payload
#1
02-20-2019, 12:25 PM
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payload
So.... A 2005 4x4 diesel excursion has a rated payload of 1510. If you are pulling a 10,000# trailer you will/should have a tongue weight of 1,000# or more. That
leaves 500# of payload in the excursion. Not much. 4 adults couldn't ride in X and be within Ford specs of max payload. Am I missing something?
I was thinking of selling the X and the Escalade EXT and getting a newer F150 3.5 eco. They can pull 10,000, but I run into a payload issue...
leaves 500# of payload in the excursion. Not much. 4 adults couldn't ride in X and be within Ford specs of max payload. Am I missing something?
I was thinking of selling the X and the Escalade EXT and getting a newer F150 3.5 eco. They can pull 10,000, but I run into a payload issue...
#3
02-20-2019, 04:14 PM
Cargo Master
No you're not missing anything but I think you may not be considering what max really means. They could have published only 8,000 max tow with the same payload and then yeah you'd be able to fill the vehicle up just fine. But that's not really what max is. Max means I'm giving up in other areas to get the most in this one area, and if so what is the max in this one area. That's what the max towing weight represents.
Using super duty springs, based on ford's 2005 towing guide this is what you get.
137' wheel base, same as excursion, is the regular cab SRW 3.73. I'm assuming 4x4
Vehicle: Excursion Superduty
Cargo: 1,510 2,572
GVWR: 9,200 9,600
GCWR: 20,000 23,000
Tow: 11,000 12,500
The GVWR really tells the story, the super duty springs are good for 400 more lbs of payload. If you put in the SD springs and stuck to Ford's guidance with a 10k trailer you'd have 910 for payload, which would get 4x 180lbs adults each with 20lbs of junk and a full tank of fuel.
There are people here going beyond that, and there is a thread about it. It can be done but you're off the books at that point so you really want to be sure you know what you're doing.
Final thought, it's rare but you can be ticketed for being over weight even in a private vehicle. I have the super duty springs in mine which can handle more weight but that doesn't change the sticker. To stay legal we're still bound by the sticker. I'm not sure if there are any ways to have that officially changed. In the worst case scenario of an accident where someone gets hurt, someone who lawyers up on you and can show that you're over the sticker in any category can argue gross negligence and take you to the cleaners in a civil suit. Most people basically just roll the dice that they won't get bothered.
Using super duty springs, based on ford's 2005 towing guide this is what you get.
137' wheel base, same as excursion, is the regular cab SRW 3.73. I'm assuming 4x4
Vehicle: Excursion Superduty
Cargo: 1,510 2,572
GVWR: 9,200 9,600
GCWR: 20,000 23,000
Tow: 11,000 12,500
The GVWR really tells the story, the super duty springs are good for 400 more lbs of payload. If you put in the SD springs and stuck to Ford's guidance with a 10k trailer you'd have 910 for payload, which would get 4x 180lbs adults each with 20lbs of junk and a full tank of fuel.
There are people here going beyond that, and there is a thread about it. It can be done but you're off the books at that point so you really want to be sure you know what you're doing.
Final thought, it's rare but you can be ticketed for being over weight even in a private vehicle. I have the super duty springs in mine which can handle more weight but that doesn't change the sticker. To stay legal we're still bound by the sticker. I'm not sure if there are any ways to have that officially changed. In the worst case scenario of an accident where someone gets hurt, someone who lawyers up on you and can show that you're over the sticker in any category can argue gross negligence and take you to the cleaners in a civil suit. Most people basically just roll the dice that they won't get bothered.
#4
02-21-2019, 10:12 AM
Lead Driver
You have to remember that it’s just a rating. It is based on the 3/4 1 ton SD’s. The only real difference is the springs. Ford made them soft for the soccer moms, which is why it has the low rating.
IIRC I’m at 9300lbs or so on my V-10 4X4 8900 GVWR. I’m not worried ata lol.
IIRC I’m at 9300lbs or so on my V-10 4X4 8900 GVWR. I’m not worried ata lol.
f250 has a 2 stage spring, the primary rate is 350 pounds per inch, the Excursion uses a single stage spring with a higher rate of 410 lbs. in.
firmer spring rates aside what gives the Ex a diffrent ride then a f250 is the shock tuning.
Springs provide payload support and set ride height
shocks control the ride quality.
#5
02-21-2019, 12:15 PM
Cargo Master
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the Ex rear spring is actually firmer then the f250.
f250 has a 2 stage spring, the primary rate is 350 pounds per inch, the Excursion uses a single stage spring with a higher rate of 410 lbs. in.
firmer spring rates aside what gives the Ex a diffrent ride then a f250 is the shock tuning.
Springs provide payload support and set ride height
shocks control the ride quality.
Again in look at how the X springs are built compared to an SD spring. Each leaf is shorter than the next going from the spring eye all the way back to the axle. This makes them weak. The SD springs are all long and only slightly shorter than each other. This is what makes them better than the X springs, and why they don’t cause the rear steer issues everyone complains about with stock X springs.
Thats all I’m going to say!
#6
02-21-2019, 12:39 PM
Lead Driver
we’ve been over this! Everyone but you seems to believe the X springs are junk when compared to SD springs!
Again in look at how the X springs are built compared to an SD spring. Each leaf is shorter than the next going from the spring eye all the way back to the axle. This makes them weak. The SD springs are all long and only slightly shorter than each other. This is what makes them better than the X springs, and why they don’t cause the rear steer issues everyone complains about with stock X springs.
Thats all I’m going to say!
the Excursion does not have any rear steer issues, that fallacy stems from the marketing done by landyots to sell his crappy product. People complain about wander and mistakenly think it is related to the rear springs, likely from reading incorrect marketing or statements on the internet.
Progressively stacked springs are “better” because they produce less friction giving them a more consistiant spring rate when cycled.
The top 4 springs of the F250 have the same spring rate as the Excursion, what makes them diffrent is the F250 have more arch while the Ex are flatter. This is what gives the f250 more ride height, the whole reason People add the excursion bottom springs to the f250 leaf pack is for the additional spring rate the Ex requires do to its curb weight.
Fwiw... I never state my opinion of the Ex rear spring, junk or not I posted the facts. Facts that everybody in my peer group of suspension engineers and builders know to be true based on geometry, physics and metallurgy.
#7
02-21-2019, 03:35 PM
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#9
02-21-2019, 05:06 PM
Lead Driver
real world, Have you ever driven a vehicle that has rear steer ? P,ease share your rear world results.
Mine are, we build a truck years ago with a rear axle independiantly steered by hydo ram, Going down the highway at 60 mph I could turn the wheels a full 10* and it didn’t cause wander, it just crabs the rear over. As long as the front wheels stay straight actual rear steer does not cause wander.
That said, please explain to me how you think the rear springs on the Ex induce rear steer and how many degrees of angle do your results produce ?
Mine are, we build a truck years ago with a rear axle independiantly steered by hydo ram, Going down the highway at 60 mph I could turn the wheels a full 10* and it didn’t cause wander, it just crabs the rear over. As long as the front wheels stay straight actual rear steer does not cause wander.
That said, please explain to me how you think the rear springs on the Ex induce rear steer and how many degrees of angle do your results produce ?
#10
02-21-2019, 06:29 PM
Lead Driver
Anyhow, that truck had an actual steering rear axle, the first 4 link vehicle I build had horrible rear steer inducted by poor geometry, as the suspension cycled it would steer the rear axle as you can see rather dramatically.
even doing 80mph across the desert with big pot holes and whoops it did not cause a wander issue, the back end would just sort of waddle, like how a linked setup that uses a panhard bar does, the back would just give a little wiggle.
you can clearly see the extreme rear steer in this pic.
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