"The secret life of lug nuts" seems to include some mystery & disagreement on best way to tighten lug nuts to recommended torque.

Readers might benefit by reading some information from Google search:

use impact wrench to tighten lug nuts - Google Search

Many hits suggest impact wrench should only be used to remove lug nuts.

Many hits suggest using impact wrench to tighten lug nuts risks overtightening them.

Many hits suggest the best way to achieve accurate & uniform torque when tightening lug nuts is to use torque wrench.

 

While not a factory trained FORD mechanic, I am a factory trained mechanic (motorcycles) and some of the bikes I have been trained on do have lug nuts.

I blast 'em off with the impact gun. When reinstalling, I LIGHTLY anti-seize 'em, start them by hand, run them in with the gun till it just hits the FIRST time for no other reason but to save time, and finish with a torque wrench. Anything else risks a wheel coming off, my job, and someone's life.

Believe me, it's not a debatable subject. It has to happen that way, every time. And yes, I take my job seriously.

 

I think your system is best... but still there is the issue of what torque value you use IF you have coated... even lightly... the threads with anti-seize.

Any lubricant will make the torquing process occur with less force than dry threads. Using a value around 20% less than that stated for a dry torque would seem appropriate, say many web sites.

I have personally ripped other bolts apart using anti-seize before I found out why this was happening. Using the -20% value seems to have solved that issue.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

Well if you don't care about FORD's recommendations not to use any oil or grease on lugs, perhaps you'd be interested to know what Permatex says?

Permatex recommends not to use "any anti-seize" on anybody's lug nuts. Hoping to "make removal way easier" may present more of a risk than potential benefit.

http://www.permatex.com/Resource_auto_faq.htm

"Does Permatex suggest applying anti-seize to lubricate lug nuts when installing or tightening the nuts?

Permatex does not recommend the use of any anti-seize product on wheel studs. Although anti-size has been used for years by many people on this application, there is the potential for over torquing and therefore higher clamp loads and potentially dangerous bolt stretch. Because of the lubricity of anti-seize, there is a tendency to over tighten because of the ease with which the nut will bear down on the lug. For this reason, even if you try to torque the nuts to factory specs, the clamp load may become too high depending on the type of bolt, size and manufacturer."

IMHO when both FORD & Permatex recommend against it, there is reason you should not use it.

 

While I am completely aware of the mfg's recommendation not to use anti-seize, I've had more issues with galling and corrosion on the bikes than I have lugs coming loose. When I apply anti-seize, it's kinda hard to tell that there's any there. I have seen lugs come in positively dripping with the stuff, and in that case, I can see it affecting the torque. I'm thinking that by the time the amount I use gets spread all over the lug, it's more corrosion protectant than anything else. I also reduce the torque by 10%. There's a cool little chart in a book I keep in the box, Pocket Pal or something like that.

On my truck, I was just too damn lazy to go get the jar the last time I had the wheels off, so they went on dry. Guess that's not such a bad thing.

 

Ya know Motomedic your thoughts on this very echo my own. Yeah we could all cite every known factory or other manual about any one thing but those of us who actually turn wrenches or service our own vehicles can use our practical experience to determine what's best for us. I've seen first hand the effects of damaged studs/lugs but can't recall hearing of any mishaps relating to loose lugs due minor lubrication and I've been driving since the 60s!

A light application of any rust/inhibiting compound can NOT bee seen as a bad thing if the ultimate result is lugs and studs remaining in good condition. From the smallest of vehicles with 12" 4 lug wheels up to 18 wheelers I see qualified, hands-on working mechanics dabbing a bit of something on studs before replacing lug nuts. If this were such a huge danger then we'd see the results laying along side our highways daily. I can see it now----hundreds of tire wheels laying beside the roadway with greasy studs!

I think I'll always defer to someone doing a job rather than cited "facts" that don't seem to be common and defacto accepted practices out in the real world!

In fact I'm gonna go lube up my studs right now with a gob of anti-seize on each lug---we'll see what effect it has!

 

Sorry, but I can't speak about The secret life of lug nuts "on the bikes".

You think "it's more corrosion protectant than anything else" & scooterspal hopes "It should make removal way easier." but I'm more interested in assuring lugs are as tight, strong & secure as designed.

There's probably less difference in friction between "positively dripping with the stuff" & "it's kinda hard to tell that there's any there" than you imagine. If you "can see (the amount of anti-seize applied) affecting the torque" - what possible good is your "cool little chart"? Anti-seize works as a lubricant, a barrier between surface to surface friction, on the molecular level, at the thread contact.

Instead of trying to beat a dead horse, rejecting widely published FORD & Permatex recommendations, perhaps discussion should focus on the desirability of making lug "removal way easier" & how serious a problem lug corrosion actually is? The only time I want "removal way easier" is w/mindlessly overtightened, impact wrench abused lugs. Corrosion was never an issue all the years I lived in the Rust Belt & is a nonissue here.

For me, if the experts making/selling Permatex officially advise against using anti-seize on lugs & FORD officially advises 'Never use oil or grease on lugs' I think I'll defer to them.

Think about it. Permatex sells anti-seize, BUT says don't use it on lugs. Some may want to dismiss Permatex website as "cited "facts" that don't seem to be common" but that only questions if manufacturer's recommendations on the WWW are "common"? Presumption is that Permatex consistantly/officially/publically advises against using anti-seize on lugs.

Maybe this isn't always true? Maybe others recommend just the opposite? Debate would benefit if dissenters could post links to any common official cites that refute the FORD & Permatex recommendations.

FORD & Permatex both cite a common problem of oil, grease, or anti-seize on lugs being linked to overtigthening. Common results of overtightening lugs include difficult removal, deformed lug nuts, damaged wheels, warped brake rotors, galled lug threads, seized lug nuts, broken, stretched & weakened studs. These issues are still common where torque specs are habitually scoffed at, impact wrenches are used for final lug tightening & lubricants are used, even thou both manufacturers warn against using them. Some claim lube can throw lug torque off 50%! Impact wrenches can exceed recommended torque in a split second & if they have any guts, may double FORD spec a second later.

You & Motomedic are left speculating about "hundreds of tire wheels laying beside the roadway with greasy studs" & "Anything else risks a wheel coming off, my job, and someone's life".

 

i've only had problems with lug corrosion on my van, which sat in some guys's back yard for 3 years before i bought it. each nut took over a minute to remove with my IR 231c impact wrench because the corrosion caused excessive friction the entire length of the stud.
that said, i've never had a problem with corrosion on vehicles that remain in use.

 

Conical lug nuts are best, the problem with most is the stud either rusts or gets dirt in the threads making it difficult to back the nut through it all, my E-350 has long studs, takes forever to back them off, and the shops put them on with the impact wrench set on max, I love having to use a 4' cheater pipe to break them loose!

 

Previous to my current '99 E350 short box I had a '92 E250 EXT. The van had American Racing 8 lug wheels on i with the correct lugs for the wheels. TWICE the left rear wheel came off at highway speeds. Once with my wife towing a boat trailor, once with my 17yo niece at the helm. Neither incident resulted (amazingly) in an accident. Both times the van had been to the tire shop days before. They accepted full responsibility and repaired the vehicle. I had previous to the 2nd incident started torquing the wheels at the shop before leaving to check, and the shop had started doing the same thing. Yet the second incident still happened.

Long story short. Trust nobody. My '06 GTO gets jacked up in the driveway, wheels pulled of by me, delivered (with tires) to the tire shop, and then reinstalled by me, using a 3 step torquing process. I spray a little WD-40 on the studs and in the nuts, mostly to clean out grit. Why so ****? Fast Car, nuff said.

Van gets torqued by me in the parking lot after any tire related service.

 

From a FORD Service Manual, Wheel Torque Specifications, E-250, E-350, F-250, F-350, 8 lug wheel, 9/16-18 clean dry threads, is 140 Lb-Ft.

The cheapest $29 plastic 1/2" impact wrench from HF claims to be capable of 230 Lb-Ft "set on max".

1/2" Compact Air Impact Wrench

Their $89 impact wrench claims 700 Lb-Ft "set on max".

Against FORD/Permatex advice, glaze those studs w/high tech slippery goo. Then try to imagine how easy it is for a kid, who hates working for peanuts as a tire jock, to overtighten lugs w/cheap impact wrench from China.

 

I never have applied any form of lubricant to lug nuts, mostly because I was afraid of issues. While I believe that many may not have any issues I'm convinced I'm safer using a simple torque wrench rather than playing guessing games with proper torque. I remember in a thread in the SD forum a couple of years ago a mechanical engineer described how he replaces the studs and lugs on anything he buys used out of fear that they've been overtightened.

Any shop worth anything should have some of these on hand for tightening lugs with impact guns:



They're kinda pricey, around $100 for a set, but if you're removing and installing wheels frequently it'd be worth the investment!

 

I'm definitely not the final word on the subject that's for sure. I'm just a guy who's had a wrench in his hand for 30-odd years now.....

 

Puzzled? "TWICE the left rear wheel came off" & "They...repaired the vehicle" & BUT "Neither incident resulted in an accident"?

Don't you mean? TWICE you suffered the same extremely dangerous "accident" but (amazingly) neither incident resulted in bodily injury?

The "wheel came off" could it have been the result of anything other than; mechanical failure, "an accident" or intentional action?

Won a claim against NYS for 2 tires & alloy wheels b/c of a Road Bed Collision. Hit pothole on Thruway in miserable March conditions, several cars were broken/abandoned on road side. Was able to limp home w/damaged tires & bent rims, but lugs were OK.

 

I think the difference is how careful you are with it and how badly it can be screwed up if someone doesn't know what they're doing. I'm sure there are tolerances to any engineered part, especially ones as crucial as lug nuts. But if, say, Permatex were to recommend using a small amount of antisieze on lug nuts and some clown soaked his lugs in the stuff they could be liable in the event of an accident.