Excessive fuel trims! Catastrophic failure!
#1
Excessive fuel trims! Catastrophic failure!
So, rattle my brain. Vehicle is a 2012 F350 6.2 that is backfiring and cannot stay at idle. Engine was replaced because it had an shattered exhaust valve and that's how the Air Force keeps the work flow moving (the engine will be repaired and saved for the next catastrophic failure). The cats were clogged because of too much fuel and were replaced. Now it's still doing the same thing and I received the vehicle and I found that the cats were clogged again on bank 1. My stft are +47 and fuel pressure is maxed to 73 PSI. Continuous memory code is lean condition bank 1 sensor 2 (makes sense). I ordered new cats because I need to have properly working O2 sensors to reset the adaptive strategy memory. I'm wondering if the cats could've burnt up again because they didn't reset the adaptive strategy and decided to drive the truck after the last set was put in. I also ordered new O2 sensors just in case. I also threw in a new crank sensor but it needs to be learned but I can't get the truck past 3500 rpm to do that. Am I making the right call? What else should I check. MAF and PCM are new too (not my work). I get that the pressure regulator is working on overdrive because the PCM is trying to get higher fuel trims and I had a lean condition. Any insight on this would be much appreciated.
#3
so we have a fleet of vehicles that we use and swap parts to relearn certain things. The pcm was learned but not to that vehicle but to its sister vehicle. Once installed the vehicle ran, but terrible and it was a matter of time before it ran like it did prior. That's when I was given the vehicle and I found the clogged cat. Now I would assume that the adaptive strategy on that pcm would need to be relearned once new cats come in. Oh and here's the kicker, it's just that one code that I mentioned. O2 sensors are all picking up the rich condition except bank 1 sensor 2. But I'm not getting a code for the rich condition. My scan tool is a Snapon Modis by the way if that's useful information. No other error codes.
#5
I have about 3 days til the new cats come in. But new cats were ordered prior and they ended up burning within a day. I was never able to get information from the technician that installed them on what he did afterwards. It's just odd to me why they would burn up if that should've corrected the lean condition. I also dont know how sensitive the adaptive strategy memory is. From what I've read online, there is a method that includes letting the vehicle idle for 10 minutes. By everything that has happened, unless that process was somehow hacked, this shouldn't have happened again.
#6
I don't think that the adaptive strategy has anything to do with this issue.
Your truck is trying to dump more fuel into the engine because it senses a lean condition. It isn't able to correct the condition, which is why you have an error code.
Burning up catalytic converters is just a symptom. Replacing those won't fix your problem. The computer cannot correct enough to fix the problem.
I'd get another mechanic if I were in your boots.
Your truck is trying to dump more fuel into the engine because it senses a lean condition. It isn't able to correct the condition, which is why you have an error code.
Burning up catalytic converters is just a symptom. Replacing those won't fix your problem. The computer cannot correct enough to fix the problem.
I'd get another mechanic if I were in your boots.
#7
*Correction* IDS will only flash factory settings per vin. As soon as a new PCM is swapped, there goes the memory of the last truck. Meaning that it was reacting and adjusting from those factory settings. And I can’t get another mechanic. I’m currently deployed. But I digress. If 02 sensors aren’t causing the rich condition what are my options? MAF reads fine and every vacuum line was replaced. CKPS was replaced when we got a new engine.
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#9
#10
I really don't know much about this but have worked in the IT infrastructure operations field my entire life which requires well above average troubleshooting skills in order to remain in that field for 44 years. To make sure we properly understand the problem:
*) The truck somehow shattered an exhaust valve
*) As either a result of the shattered exhaust valve or what caused the shattered exhaust valve more fuel is being dumped into the cylinders
*) The truck is reporting an error code which indicates it's running lean (as RedFord requests, the code would be helpful)
*) As a result of the additional fuel being dumped into the cylinders the Cats are getting clogged
*) The engine was replaced but the problem persists, the truck ran like crap and the original "incorrectly reporting a lean condition" issue resurfaced
*) Whatever is causing the lean condition causing more fuel to be dumped into the cylinders is causing the O2 sensors to report a rich condition
I agree with RedFord, the clogged cats as well as the O2 sensors are a symptom, the new Cats will most likely clog again. I'm a little confused on the PCM - was it replaced with the engine using the PCM from the donor truck? I think yes but the PCM was not reflashed, it was just installed and allowed to "learn" the parameters of the truck?
Just laying it out it looks like your issue is something that hasn't been replaced (assuming the PCM was replaced) is causing the truck to incorrectly report a lean condition. That's where I would start, what is causing the "lean condition"? There appears to be another "computer module" under the truck which I noticed when I was undercoating my '13, wonder if that's where the "lean condition" is being stored. Trying to think of "things" that would remain after the engine and PCM were swapped. Not sure how it would cause this but was the fuel filter replaced? The fuel you are using has at a minimum a cetane rating of 40? Maybe someone else can help with "what would cause the engine to think it's running lean"
*) The truck somehow shattered an exhaust valve
*) As either a result of the shattered exhaust valve or what caused the shattered exhaust valve more fuel is being dumped into the cylinders
*) The truck is reporting an error code which indicates it's running lean (as RedFord requests, the code would be helpful)
*) As a result of the additional fuel being dumped into the cylinders the Cats are getting clogged
*) The engine was replaced but the problem persists, the truck ran like crap and the original "incorrectly reporting a lean condition" issue resurfaced
*) Whatever is causing the lean condition causing more fuel to be dumped into the cylinders is causing the O2 sensors to report a rich condition
I agree with RedFord, the clogged cats as well as the O2 sensors are a symptom, the new Cats will most likely clog again. I'm a little confused on the PCM - was it replaced with the engine using the PCM from the donor truck? I think yes but the PCM was not reflashed, it was just installed and allowed to "learn" the parameters of the truck?
Just laying it out it looks like your issue is something that hasn't been replaced (assuming the PCM was replaced) is causing the truck to incorrectly report a lean condition. That's where I would start, what is causing the "lean condition"? There appears to be another "computer module" under the truck which I noticed when I was undercoating my '13, wonder if that's where the "lean condition" is being stored. Trying to think of "things" that would remain after the engine and PCM were swapped. Not sure how it would cause this but was the fuel filter replaced? The fuel you are using has at a minimum a cetane rating of 40? Maybe someone else can help with "what would cause the engine to think it's running lean"
#11
What computer module are you talking about? And the PCM is vin locked. You have to program it with an IDS or something similar to prevent your anti theft from triggering. Yes every vacuum line was replaced. As far as I know this is the list of parts that were ordered. (Yes I know that it is a giant waste of money... not my work);
Engine
PCM
CKPS
Cats
and there was a ton of stuff ordered before the engine.
Before I can diagnose the lean condition, I need to make sure ALL of my O2 sensors are reading fine. The only code was P0171 but the engine codes were cleared from the last mechanic and I can't get a drive cycle out of it. Could this be a miscomunication from a harness to the PCM?
Engine
PCM
CKPS
Cats
and there was a ton of stuff ordered before the engine.
Before I can diagnose the lean condition, I need to make sure ALL of my O2 sensors are reading fine. The only code was P0171 but the engine codes were cleared from the last mechanic and I can't get a drive cycle out of it. Could this be a miscomunication from a harness to the PCM?
#12
A P0171 makes perfect sense. Stop ignoring the error code and throwing parts and guesses at the truck.
You probably have some sort of massive vacuum leak.
I doubt it is a fuel delivery issue. You have already proven that the engine is dumping enough fuel to burn up the catalytic converters.
The cause? Something that was moved from the old engine to the new engine.
Start by troubleshooting for a vacuum leak. Everything upstream of the intake valve should be suspect.
You probably have some sort of massive vacuum leak.
I doubt it is a fuel delivery issue. You have already proven that the engine is dumping enough fuel to burn up the catalytic converters.
The cause? Something that was moved from the old engine to the new engine.
Start by troubleshooting for a vacuum leak. Everything upstream of the intake valve should be suspect.
#13
I smoke tested the intake last week and it passed at 3 psi. Is there an intake runner on these trucks? Or something of sorts? I'm going to pull a vacuum diagram tomorrow and retest. I just ordered the cats to make sure that all fuel trim factoring sensors were operating properly. The initial symptom the operator reported was loss of power and backfiring. I'm assuming he cracked the valve on the way over to our shop. The clogged cat could've been the secondary problem, which cause the backfire which caused the broken valve. The difference between a 6.0 and a 6.2 is the 6.0 always has something to do with the EGR, IPR, or the turbo actuator solenoid. The 6.2, you never know what your gonna get. It would help if there weren't 6 other mechanics that worked on it prior but that's the Air Force for ya. I'll post my findings tomorrow!
#14
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BrassMonkey
1997 - 2003 F150
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11-21-2013 11:01 AM