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1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Bumpsides Ford Truck

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  #31  
Old 10-23-2011, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamwilliam View Post
I would think that if Dennis obtained all the molds, etc. from Ford, I would think that he and others working there know a great deal about what came on these trucks originally.
Lotsa luck, because you are unaware that...
Dennis did not obtain any molds (tooling) from Ford (FoMoCo), you wanna know why? Because Ford never owned the tooling, the outside suppliers did.

What y'all don't seem to understand is...that 90% of the parts on FoMoCo vehicles then and now...are not made by FoMoCo. This applies to GM & ChryCo as well, once to AMC, Studebaker, Packard, ad nauseum.

FoMoCo designs the parts, then lets out contracts that the outside suppliers bid on. Whoever wins the contract, makes the tooling to make the parts, so who does it belong to? The outside suppliers.

Dennis claims he has access to original 'Ford' tooling, doesn't say he received or owns it.

And, if y'all could see the monumental size of some of this tooling, you would know that it would take a crane, a semi tractor/flatbed trailer to move it.

At the 2010 F100 Western Nationals Truck Show, I spoke with Pat Ford, Dennis' rep at shows/swap meets. I asked him where Dennis' parts are made: Excepting weatherstrips, China was the answer.

Have you ever been to Dennis' location in Concord NC? I have, there's not enough space there to make much of anything.

So, anyone that believes the malarky about parts made from original tooling, needs to take a course in Reality 101.

Think about it. The parts are made in China, the tooling is owned by suppliers in the US, Canada and Mexico. How much of this tooling has been transported to China?

None.

The cost of materials and labor in the US is HUGE, then there's the EPA, NHTSA, DOT and the UAW that Dennis and all the other repro parts suppliers would have to deal with.

In China, the material costs are peanuts compared to what they cost in the US. The average worker makes about FIFTY CENTS a DAY.

There's no gov't agency or red tape one has to deal with, so why would Dennis or anyone else want to make parts in the USA? If they did, the prices would be at least TRIPLE of what they are now.

Y'all that never worked in the autobiz have no clue what goes on behind the scenes, so you taken in by this malarky. I'm not, because "I know the score."
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  #32  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:18 AM
70_RangerXLT 70_RangerXLT is offline
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Sorry, ND, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points.

First, the 194 WAS used as the instrument cluster illumination bulb in the 70-72 F-series trucks. Yep, wedge base is correct, with a plastic twist in housing. They also are used in the rear side marker lamps on these same vehicles.

Second, I DO work behind the scenes in automotive manufacturing, and have for many years. I can tell you WITHOUT A DOUBT that Ford and the other manufacturers DO OWN many of the tools used for manufacturing, even though the parts are manufactured by outside vendors. Even though the vendor may have the tool built, Ford and the others PAY for the tool, and it is THE PROPERTY of the PURCHASER. That is so they can pull the tool from a manufacturer at any time and send it to a competitor for whatever reason. This also applies to assembly machines and other equipment used to manufacture the parts. Consider this: A parts manufacturer goes bankrupt and shuts their doors. This could shut Ford down for an indefinite period of time if they had to have someone else bid on the parts and have tooling built. Yes, some of the tooling is HUGE!!! If they had to have one of these HUGE tools built, then go through the PPAP process (quality, meaning Production Part Pre-Approval process), how long do you think it would take? If you want to argue this point, I'll be GLAD to butt heads with you.

DC advertises on his website and in his catalogs that 100% of the reproduction parts that he sells that are manufactured on ORIGINAL FORD TOOLING are MADE IN THE USA. If you disagree with that, you probably need to file a complaint with the FTC for false advertising and see where that gets you. His facility is also over 300,000 square feet, which, in addition to housing warehouse space, houses SOME manufacturing. Do you realize how big 300,000 SF is? It's the size of TEN FOOTBALL FIELDS!! So, if you think all of that is just warehouse, you apparently haven't ever been there.

Bill, you've helped me out on many occasions and I sincerely appreciate that, but with all due respect, I have MUCH more knowledge on the manufacturing side than you (both as a Tier 1 and Tier 2 manufacturer), and I DO have the MPC for trucks from 1964 thru 1989 to look up part numbers. Yes, you have experience on the parts SALES side, but I've got you beat on both the MANUFACTURING side AND the installation side, since I was a technician for many years before getting an engineering degree and moving into manufacturing.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, nor add fuel to the fire, but you're NOT ALWAYS right, Bill...
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  #33  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:44 AM
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Man, Fordification has "BS" references and now Dennis Carpenter is "false advertising"?? Who can we trust when it comes to these trucks??? LOL!! Like I said before, I am done with this subject. This topic is getting way out of hand......Im moving on........
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:00 PM
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Nevermind, its not worth it.
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  #35  
Old 10-27-2011, 01:50 AM
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Well, thanks for all the interesting reading. Everyone must be calling the parts people with the reflectors, I have struck out. I will try a few more tomorrow....
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  #36  
Old 10-27-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70_RangerXLT View Post
Sorry, ND, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points.

First, the 194 WAS used as the instrument cluster illumination bulb in the 70-72 F-series trucks. Yep, wedge base is correct, with a plastic twist in housing. They also are used in the rear side marker lamps on these same vehicles.
i never said the 194 wasn't used, all I said was the 194 bulb isn't listed in the truck catalog. Since printed circuits were introduced in 1970, they used the same bulb holders/194 bulbs as the cars.

DC advertises on his website and in his catalogs that 100% of the reproduction parts that he sells that are manufactured on ORIGINAL FORD TOOLING are MADE IN THE USA.
Where in DC's catalogs does it say the reproduction parts are MADE IN THE USA?

I have DC's 2008 and 2011 editions of the: 1948/56, 1957/66, 1967/79, 1980/96 truck repro catalogs (all on paper). DC says he uses original Ford dies (tooling) for some of the parts, the parts are licensed by Ford (he pays a fee to get that license) but, there is nothing stated that the parts are MADE IN THE USA.

What is stated: "Overseas" parts and the reasons why DC manufactures the parts there.

If you disagree with that, you probably need to file a complaint with the FTC for false advertising and see where that gets you. His facility is also over 300,000 square feet, which, in addition to housing warehouse space, houses SOME manufacturing. Do you realize how big 300,000 SF is? It's the size of TEN FOOTBALL FIELDS!!

So, if you think all of that is just warehouse, you apparently haven't ever been there.
Uh huh, yeah right.
Do you know who Pat Ford is? He used to own the three day F100 Super Nationals Truck Show/Swap Meet. When he sold it, he went to work for Dennis Carpenter.

He's DC's "road man" attends many nationwide shows/swap meets, driving a Ford F350 Super Duty Crew Cab pulling a trailer loaded with DC's parts catalogs, repro parts.

At the 2010 F100 Western Nationals Truck Show (staged by Pickups Limited, held at Featherly Park in Yorba Linda CA), I asked him where DC's parts are made. CHINA was the answer, excepting weatherstrips. C-H-I-N-A not the USA...excepting weatherstripes. If you don't believe me..ask him.

Green Sales Co. has the largest inventory of NOS FoMoCo obsolete parts on the planet. Who has the second largest stock? Dennis Carpenter does, and he's buying more, because he made "a deal" with FoMoCo that allows him to buy obsolete parts directly from them that they are planning to obsolete. How much warehouse space do you think he needs at his Concord facility to store all this crap?

In 2004, I attended the the Studebaker Drivers Club National Show/Swapmeet held in Charlotte. When the show ended, I drove up the DC's place in Concord, was there over four hours, spent 3 grand buying mostly NOS parts for my 1963 Galaxies. Tom (a former Ford partsman) waited on me. There was one huge building, quite a few out buildings...but none were large enough to house all the original tooling you claim he has. A 3 story building would be necessasy to house the press that stamps out grilles...I didn't see any 3 story buildings there.

I did buy some repro parts, the FORD hood letters were on back order. When I received them a coupla weeks later, there was a small yellow label glued to the package that said MADE IN CHINA.

US law on the books for over 100 years: Items imported and sold in the USA must have the country of origin marked on them or on the packaging. Since the label is glued on, it can be peeled off.

So...who many of these labels have the repro parts sellers peeled off? Personally I don't give a damn, because I don't buy repro parts as a general rule. The FORD letters I bought from DC began to pit within a year. When examined, the chrome was plated onto bare steel. Genuine Ford chrome had two coats of copper, one coat of nickel and one coat of chrome. I threw the letters away, had my originals rechromed.

The so-called original tooling jazz: All it takes to reproduce a part is to use an original part...which was obviously made from original tooling.

In 1976, a friend and I reproduced 1965/68 Mustang and 1961/63 Falcon antenna bases, had them made in Taiwan. The only antenna available at that time from Ford was C8UZ-18813-A (1969/74 Econoline). It was identical to the Falcon and Mustang antennas, except the base was different.

Since FoMoCo did not sell the Mustang base only (the Falcon base was available by itself, but was obsolete), we sent a used Mustang base, NOS plastic Falcon base to Taiwan, had 500 of each made.

When we received the bases, we packaged them with the Econoline antenna, sold them at swap meets and in Hemmings Motor News.
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2011, 09:29 PM
69jwatson 69jwatson is offline
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After I removed the lights the numbers on the back do not match the numbers you gave me? I have C7TB-13A570-A RH and C7TB-13A571-A LH

Why are the numbers different?
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69jwatson View Post
I cant seem to find the reflector that sits under the tail light on the LMC catalog or any other catalog. All I ever seem to find is 70-72, will this work on my 69 ranger?
I have a set...thought I was buying the side reflectors for my 68. They're oringinal in good shape.

Anyone have a good set of side reflectors?
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  #39  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:55 PM
david13 david13 is offline
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1967 68 truck

most of the parrts made was a year before they come out like they are today,so if your taillight says 68 it was probley mad in 67 or early 68,ant thats the way it still is
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  #40  
Old 06-28-2012, 11:00 PM
david13 david13 is offline
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and if you think you drive america made truck you might be wrong they where made in Ontario Canada just check your vin
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  #41  
Old 01-31-2013, 01:16 AM
69jwatson 69jwatson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdob View Post
I have a set...thought I was buying the side reflectors for my 68. They're oringinal in good shape.

Anyone have a good set of side reflectors?
digging through the ole thread and seen this post. do you still have the reflectors
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  #42  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 69jwatson View Post
After I removed the lights the numbers on the back do not match the numbers you gave me? I have C7TB-13A570-A RH and C7TB-13A571-A LH

Why are the numbers different?
These are the ID engineering numbers marked on the parts themselves, they are not Ford part numbers.

There are no Ford part numbers marked on parts after 1956, just casting and ID engineering numbers (when applicable).
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  #43  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:47 AM
The Masked Rider The Masked Rider is offline
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Bill, check your email...
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  #44  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:41 AM
69jwatson 69jwatson is offline
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Originally Posted by NumberDummy View Post
These are the ID engineering numbers marked on the parts themselves, they are not Ford part numbers.

There are no Ford part numbers marked on parts after 1956, just casting and ID engineering numbers (when applicable).


Thanks ND, I never have found any of the 69 reflectors. I did find some from a 70' model but they are significantly smaller. I take that back, I got ahold of one of your guys you listed but he must have thought I was made of money. He was asking 150.00 for each of them...

I am still in the market for the right reflector if anyone is listening.
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  #45  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by NumberDummy View Post
This post # 5 was typed 10/20/2011 / Updated 1/31/2013

C7TZ-13380-A .. Marker Light (reflector) below Right Tail Light-Red / Obsolete

GRIESEL MOTOR CO. in Okarche OK has 1 = 405-263-7242.

KLIMESH MOTOR SALES in Calmar IA has 1 = 563-562-3241.

OWEN FORD in Jarratt VA has 1 = 434-535-8515.

PARTS INTERNATIONAL in Farmers Branch TX has 1 = 888-727-0418

GREEN SALES CO. in Cincinnati OH has 5 = 800-543-4959.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69jwatson
I never have found any of the 69 reflectors. I am still in the market for the right reflector.
Post 5 was originally typed for your benefit. I just updated it.

(sigh) After 15 months have passed by, the first 3 sources still have the same quantity, the 4th source is new and Green Sales now has 4 additional.

These are NOS (New Old Stock) genuine Ford parts. Call each one of the sources to find out "how much."
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Last edited by NumberDummy; 01-31-2013 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Revised original post to reflect quantity available.
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