I don't know of any aftermarket MAP sensors that are available, even then, I don't know if anyone has been able to successfully change the VE tables to read anything above .996.
The last SD combo I ran, I didn't use an FMU; larger injectors and more fuel volume and simply adjusted fueling through a WOT multiplier at certain RPM increments, as boost pressure increased. This worked ok until the seasons changed or the humidity changed dramatically, fueling became richer or leaner. When in closed loop, the ECU can compensate fueling, but in open loop/WOT is when in noticed the changes since there isn't a fuel trimming in this mode. I had to load three different files on a chip so I could switch programs; basically from cold to mild to hot.

I've had an easier time tuning mass air than I did speed density, with forced induction. There are many that will swear by speed density, and that mass air is not needed, and for some applications swapping isn't necessary. However, when I switched several years ago, I was able to iron out many issues that I couldn't with speed density; fueling and drive-ability are much better now.

Tuning the transfer function is one of the most critical parts of tuning a MAF system. But once you have it dialed in, there shouldn't be any reason to change it after that. There is a couple of ways to do this though depending on what air meter you plan to used; Pro-M/C&L or a Ford type like a 90mm Lightning air meter. I don't know how you would attack it using Moates, but I believe it is very similar to the way I do it with SCT.

 

Is there anything that can be done to tune a 460 EFI engine? Are there any def files available for them? I would like to do some engine mods on my truck but haven't done anything yet because of the lack of info for tuning the 460's

 

The size of the engine shouldn't make a difference on whether it can be tuned or not. The things that will dictate whether an EEC can control the engine are things like ignition type, trans control, dash control, ABS control, PATS, fuel pump control, etc. All these are things you need to be sure your EEC can do. However if you already have an EEC controlling it, you just want to modify it, then email Adam at POPSRACING to see if he has a def for you.

 

i have a 96 MAF FI 4.9 300 5 speed. i want to get some of this computer stuff for my truck. what exactly should i get? im looking for more powere torque and mpg's. and where should i buy? i dont want to do anything that would hurt the engine either. thanks for taking your time to look at this

 

What mods have you done to the engine? If its all stock, then about the only fuel economy mods are going to be to force Open Loop and run the engine leaner at cruising loads. Sure the NOx emissions will skyrocket even with a CAT, but who cares? Even if you have to get emission tested, just flip to an "emissions" tune, go pass, and then flip back to your normal good fuel economy tune when leaving.

As for more power, the only 2 things that you can do with fuel economy is to adjust the WOT AFRs and WOT Spark. Depending on how conservative the stock tune is will dictate how much torque is being left on the table in the stock tune. I don't know anybody that's taken the time to much with the 300 L6s. I've heard they are good engines for torque, but I wasn't aware there was much in the way of aftermarket parts for those things. I remember JC Whitney used to sell a 4-barrel carb to replace the stock 1-barrel setup. And I ASSUME there's a header for them. But new heads and cam? No clue...

But back to your question. What would you need? First off, contact Adam at POPSRACING to see if he has a def for your EEC. He'll need the catch code for your EEC so have that handy when you PM/email/talk to him. Assuming he does have a def, then you'll want a Moates Quarterhorse, BinaryEditor, EEC Analyzer, and preferably an Innovate LC1 WB.

 

Compcams sell cams for them....A couple others do too, I think Cliffords has them also....

As for heads, the head is about as good as your gonna get, save for the $7,000 race head with no water jackets thats available.....

Cliffords also sells the Headers for the 300...
But I see no reason that one couldn't the the exhaust off from the flange back and weld larger pipe in....It'd be roughly the same IMO for less cost....

-Wes

 

Interesting. So the common mods are swap the cam, port the head, and maybe do some machine work to get a tighter quench and higher compression? If so, what are the torque/fuel economy gains usually gotten from those mods alone? I know there are quite a few Jeep L6 builders out there that bore-n-stroke those engines and get some pretty impressive numbers from them. So I expect there's a fair amount of potential in the Ford 300 L6 too. I just don't know much about them.

But yeah, get an LC1, setup the HEGO emulation channel (Channel 1 I think) to be wider than it is by default. That's adjusted using LM Programmer (available on the Innovate website). Stock HEGO switchpoint in most EECs is around .4-.43v which on a standard HEGO is about 1.00 lambda (14.64 AFR). What you are trying to do with the LC1 is retask the emulated HEGO output such that .4v is associated with a higher AFR than 1.00 lambda. So for instance have .4v analgous to 1.02-1.04 lambda (15.0-15.5 AFR). Now the EEC's Closed Loop functionality is running the engine leaner than it would with HEGOs. Running lean at WOT would be bad, but at cruise and other moderately low RPM Closed Loop conditions, it should be just fine. There's not enough air and fuel going into the engine to be destructive.

Theoretical best fuel economy is gotten at around 1.10 lambda (16 AFR), but most engines are bucking & surging way before you get that high. So while you generally get the lowest Hydrocarbon production at that AFR, it's just not a practical setpt to target on most engines. I think someone on the EECTuning.org forum said engines are like women, what you want them to do and what you can get them to do are often very differnet. But some men are lucky enough to have an "open minded woman". So perhaps your engine would be equally as open minded? That's one of those things you'd just have to experiment with and find what is and isn't possible. Some engines can actually get that high while cruising stable, but can't do it at idle or off-idle in which case you might wish to get a lot more complicated in the tune to get those leaner AFRs while cruise, but allow a stoic idle. The nice part is with a tuning device and a WB, you have options to tinker and play with.

BTW, if you aren't sure what "lambda" is, read this article:
EECTuning.org • View topic - Widebands DO NOT measure AFR.

 

Chris...do you know of any programs...possibly in excel to calculate injector timing for a given camshaft? I am sure EA has this capability but I have had other areas that I need to take care of before purchasing EA.

 

will a fox mustang injector harness work as a donor for MAF swap? oR does it have to be truck specific? I have a markVII with 5.0 junked outside...same as stang.
All I need is the MAF wires, maf, computer.

 

Any spreadsheet would just be a guess. And to be honest, Injector timing is one of those places people obsess over and isn't worth obsessing over. You get values that "feel" right to you or give you an improved fuel economy and roll with that. Zero-over lap cams (cams that have zero overlap@.050", not .006") typically don't have any special requirements for timing since there's no significant overlap to allow unburned intake air to slip into the exhaust. So you can take advantage of pre-heating the fuel by spraying on the backside of the intake valve before it opens to help atomize the fuel AND to keep the head and intake valve cooler. For an L6, I expect this will be what you'll do.

Now what EA does is takes your actual datalog and finds how long the Injectors are ON during the various RPM/Load range and then offsets that when you want the injectors to start firing to come up with a STOP/OFF crank position, which is what most tunes want as input in the Injector Timing table. So if its your intention to start firing the injectors 150-200 crank degrees before the intake valve opens, EA accepts as input your cam specs and your datalog, then calculates out values to get the EEC to start injecting at that time. However as you start to get into the higher RPM/Load range, there just isn't enough time to get all the fuel sprayed before the intake valve closes, so what you want to do is limit the values EA calculates to roughly a value of 550. So even if EA calculates a value of 600, enter 550 into the tune. The result will be that the EEC will have to fire the injector before you expected, but that's preferable to the injector not getting all the fuel injected before the intake valve closes.

For more details on this, I highly recommend you download and install EEC Analyzer to read the helpfiles on the Cam Specs tab. Even unregistered, you can see what all EA will do and get access to all of the helpfiles, which are far more than just help on the various features of the tool. The helpfiles (of which I helped Clint write BTW), go into a good bit of depth about tuning theory. Our logic was that without an explanation of tuning theory, it was difficult to document what the tool was doing. So even if you never register the tool, it is worth downloading and installing just to read through all the helpfiles. Also note some pages have multiple help buttons, but they don't all go to the same helpfile. The help was intended to be context-sensitive so you get help specifically related to what the help button was next to.

 

Any wiring harness can be made to work.

When I did my project, I got a fox body wiring harness out of, I-don't-know-what, off a guy selling supposedly Mustang harnesses on the Internet. I took the wire loom off, unwrapped the electrical tape off of it and made myself a nice pretty spiderweb. Since nothing in my engine bay hooked up to that wiring harness in any meaningful shape way or fashion, I went wire-by-wire, wire-stretching (relocating) the wires to where they needed to be. I even went to the junkyard and clipped the wire harness ends off a junked Ranger and soldered those to this harness. Keep-Alive power, ignition power, starter power, fuel pump power, tach signal, neutral/drive signal, AC cut-out, and all the other signals that the main harness gets from the chassis harness was gotten through those Ranger stock connectors. My intention was to not touch a single wire on the chassis harness. I made heavy use of Mustang wiring diagrams as well as Ranger wiring diagrams and a few references in the EVTMs. I got all that info from http://Helminc.com.

When I was done, I loomed up all the wires back together in my heavily modified harness, shortened wires where I guessed too long, and when it was all wrapped up, I plugged it right into the engine as well as into my truck's chassis connectors just like the stock V6 harness did. Amazingly the truck cranked right up. The only goof I made that I'm aware of is that the fuel pump monitor going to the EEC is currently tied to ground, not to power. So the EEC thinks the fuel pump is always in fault. But that doesn't affect anything other than a code in the EEC if you actually scan for codes. Since it's not an issue, I haven't been motivated to do anything about it.

So to recap, as long as you can make the connection between the necessary pins in your EEC, sensors, and power connections, you should be good to go.

 

I had the FPM signal in my markVII after maf swap as well, tied it in and got rid of it.

no question is the o2 sensors...do I need to wire 2 in since I will be using a stang computer?

 

If you are running a dual bank header, then 2 HEGOs would be preferable since the EEC wants to run as dual bank. However if all you have is stock manifold/single header, then the EEC can be configured for a single-bank configuration. That's done with a scalar setting to indicate only 1 HEGO and an update to the Injector Bank table to set all injectors to Bank 1. If the EEC was a V8 EEC, then you'll also need to update the various scalars to know that there's only 6 cylinders. That's at least 1 place in the older tunes. There may be a few places where that's adjusted for in the EEC-V stuff. I can't remember. Adam at POPSRACING will know for sure.

 

Interesting thread, I wish I had seen this earlier. I will throw a few things I have learned into the pot.

First, I haven't messed any with Generous Motors EFI stuff, primarily because it took them so long to build real EFI, not TBI or the POS Vortec stuff. Second, I have done a lot of playing with turbocharged Chrysler engines, initially using 1987 Dodge Daytona electronics in a K-car convertible with a 2.2L TurboII and A604 (where the screen name comes from). Those, like GM, you have to chip, I have all three types of older MOPAR ECMs, 2-piece (83-87), SMEC (88-89) and SBEC (90 on till the current style). 2-piece is the easiest, the logic modules are like a Ford, not potted, the others are potted.

I started my current project about 2-3 years ago, a 1986 F350, 460/C6 that I have now converted to EFI/E4OD. Long term is to go to MAF/SEFI from the SD system. Since the truck is an 86, and I live in VA, I only have to meet 1986 emission requirements. The truck was NON-CATALYST (from VECI label) as built. My problem has been finding any documentation on the 460 SD EECs. The only factory MAF 460s are 96-97 CA and MA models. These are also EEC-V rather than EEC-IV. My EEC for the MAF conversion is a WAY1 code which runs the VEX1 strategy, this is pretty well broken out and documented as it is a 302/E4OD combe fitted to 4wd F-series and Bronco. I am not intimidated by the wiring (see my thread "major rework to 1986 F-350") and have already built an SEFI engine harness and have a front harness ready to go in that matches it.

The problem comes in adapting the 302 EEC to a 460, 1.5X displacement, 1.26X injector size and I don't need it or want it to rev like a 302. The 460/E4OD EEC is capable of applying the TCC in first, does it regularly in 2nd and will climb a reasonable grade with a load (Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel tubes) at 1500rpm in 4th and never come out of lockup (it's called torque). Trying to find anyone who has extracted the E4OD tables from an SD 460 has proved elusive so far, Adam at POPSRACING has been a help along with some of the EEC-tuning and TwEECer group.

As for hardware and software, I was looking at the Moates QH or Jaybird, leaning toward the QH until I ran across a TwEECer RT for $150. So I have that. Long term will be 9.2-9.5cr .040 over with and Edelbrock Performer Plus #2167 with 110 degree lobe separation.

If any of you more experienced gentlemen have something to help on this, let me know, I am open to suggestions.

 

Adjusting for higher displacement is just typing in a number. Getting the EEC to work with your engine is the easy part. Getting the torque tables that control the transmission are not likely to be a huge deal. You set up what behavior you want and run with it.

I see your biggest issues being the learning curve associated with getting comfortable with the strategy itself.

I am sorry you got a TwEECerRT, but for $150, that probably is tough to turn down. Although if I had the choice, the Moates QH for $250 would've been worth the additional $100 to me. But that's me knowing what I expect to see. As someone new to tuning, I probably would've made the same decision.

As long as the EEC you are using is capable of controlling an E4OD and the tranny is built to handle the torque of the E4OD, I'd say you are fine there. Although any cam with an LSA of 110 sounds a bit more aggressive than I would've expected for a BB. I would've thought a cam with a 114 LSA, 112 at the smallest, would've been more what you were looking for. But with a 460, you have plenty. It's just not as much torque as you could have for a truck. 110 LSA is what I expect for people doing racing. But I'm also saying that without having any of the other specs. LSA is only 1 of the important specs you need to really classify a cam.