip that holds the ambient temp sensor behind the grill has one mounting tab ripped, but the other is still solid, he'll replace it 'because' it was damaged. It would work, forever, with no problem, but it is not 'right'.
The good ones, in other words, replace stuff that most people wouldn't care about.
The BEST ones are those that work on very late model vehicles. The Mercedes that has 800 miles on the clock, and got rear-ended. The owner, a young lady who had worked and saved for years for her 1st car, disappointed at her 'baby' being damaged, should expect and get a vehicle returned that is just as good as what rolled off the dealer lot a few days earlier.
A good shop will replace that parts you don't see... a shoddy shop will leave the bent trunk floor, straightened, but if you look, you can see the wrinkled sheetmetal. The best will specify the particular brand/style of spray insulation & trunk 'splatter pattern' paint so they can match the factory perfectly. You will not be able to tell any work has been done by visual inspection, and if put on a rack or frame tool, will meet or beat factory specs. I've seen it done. I've seen a regular Porsche turned into the model with the wide fenders and it looked like factory, used factory parts, and satisfied the customer. It was expensive and took time. Dunno if the shop made any money on that deal. I've seen a Jeep Wrangler(? Really squarish late model) with the whole roof panel replaced, complete, and you couldn't tell it had been touched. Hailstorms are a boon to body shops, as are people who really do trim tree branches and expect somehow they'll fall somewhere else...
Can't say about the Escape in question. Gotta wait for the adjuster to do their thing.
tom
In those cases, it is almost at the will of the adjuster to determine if a vehicle is totaled, and sometime the supp's will take it over the limit when extra 'features' are found.
#10
10-07-2012, 07:41 PM
I"ve had an earlier SHO with similar collision damage and you really are better off if the car is totaled. They will find endless other problems as the body shop disassembles the car, the repairs will take weeks and it is much easier to get a check from the insurer and go shopping. There are still some 2012s sitting on Ford lots with 0 miles on them and BIG discounts.
#11
10-07-2012, 07:47 PM
man, a unibody car/truck with that kind of damage is normally done for.
i've had 2 of my trucks totaled in the last 2 years due to a driver turning left infront of me with a green light. one time was a excursion the other a explorer. lucky your wife was not injured more then she was.
good luck, i'm interested in what the adjuster says.
i've had 2 of my trucks totaled in the last 2 years due to a driver turning left infront of me with a green light. one time was a excursion the other a explorer. lucky your wife was not injured more then she was.
good luck, i'm interested in what the adjuster says.
#12
10-07-2012, 08:40 PM
Fleet Mechanic
Glad your wife wasn't seriously hurt. That is the phone call noone ever wants to get.
#14
10-08-2012, 08:46 PM
I own a car that was wrecked and repaired (not perfectly) and it had a clear Carfax.
I know for a fact that our shop does not report to Carfax.
So I CAN STATE FOR A FACT that you are very wrong when you say that All accidents are reported to Carfax.
#15
10-08-2012, 09:16 PM
Fleet Mechanic
+1 Shorebird!
I've got $14,000 that says you are wrong. I bought a truck then found out 2 years later it was in a $14,000 wreck.
Carfax is mostly a joke if you want my honest opinion. I had a car that failed it's state inspection and that's all it says on carfax. Too bad they don't tell the prospective buyer it failed because the tint was too dark.
I've got $14,000 that says you are wrong. I bought a truck then found out 2 years later it was in a $14,000 wreck.
Carfax is mostly a joke if you want my honest opinion. I had a car that failed it's state inspection and that's all it says on carfax. Too bad they don't tell the prospective buyer it failed because the tint was too dark.