Crossmember installation - Can anyone offer suggestions?
#61
07-23-2012, 04:06 PM
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Hey There,
I just read your thread and it looks like the same problem I ran into with my mounts. I had a fab shop make it right, so they modified the cross member to drop the engine significantly into the mount. My mount started out like this:
But was changed by my fab shop for the engine and trans to sit like this:
The engine sits like this:
That was my fix for the problem that looks like it could be the same as yours.
Joe
I just read your thread and it looks like the same problem I ran into with my mounts. I had a fab shop make it right, so they modified the cross member to drop the engine significantly into the mount. My mount started out like this:
But was changed by my fab shop for the engine and trans to sit like this:
The engine sits like this:
That was my fix for the problem that looks like it could be the same as yours.
Joe
#62
07-23-2012, 06:46 PM
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I see lots of conversation going back and forth about how high and low and how much to the front and rear and side to side. What I don't see, unless I missed it, is discussion about where the fan shaft on the waterpump is in relation to the frame and radiator.
You might be able to get the engine and trans right where nothing hits and there is a lot of clearance, but then you might not have enough clearance by the waterpump fan shaft to mount a big mechanical fan. I know that's the mistake we made. Eveything is cool but the mechancal fan is too low and we had to notch the bottom of the radiator core support and still can't swing a 17" fan.
If I ever re-do mine, the engine will be higher and closer to the firewall, even if I have to raise the tranny cover.
Good luck.
You might be able to get the engine and trans right where nothing hits and there is a lot of clearance, but then you might not have enough clearance by the waterpump fan shaft to mount a big mechanical fan. I know that's the mistake we made. Eveything is cool but the mechancal fan is too low and we had to notch the bottom of the radiator core support and still can't swing a 17" fan.
If I ever re-do mine, the engine will be higher and closer to the firewall, even if I have to raise the tranny cover.
Good luck.
I was planning on running an electric fan. By leveling and centering the engine, the fan will be to low to line up with the radiator. Unless I make a crazy off center fan shroud.
#63
07-23-2012, 06:51 PM
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Ford Weld-In Motor Mounts - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop
#64
07-23-2012, 06:57 PM
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AmericanROCKBREAD:
That looks good, I have been thinking about trying that, but I am not sure if it will put the engine low enough. What transmission cross member are you using? What transmission? What kind of space do you have between the trans and cab? Is the engine centered over the axle?
That looks good, I have been thinking about trying that, but I am not sure if it will put the engine low enough. What transmission cross member are you using? What transmission? What kind of space do you have between the trans and cab? Is the engine centered over the axle?
#65
07-24-2012, 06:24 PM
I think you can get away with a couple of degrees of tilt if that helps align everything and allows some clearance to the cab.
What rear end are you planning to run. If you pick up a Ford 9", the pumplin is not centered between the axles. You can shim the rear end to match the angle of the engine and allow the sideways offset of the rear end provide the offset that you need for the U-joint phasing.
On my sbf installation, I also had to eliminate the stock transmission cross member. I put in a strap on the top of the frame to tie the frame together....after seeking advice here on FTE, the members convinced me that the cab mounts are cantalevered enough so that the frame will sag outward if some support isn't added.
Here's that tie-strap:
What rear end are you planning to run. If you pick up a Ford 9", the pumplin is not centered between the axles. You can shim the rear end to match the angle of the engine and allow the sideways offset of the rear end provide the offset that you need for the U-joint phasing.
On my sbf installation, I also had to eliminate the stock transmission cross member. I put in a strap on the top of the frame to tie the frame together....after seeking advice here on FTE, the members convinced me that the cab mounts are cantalevered enough so that the frame will sag outward if some support isn't added.
Here's that tie-strap:
#66
07-24-2012, 06:29 PM
I think you can get away with a couple of degrees of tilt if that helps align everything and allows some clearance to the cab.
What rear end are you planning to run. If you pick up a Ford 9", the pumplin is not centered between the axles. You can shim the rear end to match the angle of the engine and allow the sideways offset of the rear end provide the offset that you need for the U-joint phasing.
On my sbf installation, I also had to eliminate the stock transmission cross member. I put in a strap on the top of the frame to tie the frame together....after seeking advice here on FTE, the members convinced me that the cab mounts are cantalevered enough so that the frame will sag outward if some support isn't added.
Here's that tie-strap:
What rear end are you planning to run. If you pick up a Ford 9", the pumplin is not centered between the axles. You can shim the rear end to match the angle of the engine and allow the sideways offset of the rear end provide the offset that you need for the U-joint phasing.
On my sbf installation, I also had to eliminate the stock transmission cross member. I put in a strap on the top of the frame to tie the frame together....after seeking advice here on FTE, the members convinced me that the cab mounts are cantalevered enough so that the frame will sag outward if some support isn't added.
Here's that tie-strap:
Sam
#67
07-25-2012, 12:08 PM
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I think you can get away with a couple of degrees of tilt if that helps align everything and allows some clearance to the cab.
What rear end are you planning to run. If you pick up a Ford 9", the pumplin is not centered between the axles. You can shim the rear end to match the angle of the engine and allow the sideways offset of the rear end provide the offset that you need for the U-joint phasing.
On my sbf installation, I also had to eliminate the stock transmission cross member. I put in a strap on the top of the frame to tie the frame together....after seeking advice here on FTE, the members convinced me that the cab mounts are cantalevered enough so that the frame will sag outward if some support isn't added.
What rear end are you planning to run. If you pick up a Ford 9", the pumplin is not centered between the axles. You can shim the rear end to match the angle of the engine and allow the sideways offset of the rear end provide the offset that you need for the U-joint phasing.
On my sbf installation, I also had to eliminate the stock transmission cross member. I put in a strap on the top of the frame to tie the frame together....after seeking advice here on FTE, the members convinced me that the cab mounts are cantalevered enough so that the frame will sag outward if some support isn't added.
The previous owner removed the stock trans cross member. I am not even sure what goes there. I have this for the cross member:
http://www.f100central.com/catalog/c...ber_300pix.jpg
So you are saying that I need more? How many cross members do the stock frames need? I know that the frame needs to flex some.
#68
07-25-2012, 05:05 PM
The stock crossmember is a beefy thing that is mounted near the rear can mounts... It is so big that it basically keeps the frame from twisting out which would allow the rear of the cab to sag. The crossmember in the link is like the one under my trans, & it doesn't tie the top of the frame together. The bracket that I added is a simple 1/4 inch strap bolted in with flush head bolts. I then added the diagonal pieces for extra measure.
Dan
Dan
#69
07-29-2012, 02:37 PM
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The stock crossmember is a beefy thing that is mounted near the rear can mounts... It is so big that it basically keeps the frame from twisting out which would allow the rear of the cab to sag. The crossmember in the link is like the one under my trans, & it doesn't tie the top of the frame together. The bracket that I added is a simple 1/4 inch strap bolted in with flush head bolts. I then added the diagonal pieces for extra measure.
Dan
Dan
#70
07-29-2012, 10:35 PM
I bought THIS CROSS MEMBER from f100 central. It did not come with any installation guidelines and I hope yall can help me out because I have never installed a cross member before. Suggestions are welcome.
The truck is a 56 F100. The engine/trans is a 302/4R70W from a 98 exploder and will be using all of the EFI/trans wiring. The suspension/steering is stock. My plan is to use the cherry picker to hold the 302 over the frame and decide where I want the engine to sit. Make some rough estimates and marks, then go back and square it all up and install the cross member for good. Just sounds too easy.
My concerns fall into sitting it too close to the firewall and running into an unforseen problem with clearance for steering, headers, efi components, etc. I know many of yall have experience and I am welcome on what is the best way to tackle this.
Thanks in advance,
John
The truck is a 56 F100. The engine/trans is a 302/4R70W from a 98 exploder and will be using all of the EFI/trans wiring. The suspension/steering is stock. My plan is to use the cherry picker to hold the 302 over the frame and decide where I want the engine to sit. Make some rough estimates and marks, then go back and square it all up and install the cross member for good. Just sounds too easy.
My concerns fall into sitting it too close to the firewall and running into an unforseen problem with clearance for steering, headers, efi components, etc. I know many of yall have experience and I am welcome on what is the best way to tackle this.
Thanks in advance,
John
#71
07-30-2012, 01:59 PM
I am using a 8.8 rear axle. It is just sitting under the frame and the spring perches have not been welded on yet so I can still set the angle of the input flange.
The previous owner removed the stock trans cross member. I am not even sure what goes there. I have this for the cross member:
http://www.f100central.com/catalog/c...ber_300pix.jpg
So you are saying that I need more? How many cross members do the stock frames need? I know that the frame needs to flex some.
The previous owner removed the stock trans cross member. I am not even sure what goes there. I have this for the cross member:
http://www.f100central.com/catalog/c...ber_300pix.jpg
So you are saying that I need more? How many cross members do the stock frames need? I know that the frame needs to flex some.
The problem is that the other cross members don't provide the necessary support at the area where the front cab mounts are. The weight of the cab is somewhat forward, and the word is that the frame can twist. The original crossmember wraps all the way up to the top of the frame. The part in your reference only ties the bottom of the frame together, and it is quite a bit back from those front cab mounts. I think I mis-spoke in an earlier post & said rear cab mounts....I meant front...the ones that stick out several inches making a great lever arm with a twisting moment on the frame.
Dan
#72
08-01-2012, 11:48 AM
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The problem is that the other cross members don't provide the necessary support at the area where the front cab mounts are. The weight of the cab is somewhat forward, and the word is that the frame can twist. The original crossmember wraps all the way up to the top of the frame. The part in your reference only ties the bottom of the frame together, and it is quite a bit back from those front cab mounts. I think I mis-spoke in an earlier post & said rear cab mounts....I meant front...the ones that stick out several inches making a great lever arm with a twisting moment on the frame.
Dan
Dan
#73
08-01-2012, 12:25 PM
Ok, I guess it's time to chime in on this discussion. Here is a force analysis for the F100 frame that shows why FOMOCO put the crossmember where they did on these frames. If you remove this crossmember, and do not install another that will counteract the rotational forces on the frame rails, then you WILL crack the frame.
Please note, this has nothing to do with the rear trans mount nor does it have anything to do with the front engine mounts...this is soley about the forces applied to the frame by the weight of the cab on the cab mount wings. I have tried to keep this drawing as un-technical as I can but there is only so much you can do when trying to explain forces on a structural body.
Please note, this has nothing to do with the rear trans mount nor does it have anything to do with the front engine mounts...this is soley about the forces applied to the frame by the weight of the cab on the cab mount wings. I have tried to keep this drawing as un-technical as I can but there is only so much you can do when trying to explain forces on a structural body.
#75
08-11-2012, 04:56 PM
F3 exhaust
I mounted mine against the bottom of the frame rail on 1/2" forward of the steering box (I did add the toyota box for power steering). My oil pan clears the bar/axle/drag link and the motor clears the firewall. I went through four different sets of exhaust manifolds to find the ones that fit. they came out of a mid-80s bronco. For the transmission I just had to take out the stock crossmember, turn it around backwards and remount it 4 1/2"s back. I then needed to build up the top about an inch to use the stock AOD mount. Mine is an F3 though and I've been told the crossmembers are different.
Mike
Mike
Also I'm not sure if cab mount is same on your F3 or what other stuff is different?