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  #1  
Old 05-10-2012, 03:14 PM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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Question 86' Ranger cutting out!!! Fuel ?

I have a 1986 Ford ranger / 4 Cyl. / 2.3 / EFI / Manual 5-Speed // Original owner

Hello~

Last night I was driving down the street minding my own bizness, when suddenly, my truck conked out. I pulled over, restarted, and had to keep revving the engine to make it back home. Finally made it home, kept the engine running on its own, then after about a minute or two, it conked out again.

My neighbor and I thought this could be somewhat of a fuel related problem.

The last time this happen, is when I steam cleaned my engine and maybe got something wet in a fusible link. This took about two months to get running again, normally, so I figured I must have gotten something wet, and needed to dry out.

Then this '*******’ and 'cutting out' happen again a few months later. This time I removed my Intake control module (I believe this was in my air filter compartment, cleaned all the carbon deposits off, I also replaced my fuel relay switch, located on pass. fender wall....just because some wires were corroded (attached to passenger side wall)

Someone mentioned either of these culprits.....
MAP SENSOR ($38.00)
EGR VALVE, ($80.00) or
EGR VACUUM SOLENOID ($60.00)

I bought the MAP sensor got it home, then realized it was very difficult for me to get to it to replace it, and by this time, the truck started running ok again.

This process of elimination is going to break me, not knowing what this particular problem might be, so, if anyone out there is going through similar issues, please tell me what was your problem was or might be, so I don't end up replacing needless parts, I can not afford. First thing was to replace the relay switch again, but not sure that's the problem. I hope it's not the fuel pump. Maybe it's the injectors.

I don't use a cheap, no-name gas. When all these problems arose last time, I was using ARCO REGULAR, then after switching to 76 REG. gas, the problems subsided. I have been told that 4 bangers do not need all that premium gas, and to ONLY use regular.

I think I replaced the inline fuel pump once before, sorry, can't remember.

Thank you! Have a nice day!
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:25 PM
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Phinxter Phinxter is offline
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i think I would start by checking fuel pressure
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:29 AM
tomw tomw is offline
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A failed MAP sensor will cause the idle to be poor, and the fuel mix to wander without reason. At idle it will run fine for a second, and then stumble and jerk, and then run fine once again.
EGR would likely cause stumbling and 'trailer hitching' while traveling down the road, as would failing plug wires, or very poor idle. You can test for EGR function by moving the EGR valve by hand at idle. Push on the diaphragm from the valve side, or apply vacuum and watch the idle go bad. Release, and it should smooth out. Disconnect and plug the vacuum line to road test, but don't leave it that way or you'll get pinging.
Water in the fuel would cause misses and stumbling going down the road to where you would think the engine had lost its spark. Run fine, then seeming dead miss and no response to throttle input for a few seconds as it tries to run on water. It would be most noticeable after heavy braking, going around a sharp curve or going up/down a hill where the water would move out of the lowest spot in the fuel tank, and get ingested by the fuel pump.
A failing main relay would disable the computer, and interrupt the fuel injector operation.
If it runs well, no miss, full power, smooth acceleration and idle, and then goes nuts, chugs, misses, and falls on its face, I'd suspect fuel contamination. Some urge the use of Seafoam to absorb water in the fuel tank, and that is one solution. I've done it once with some success, but am getting the problem back.
When you accelerate, and go to shift gears, taking your foot off the gas pedal, the engine will drop rpm's significantly, making smooth shifting difficult IF the engine is having fuel problems. At least that is what I think I am having. It is as if the engine does not want to run like it used to, and jerkiness is its new mode of operation. I am going to inspect the fuel filler hose for damage, as I might be getting rain water into the tank.
tom
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:27 PM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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May 25, 2012
Hello my friends once again...here we are.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I am listening very attentively, I do appreciate the help. I thought by using the Union 76 regular gas, that would be better than me using the ARCO a few years ago, so I have no idea why water would be in my tank. Is it possible to clean the EGR valve instead of replacing it?

After my last post, and everything seemed to clear up again, it was running fine, then it pooped out again, so I bought a fuel filter for the in-line, on the rail. I did a google search, and found that my ’86 ranger 2.3 EFI, 240 cid, 5-speed, 4 cylinder, had two fuel filters, but actually the two filters were for the 2.3 diesel, not gas….at least autozones’ product search only showed one for the gas. I’ll start there.

Autozone told me sometimes the EGR valve gets stuck, and I should remove it, clean it with carb cleaner, then spray it with WD-40. The plunger or whatever gets stuck. Another poster here or another ford forum told me you can’t clean it, this part always has to be replaced with new. Is this true?

In the Chilton RANGER and BRONCO II ‘83-‘88 repair manual, it talks about purging and priming the filter after installing.

So to install~
(1) Disconnect the fuel pump relay switch I have about three different generic switches over the passengers side, under the plastic shield (near the air bypass valve) they are about 1-1/2” x 2” each. Got to find out which one.
(2) Start engine until it dies.
(3) Remove gas cap to de-pressurize gas tank. Put it back on.
(4) On the rail near the filter, there should be a pressure relief stem. Expel any pressure.
(5) Drain or siphon any remaining gas into a receptacle.
(6) Replace filter using some weird looking tool that I was told I needed.
Do I need to purge or prime the line by loosening the air vent on the conditioner housing until gas flows freely without any air bubbles?

About how much fuel will I anticipate in the line, after I disconnect? On the filter, it sezs to have a

Confusion:
1-I was also told to disconnect the NEG. Battery?
2-Also…Do I really need to disconnect the fuel relay switch, if I release pressure using that valve near the filter? I’ll have to find the right switch first.
3- prime and purge the line? Thank you!
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:45 AM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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UPDATE…FILM AT ELEVEN!!

Well, I drove down today to get the mail, and it seemed to run again. Very temperamental. So, not too sure what to do, if I have limited funds. If I had the $$$, Maybe consider replacing both fuel filters, one corroded relay switch, EGR Valve, and hope one of those were the culprit. I think in all these years, I’ve only replaced the smaller FF616 filter about 12 years ago.

OK, since I do not have a jack or hydraulic lift, it appears I can not get under my rail to R/R the Autozone’s FF679-G800 Filter, and the handy-dandy Fuel line disconnect tool. I found another empty filter box which I think was the filter I once replaced back in 2001, which cleared up that problem. Autozone’s FF616DL, or #FF616. I think this was also located in front of, or behind the bigger fuel filter on the rail.

In looking at my relay switches over on the passenger side, by the intake control valve, I see three.
One must be the ECC relay for the computer,
The other is the Fuel Pump relay switch.
I also see another similar type switch but does not have anything plugged in, that may have been my blower fan power switch, but that box caught fire many years ago, so I just taped over it with electrical tape. C’mon guys, we are talking about a 1986 Ranger, not a new spring chicken, so things will seem ancient. One of those relays are corroded...BIG TIME. It comes off the harness cluster, and I guess I can use any universal switch as long as they have four inside flat contacts…three facing one way, and the other facing against these. I think they are called a multi-function switch, but I need the bottom side connected to the harness, not the top side that plugs into it. I took a few pics and will try to post shortly. Thank you!

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

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  #6  
Old 05-26-2012, 07:51 AM
tomw tomw is offline
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Labeling pictures:
_876 = EGR valve position sensor
_877 = Fuel pressure regulator
_87 = mis labeled
_878 = two connectors - dirty with dielectric grease
_879 = three connectors normally under plastic cover passenger side

Most fuel pump relays are little cubes that plug into the connectors of the type you display. I thought the fuel pump relay was behind the kick panel on the passenger side, atop the computer. I think some of the connectors are un-used from the factory.
To test the EGR function, use a probe to come at the valve from the 'back' side. I think there are several places you can manually operate the valve with a popsicle stick or something similar while the engine is idling. If the idle gets rough, or the engine dies, when you move the diaphragm towards the position sensor, your EGR valve itself is working, and if it clears up when you release the diaphragm, it can move closed on its own. You can also use a golf tee to plug the vacuum line to the position sensor, take a drive, and see if the engine runs better. If so, the EGR may be being applied when it isn't desired. Over on the passenger side, under the plastic cover, you may find two electrically operated vacuum valves. The apply the vacuum, and hold it when desired, to get a particular flow of gas. They, or one of them, is called the 'dithering valve', FWIW.
I cannot tell you a blamed thing about the filter as I have never replaced mine, and cannot find it. I think there are two, but my truck is an 85 with EFI, and the auto parts places have tried to sell me something that does not fit anywhere when I've looked.
Get a fuel pressure gauge with a 'pressure release tube' on the side of the valve. Attach it to the schrader valve, turn the key to ON, and check static pressure. Get a suitable container, and with the key again ON, depress the release valve while catching the fuel in the container. You should run it for 10 seconds, and measure the amount of fuel delivered. If it is a cup or so, you should have enough fuel to run the engine full throttle. Do the math, and figure at even 20 mpg, you'd have 20 minutes to flow a gallon of gas going 60 mph... you'd have GALLONS in that time at 10 seconds per 1/2 cup... or similar. Should give you an idea of the flows involved.
Have you checked your plug wires? Run the engine COLD in the DARK with the hood open. If you see a 'light show', you need wires. Mine would cause bucking and 'trailer hitching' while going down the road at medium speed, say 45 mph, and then work fine. They were a light show, in the AM when things were cold and possibly damp. New wires, no bucking...
tom
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:22 AM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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Thanks for the breakdown and all your information Tom! All plug wires and the coil wire seem to look OK. That plastic box thingie on passengers side kick wall I believed to be not a relay, but something else having to do with the fuel..maybe an enertia shut-off switch. I was told to "bang" on it when fuel problems arise, because some times it gets stuck. I also saw that the larger fuel filter should last with the life of the truck, but the smaller FF should be replaced every 10,000 miles. (# FF616 autozone) AGAIN, ALL LOCAL AUTO PARTS STORES TELL ME THERE IS TWO DIFFERENT FILTERS FOR THAT YEAR,BUT ONE WILL FIT MY TRUCK, THE OTHER IS FOR A DIESEL 2.3. WHY I HAVE THE # FF616 autozone EMPTY FF CARTON IS BEYOND ME, if it's for a Diesel.

Mr.Tom, Do you think it wise to replace the parts listed on the photos, or would it be a wild goose chase,meaning I could do all that,then the problem might arise again. it's so very hard to pin point these issues, and a diagnostic may not yield any significant results, unless it's an electrical problem, I would think. Thanks again and have a great weekend! Feel free to throw anything else in way of suggestions to me. :-)
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:48 PM
tomw tomw is offline
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The kick panel is to the right side of the passenger footwell. The switch mounted above or near the top edge of the carpet or floormat is the 'rollover switch' that disabled the electricity flow to the fuel pump by dislodging a steel ball from a 'basket' when inverted or jostled severely. It has a reset button on the top to re-seat the ball bearing.
If you remove a few screws, the panel to the right side will reveal your computer, with a relay on the top that is the fuel pump relay .... I think.
Don't replace the parts, you can clean the connectors and put new di-electric grease on the terminals to prevent corrosion. The EGR sensor can be removed and inspected, but why? You would get a code if it didn't work.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:56 PM
87 XLT 87 XLT is offline
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The last time i pulled the codes on my 87 Ranger was when the cruise control died. Hooked up the scanner & in a couple of minutes it flashed a code 29 "vehicle speed sensor voltage is too low." Replaced the sensor & problem solved.

The time before that when the truck was pinging & stalling at low RPM's I pulled the codes again and got a code 53 "throttle position signal voltage is too high" Replaced TPS & that problem was solved.

Time before that when the truck was backfiring something awfull I got a bunch of ignition related codes. Replaced the ignition module & that problem was solved.

YOur 86 & my 87 are not equipped with a check engine light, so the only way to know if there are any stored trouble codes is to spend a couple minutes with a scanner and check.

With your symptoms a code 22
"MAP sensor signal voltage out of specification
would be handy













Or how about a code 33 EGR valve not fully closed.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:11 PM
87 XLT 87 XLT is offline
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With my Actron scanner i need to count the flashes to get the codes. With an Equus 3145 the scanner displays the codes. About 25 bucks at amazon.com or you might find it at an auto parts store.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:37 PM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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87 XLT....So I think what you are saying is to go get a scanner, or get a diagnostic. I'm no mechanic, but do you plug the scanner into the check port over on the passengers side, way up near the corner? A tube looking thing with a cap?
Sounds easy enough, so basically it will show codes for all sensors and valves, how about fuel relays, or ECC relays?

For the fuel pressure regulator, I would need a pressure gauge for that...right?

What I did today was....searched for a fuel pump relay switch...female, (5-slots, but four tabs coming into with the male tabs) with about 7" of wire, I could splice into the harness gang wires, original Ford part is dark brown, with solid RED, YELLOW, BROWN, and A RED with a GREEN STRIPE. As My photo shows, it's pretty crusty. The other switch I already replaced last year might have been the ECC relay switch, but all new wire colors, so may be different than the original Ford relay.

Does anyone know exactly where my SCHRADER VALVE is located on this truck? I may need to DE-pressureize. Chilton's was no help and Youtube was no help, and some say it's on the Rail next to the in-line fuel filter...can't see it. Then others tell me it's in the upper right hand corner of engine compartment, nope. Then they tell me to look near the throttle body. Sorry, I guess I would need a nice person to actually take the time to take a picture of it and show me where it is.

I also removed the vacuum hose on top of the fuel pressure regulator, and did not see any gas, smelled a little, but no visible gas.

Started engine, removed the same vacuum hose from the vacuum tree and idle increased.

Shut engine off, I removed the 3 screws on sensor from the EGR valve and the plunger moved freely, did not look like it could get stuck, gasket seems OK, maybe a little loose from wear, but snug enough.

Does anyone know if these two switches, the ECC and Fuel Pump relays are basically the same thing and called Multi-function relays?

They seem to have the same configuration with the four metal prongs, going the same direction, the four wires. Could this corroded fuel relay cause the fuel to die off when innocently driving down the road? I know, it could be anything. THX
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:38 PM
87 XLT 87 XLT is offline
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The scanner plugs into the connector at this link Super High Output Should be hanging from the end of it's wires + a single wire connector near the heater blower motor.

I wouold'nt mess with anything else until i pulled the codes.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:14 PM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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I ordered a pig tail female connector for the fuel pump (the corroded looking switch pictured above) this original 4 wire pig tail comes off the wire harness along with the (1) Blower fan switch, and...Correct me if I'm wrong.... (2) The EEC, or ECC relay switch (which I think is different than the EEC-IV TGI, which I think is located directly under the distributor cap and controls idle????) What is that other relay with the fuel pump relay switch called? I thought it was ECC computer relay. I hope by replacing this switch, it may help, since these four wires are related to~
1) YELLOW-Ignition fused power/fuel pump fuse
2) BROWN- Fuel pump outlet
3) RED-Power from ECC Power relay, and
4) TAN, Red, or yellow w/stripe-Fuel pump relay control. We'll see.



NEXT DAY -
OK. I thought I was already to GO! I bought a fuel replay female 4-wire pig tail (or maybe it’s just a electrical connector from Pep Boys # PT5685) Looking at this NEW box relay with the lock tabs on the bottom, The NEW wire configuration has this-
On the right side, there are three wires coming down,

Top right - solid BROWN,
Middle Bottom -solid Red.
Bottom – bigger orange with Stripe green

Left bottom - One YELLOW
____________________________________
The OLD wire configuration has this-
Top right - solid Black
Middle - Fat Red with Green Stripe
Bottom - solid Red.

Left bottom - One YELLOW

Question? Do I match old wire locations with new wire locations, switch to switch, or do I match the fatter, bigger striped wire with the same, even though they are not in the same location on the switch? Maybe this part is NOT what I need, I don't really know which relay is what. ECC, EEC, or Fuel Relay on Passenger's side fender well. Ford does not stock these and if so, would cost an arm and a leg. Just trying to match my old switch configuration with a new box. Thx.

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Old 05-28-2012, 05:31 AM
tomw tomw is offline
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If you do not match or connect the wires based on position, when you plug the relay into the connector on the new pigtail, it will not be connected to the correct wire. The spades from the relay are positioned such that it is impossible to insert them into the connector in the wrong position. For a reason.
Looking at the last picture in your series, the one connector with a relay or something plugged in has had ALL the wires cut & spliced and wrapped in electricians tape. If those connections are not soldered, they might be the cause of your problem. Another wire near there looks as if it has been connected using a crimp style butt connector. Is that connection good also? I'd be checking all these 'repairs' before replacing stuff. The 'corrosion' you mention does not look to me as if it would prevent anything from working.
IOW you are making a repair that is not needed, IMO.
tom
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:03 PM
bozo4ford bozo4ford is offline
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Electrical switch match up

TommyTom,
Quote:
If you do not match or connect the wires based on position, when you plug the relay into the connector on the new pigtail, it will not be connected to the correct wire.
A Happy Happy to you!
Ok,, that crimped single wire was already from another connection, nothing to do with my 4 wire relay I’m replacing. The latest photo, bottom pic is a brand new electrical connector, Pep Boys - BWD # PT5685 (V08190)
It does plug into the old top relay, but it's the location of the wires from the old pigtail coming off the harness and into the new relay pig tail that has me confused.

My neighbor (who is NOT a mechanic) told me that he would replace all the wires exactly from the old to new, no matter if the FATTER, LARGER STRIPED wire is in a completely different spade hookup location.
I would think the fatter wire connected to a smaller wire on the new relay might cause it to overheat, since the striped fat wire I believe is for the FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL, as noted above post in the color explanations. I'm no mechanic, nor an electrician, and this should be easy, except for the fact a few auto parts stores don't have these answers I'm looking for...OR they sold me a completely wrong relay to match FORDS relay configuration.

I'm replacing the bottom pig tail, but that top relay switch with FORD'S NUMBERS are # E93B 2C013. This is only the top box that actually plugs into ….THE PIG TAIL SWITCH I DO NEED.

I did a Google, and put those numbers in, and found many with -AA, -BB at the very end. Is there a Ford cross reference website to after market electrical connectors?

I would LOVE to simply connect those existing pig tail harness wires to the NEW switch, EXACTLY in the order they come off of, but still, the fact that the bigger striped wire is in a different location worries me. I would think there is a reason why there is one big fat striped wire, and it should be connected to the 'other' big fat striped wire, regardless if it's in the middle or bottom of the switch. I will re-solder all the connections that the electrical tape is on, but first, I'd like to hook up the new switch in the correct manner, IF it's the right one.

This NEW switch was special ordered and bought at Pep Boys and its part number is BWD # PT5685 (V08190) THX
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:03 PM
 
 
 
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