Issue putting ZF S5-42 onto a 302 in a F-150
#16
11-24-2011, 09:29 AM
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Okay just some quick experience reporting (not guessing):
I put a 1994 ZF from a 5.8 1994 into a 1986 F250 5.0 that had a 4 peed NP435. We ran into the exact problem you are describing. The problem was that the earlier clutch pedal did not have enough travel and Ford fixed this issue by taking about 2" out of the back of the clutch pedal so it travels further towards the firewall and trherfore goes enough hydraulic flow to the slave cylinder. SB Zf's only used outside slaves while the BB's and Diesels use internal slaves. That is;t the issue. The problem is not enough hydraulic fluid getting to the salve from the master cylinder for whatever reason., The easiest way out of the problem is to put a longer travel rod from your clutch pedal to your master cylinder. Viola, problem solved. worked with us and it will work with you. I assume you did change out the master cylinder so you have the correct application for the ZF?
I put a 1994 ZF from a 5.8 1994 into a 1986 F250 5.0 that had a 4 peed NP435. We ran into the exact problem you are describing. The problem was that the earlier clutch pedal did not have enough travel and Ford fixed this issue by taking about 2" out of the back of the clutch pedal so it travels further towards the firewall and trherfore goes enough hydraulic flow to the slave cylinder. SB Zf's only used outside slaves while the BB's and Diesels use internal slaves. That is;t the issue. The problem is not enough hydraulic fluid getting to the salve from the master cylinder for whatever reason., The easiest way out of the problem is to put a longer travel rod from your clutch pedal to your master cylinder. Viola, problem solved. worked with us and it will work with you. I assume you did change out the master cylinder so you have the correct application for the ZF?
The master cylinder was replaced a few months back (because it broke), but it was for the M5OD tranny. The ZF tranny is from an 1989 F-250... the mech said that an '89 F-250 master cylinder for a ZF wouldn't fit because of firewall fitment issues on the F-150.
Which master cylinder would I need for this ZF?
Where would I find a longer travel rod if that's needed? Might you know the part number? and thank you very much!
#17
11-24-2011, 09:35 AM
I know that there are 2 different part numbers for the zf and Mazda master cylinders (don't know the difference) get the one for the ZF. 2 any machine shop can lengthen your travel rod...just remove it and bring it to them...lenthen it by the pedal side so it won't interfere with the cylinder sleeve travel.
#18
11-29-2011, 05:28 AM
Lead Driver
The master cylinder is the same regardless of transmission. I just looked up a 95 F150 and a 95 F350 and it is the same part number. The slave cylinders are also the same part number. The pedal box and clutch travel is the same between the two 5-speed transmissions too. I'm using the original master cylinder on my 87 that was setup with a 4-speed and an external slave with the internal slave on the ZF that's now in my truck, and the clutch works normally.
I think lisagoud did bring up a good point about checking the clutch travel. Make sure when the clutch is released that the pedal returns all the way to the upper stop. If it doesn't, you're not getting the full release stroke. You can fix this by removing and installing a new clutch shaft lever - the lever arm that connects the clutch shaft to the clutch master cylinder pushrod. The cross shaft has splines that cut into the lever arm, so replacement is the only way to realign the lever arm. I got the part from Ford for about $20, but that has been several years ago (maybe 2000 or 2001).
I changed that lever arm on my truck soon after I bought it because I was having trouble getting from neutral into gear with the truck running and downshifts were difficult (this was with the original 4-speed). The clutch pedal sat maybe 1/2" to 1" from the upper stop in the fully engaged position.
I think the problem is a larger scale than the .050" cut from the flywheel. There is a lot of forgiveness in the slave cylinder - it is able to adjust from a new clutch thickness to a worn clutch thickness without having to shim anything. Has the mechanic measured the distance the slave cylinder moves when the clutch pedal is pressed?
I think lisagoud did bring up a good point about checking the clutch travel. Make sure when the clutch is released that the pedal returns all the way to the upper stop. If it doesn't, you're not getting the full release stroke. You can fix this by removing and installing a new clutch shaft lever - the lever arm that connects the clutch shaft to the clutch master cylinder pushrod. The cross shaft has splines that cut into the lever arm, so replacement is the only way to realign the lever arm. I got the part from Ford for about $20, but that has been several years ago (maybe 2000 or 2001).
I changed that lever arm on my truck soon after I bought it because I was having trouble getting from neutral into gear with the truck running and downshifts were difficult (this was with the original 4-speed). The clutch pedal sat maybe 1/2" to 1" from the upper stop in the fully engaged position.
I think the problem is a larger scale than the .050" cut from the flywheel. There is a lot of forgiveness in the slave cylinder - it is able to adjust from a new clutch thickness to a worn clutch thickness without having to shim anything. Has the mechanic measured the distance the slave cylinder moves when the clutch pedal is pressed?
#19
11-29-2011, 07:57 AM
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The master cylinder is the same regardless of transmission. I just looked up a 95 F150 and a 95 F350 and it is the same part number. The slave cylinders are also the same part number. The pedal box and clutch travel is the same between the two 5-speed transmissions too. I'm using the original master cylinder on my 87 that was setup with a 4-speed and an external slave with the internal slave on the ZF that's now in my truck, and the clutch works normally.
I think lisagoud did bring up a good point about checking the clutch travel. Make sure when the clutch is released that the pedal returns all the way to the upper stop. If it doesn't, you're not getting the full release stroke. You can fix this by removing and installing a new clutch shaft lever - the lever arm that connects the clutch shaft to the clutch master cylinder pushrod. The cross shaft has splines that cut into the lever arm, so replacement is the only way to realign the lever arm. I got the part from Ford for about $20, but that has been several years ago (maybe 2000 or 2001).
I changed that lever arm on my truck soon after I bought it because I was having trouble getting from neutral into gear with the truck running and downshifts were difficult (this was with the original 4-speed). The clutch pedal sat maybe 1/2" to 1" from the upper stop in the fully engaged position.
I think the problem is a larger scale than the .050" cut from the flywheel. There is a lot of forgiveness in the slave cylinder - it is able to adjust from a new clutch thickness to a worn clutch thickness without having to shim anything. Has the mechanic measured the distance the slave cylinder moves when the clutch pedal is pressed?
I think lisagoud did bring up a good point about checking the clutch travel. Make sure when the clutch is released that the pedal returns all the way to the upper stop. If it doesn't, you're not getting the full release stroke. You can fix this by removing and installing a new clutch shaft lever - the lever arm that connects the clutch shaft to the clutch master cylinder pushrod. The cross shaft has splines that cut into the lever arm, so replacement is the only way to realign the lever arm. I got the part from Ford for about $20, but that has been several years ago (maybe 2000 or 2001).
I changed that lever arm on my truck soon after I bought it because I was having trouble getting from neutral into gear with the truck running and downshifts were difficult (this was with the original 4-speed). The clutch pedal sat maybe 1/2" to 1" from the upper stop in the fully engaged position.
I think the problem is a larger scale than the .050" cut from the flywheel. There is a lot of forgiveness in the slave cylinder - it is able to adjust from a new clutch thickness to a worn clutch thickness without having to shim anything. Has the mechanic measured the distance the slave cylinder moves when the clutch pedal is pressed?
#20
12-05-2011, 11:25 AM
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So I got the truck back on Sat.; the mech also tried swapping the old, cut flywheel out for a new one. We're not 100% sure that was the only thing, but this time it went together correctly and works perfectly.
I drove her on Sat., hauling loads for a friend, worked perfectly!
So in the end, nearly all parts were replaced with new, the ZF shifts very well, with a more loud click sound as I shift, but I like that, sounds more heavy duty.
Thanks to all for the advice/help, this should've been easier, but I'm glad it's done.
I drove her on Sat., hauling loads for a friend, worked perfectly!
So in the end, nearly all parts were replaced with new, the ZF shifts very well, with a more loud click sound as I shift, but I like that, sounds more heavy duty.
Thanks to all for the advice/help, this should've been easier, but I'm glad it's done.
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