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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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  #46  
Old 02-18-2011, 11:32 PM
mjp_t98 mjp_t98 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1965F100 View Post
73FOMO

You said the HUG1 is 5.0 with 4R70w?
I was not aware of a EEC for this application? What years or models did it come in?

This is good news for me...I want to swap my E4 to a 4R70W, but worried there was no EEC for this.

Know the kicker...I assume it is SD, so will it run my 5.8L with NO mods? Guessing not.
HUG1 is a MAF ECU. for a 5.0 with 4R70W.
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  #47  
Old 02-19-2011, 11:00 AM
Flareside13 Flareside13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Blurry94 View Post
First things first, what kind of power level are you after and what is the main purpose of your rig?
Lets start with the main purpose....overall the truck will mainly be a cruzer/show truck. It will not be used as a DD occasional light towing when I dont feel like draging out the diesel. Power range probably in the 250-325 range. Basicly the goal is to get optimum power out of it with out using FI so if I can hit 350 sure Ill take it.
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  #48  
Old 02-19-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Blurry94 View Post
One of the first things I disable is the tip in timing retard and I also raise the Throttle Valve pressure, at higher throttle positions, to firm up the shifts. If the converter flashes during shift transitions, then I change the lock-up schedules and/or delta ratios to eliminate this if the converter is locked after 1st gear. Flashing the converter under heavy load condition will cause heat to build.

If you're going to eliminate the timing retard, I suggest increasing the TV pressure so the shifts are firm and quick and to reduce the build up of heat.
Hey Blurry-

Long time no chat. I still have the SCT manual you emailed years ago. Boy do I wish I went with my own tuning solution at the time as you suggested. I had a nightmare experience with a custom dyno tuned chip and have been running the OEM HOG1 (MAF, E4OD) PCM since 2008.

Do they still make the SCT pro racer package for OBD-1 vehicles? I remember you needed a different 3 or 4 position switch versus a flash module?

How would you compare the QH package to SCT?

Mike

p.s. As for goals...I'm just looking for two things to tune- 1)tighten up my maps currently as I start leaning out above 4,300 rpm's on 19# injectors and stock truck MAF. And after dyno'ing the 306, theres no valve float on the motor until 5600 rpms when we gave it fuel. 2) Tighten up E4OD shifts, and hold 1st and 2nd gear longer. I'd prefer to buy one tuning solution, as I've considered getting the Baumann TCS trans controller, but I assumed that a proper EEC tuner could do the same. The truck will continue to pull my M3 race car to track events (trailer + car weight is about 4200#). Currently I manually shift through 1st and 2nd gear to get it to cooperate when towing. I'd like to get my hands on a Kenne Bell roots blower for the F150 eventually... but those kits are hard to find. Now that Vortech and Kenne Bell have discontinued their blower kits for our old pickups, that may be a pipe dream. I haven't seen much info on converting a Fox 'stang Kenne Bell kit over to a pickup, but that may be an option I should entertain. The 306 has all forged internals for a blower at some point. I have a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads in the garage as well. They will collect dust until I can tune this current iron headed little 306.
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"Track Rat"-TopasBlue on Cinnamon -3.2L 6spd,11.5:1 CR, JVT Headers/Borla Exhaust, RE pullies, ESS tune, 4.10's, GroundControl Coils, UUC Sways, Rotora 4 piston F&R BBK, 171 mph (closed track) 313 rwhp Dynojet-SAE- 12.88 107.4 mph
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  #49  
Old 02-20-2011, 05:46 PM
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All of this sounds real interesting and like something i would like and possibly need to do. with all the little extra stuff I have done; intake exhaust, roller cam, 1.6 roller rockers, bored 30 over, I know I need some kind of tuning done. And if not now i will for sure need it later I want to supercharge this beast at some point.

However I dont know what the hell yall are talking about in any of this junk. I know my truck can make more power, hopefully alot more, but what should i get to tune it.

The tweecer thing, if im understanding what yall are saying right, is esentially like a flash drive for your eec that feeds it different info like shift points timing afr etc... right? What about the quarterhorse? is it the same thing? or do they work hand in hand and i would need both of them.

when you get into all the programs on your laptop what numbers do you go about changing? Is there like an instruction manual that comes along with it? lol You can pretty much call me eec illiterate

I have been planning on doing a MAF converstion and have got a couple small parts for the conversion. Would it be good for someone who doesnt know much about tuning a computer to have MAF because it is more tolerant of not as accurate tuning?

BTW my trucks a 92 f150, 5.0, SD, E4OD, 4x4 (if that matters)

Someone as stupidly as possible explain this to me if they can. Im gonna go back and read this again and hopefully it will make more sense the second time.

Thank Yall,
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  #50  
Old 02-20-2011, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302flareside1992 View Post
Would it be good for someone who doesnt know much about tuning a computer to have MAF because it is more tolerant of not as accurate tuning?
Tuning one versus the other isn't easier or difficult as long as you understand the differences in how they work philosophically, and further, understand the parameters you are tuning.

The major difference is this - the mass air flow sensor measures the volume of air being sucked in and tells the computer that value, whereas the speed density computer calculates the airflow based on other parameters.

Obviously measuring the airflow would be more accurate than "guessing" it based on a calculation, which in turns allows the computer to arrive at a more accurate conclusion quicker as far as how much fuel to inject.

SD and mass air can be used with factory engines as well as highly modified race engines, naturally aspirated or forced induction.

The one "problem" with speed density EFI is it relies in part on a MAP sensor - which basically reads engine vaccum to determine load. If you were to install a very "lumpy" cam you'll then have vaccum-related issues and your MAP sensor will not produce a steady, smooth stream of data and instead seemingly a bunch of random numbers as the vaccum jumps up and down at idle as the engine "hunts" mechanically as they did in the "old school days" where guys installed lumpy cams in carb'd engines and had some idle issues but really wicked RPM ranges at the top.

That's the primary reason why many people keep hammering the idea to convert to mass air - since it directly measures air being sucked in, how much vaccum you have (or don't depending on the cam) kind of doesn't matter, and allows you far more flexibility with the "hardware" (cam, displacement, stroke, timing, head porting, et al).

If you're not going wild with the cam, then either system will work for you very well, with mass air offering the potential for more accurate fuel metering, which potentially gives you better mileage and less emissions.
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  #51  
Old 02-20-2011, 08:48 PM
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The catch to converting to a MAF is if you cant get a full Engine Harness and ECU from a donor truck you get the joy of putting together your own ECU and your own harness. I have been researching this for the last few days. It would be much easier to convert everything to MAF then tune. DIYautotune has a DIYPNP Do It yourself plug and play. It works off of SD and you can add a ton of features but will require you to get a Stand Alone for the E4OD. Actually either the MAF ECU or the SD ECU your stuck with a Trans Stand Alone. Which I have found and it is also completly tunable but is it worth $600 (roughly) to get both engine and trans tunable? On a 4.9L Im not sure. Maybe just for ****s and Giggles. Also depends how much power you can make with the 4.9L
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  #52  
Old 02-20-2011, 08:49 PM
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The cam I have in now isn't a crazy big cam although I do I have a larger one on hand that I do want to install.
But all in all it really wouldn't matter if I know what I was doing, which I don't lol
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  #53  
Old 02-20-2011, 09:22 PM
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MANIMAL_66_73
I don't know about you but I can take the computer out of a 94 f150 5.0 e4od and use it, because it is still obd1. The trick is finding the harness off a donor, cuz it seems to me by scavenging the local junk yard that only about half or less of that model year are maf equipped. I can go down to advance or autozone and buy the computer for 200$ with a 100$ core on it
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  #54  
Old 02-20-2011, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flareside13 View Post
Lets start with the main purpose....overall the truck will mainly be a cruzer/show truck. It will not be used as a DD occasional light towing when I dont feel like draging out the diesel. Power range probably in the 250-325 range. Basicly the goal is to get optimum power out of it with out using FI so if I can hit 350 sure Ill take it.
Ok, basically, if your combo doesn't 'need' a mass air swap, and you can successfully tune the OEM SD system, then I would try this first before swapping to mass air. A speed density friendly custom grind cam is something I'd recommend. SD can still be tuned with a blower, but you will need to run a wide band at the very minimum. I'd also recommend a good datalogger and fuel pressure gauge.

The transfer function (TF) is a very critical table that allows the engine to be fueled properly when a given amount of airflow has past the MAF sensor.
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  #55  
Old 02-21-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Blurry94 View Post
Ok, basically, if your combo doesn't 'need' a mass air swap, and you can successfully tune the OEM SD system, then I would try this first before swapping to mass air. A speed density friendly custom grind cam is something I'd recommend. SD can still be tuned with a blower, but you will need to run a wide band at the very minimum. I'd also recommend a good datalogger and fuel pressure gauge.

The transfer function (TF) is a very critical table that allows the engine to be fueled properly when a given amount of airflow has past the MAF sensor.
Id much rather stay SD makes life easier. Do you haft to change ECUs or are the tuners your speaking of able to work with the stock ECU?
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  #56  
Old 02-21-2011, 07:48 AM
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Hopefully not off topic, but I do have a question about tuners.

My 93 F350 currently has SD (EEC-IV) and eventually will have EEC-V Mass air, EDIS, etc.

Does any of these tuning "things" work on both? I have the J3 Moates stuff which is specifically aimed at EEC-IV but I was thinking being able to tune both with one thing would be beneficial.

I can "bench" any of the EEC's I might want to use (I have a box of 'em - plenty of choices) and test and tune that way.
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  #57  
Old 02-21-2011, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by frederic View Post
Hopefully not off topic, but I do have a question about tuners.

My 93 F350 currently has SD (EEC-IV) and eventually will have EEC-V Mass air, EDIS, etc.

Does any of these tuning "things" work on both? I have the J3 Moates stuff which is specifically aimed at EEC-IV but I was thinking being able to tune both with one thing would be beneficial.

I can "bench" any of the EEC's I might want to use (I have a box of 'em - plenty of choices) and test and tune that way.
I had a chance this morning to research both Tweecer and QH. QH states that it works with both EEC-IV and EEC-V so to answer your question yes. As for Tweecer it states it works with and EEC computer so I would think it would also work for your app. The question now it which works better? Ive decided Ill be getting one of them just need to know whos it better? I plan to start out just tuning my stock engine to get the feel for it then tune my built engine when it goes in.

Edit: After reading more on the Tweecer it does work with both EEC-IV and EEC-V
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  #58  
Old 02-21-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by frederic View Post
Hopefully not off topic, but I do have a question about tuners.

My 93 F350 currently has SD (EEC-IV) and eventually will have EEC-V Mass air, EDIS, etc.

Does any of these tuning "things" work on both? I have the J3 Moates stuff which is specifically aimed at EEC-IV but I was thinking being able to tune both with one thing would be beneficial.
All of the J3 devices will work on both, although you will need different definition files, one for each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frederic View Post
I can "bench" any of the EEC's I might want to use (I have a box of 'em - plenty of choices) and test and tune that way.
You might be able to "test" that way, but proper tuning would be impossible. You need a QH, a licensed copy of BE, and a licensed def file for each different ECU.
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  #59  
Old 02-21-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mjp_t98 View Post
You might be able to "test" that way, but proper tuning would be impossible. You need a QH, a licensed copy of BE, and a licensed def file for each different ECU.
I just haft to ask what makes the diffrence if you use a QH or a Tweecer? From what I have read the Tweecer seems to be more user friendly with a lot more info availble for it.
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  #60  
Old 02-21-2011, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flareside13 View Post
Id much rather stay SD makes life easier. Do you haft to change ECUs or are the tuners your speaking of able to work with the stock ECU?
No, these are chip versions because they can't be flashed like the OBD-2/EEC-5 units. You can keep your factory ECU
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:56 PM
 
 
 
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