Hauling 3,000lbs while towing 8,600lbs; is a 6.0 worth considering?
#1
02-12-2019, 07:23 PM
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Hauling 3,000lbs while towing 8,600lbs; is a 6.0 worth considering?
Gentlemen,
I am planning to purchase a tow rig in the near future. I currently tow an 8,600lb (loaded) travel trailer with a 2017 Expedition EL. My trailer is within Ford’s max tow rating for the Expedition (9,100lbs), but it’s performance is lacking. The 3.5l EcoBoost has plenty of power and is an impressive motor (I also had an EcoBoost F-150), but power isn’t the problem. The problem is tow vehicle weight, chassis, suspension and wheelbase.
In addition to pulling the trailer I also plan to haul a 4 seater side by side on a UTV deck on top of the truck. The side by side weighs 1,700lbs, the UTV deck weighs 500lbs and I figure an additional 700lbs for two adults, 3 kids and gear for a total of around 3,000lbs on the truck in addition to the 8,600lb bumper pull travel trailer.
While the power of diesels is appealing, the price is not. The Expedition is our family vehicle and I drive a half ton for my daily driver. This truck will be primarily a tow vehicle and won’t get many miles beyond that purpose. Right now we go on 4-6 camping trips a year. We live in the inland Northwest and every direction we go we drive over steep mountain passes. I estimate the annual mileage will only be 3,000 - 8,000.
With such low annual mileage and the fact that the truck will sit for weeks at a time, I have trouble justifying the cost of a diesel. I also worry about the effect of sitting for so long without good driving on a diesel.
Locally, there is an ‘07 F-350 6.0 Powerstroke 4x4 CCLB Dually with 93k miles that is in excellent condition for $20k. It’s on consignment at a local car lot. It’s owned by a local businessman. He bought it in 2016 with 47k on it from the same dealer. The truck was purchased by the dealership from a local municipality parks and rec. The car lot owner, who is from a local farming family showed me that the same gentlemen had purchased 2 other F-350 6.0s from him along with 5 other trucks over the years. He put this truck on consignment and bought an ‘09 Dodge Dually.
I wasn’t really considering 6.0s but this truck is really good shape and appears to have been maintained well. It has had the following replaced/added in the last 3 years: high pressure oil pump, oil cooler kit, intake gasket set, and the fuel pressure regulator. $2,100 in work. Other than a cold air intake, it appears to be stock.
A local diesel mechanic shop did the work. I’m going to call them about the truck as well.
I had a friend with an ‘04 6.0 that grenaded itself. Plus I have read about the issues the motors have. I have shyed away from them for those reasons. What are the thoughts of this community that has more experience with Powerstroke diesels?
Last edited by USMC1302Colt; 02-12-2019 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Add pictures
#2
02-12-2019, 09:00 PM
Logistics Pro
Wow, clean truck. No doubt it will pull 11,600 if it was all trailer. I just worry about that weight on the bed - with tongue weight it's about 4300lbs. Shame Washington doesn't allow triple tows or I'd tell you to pull the UTV behind the trailer. I've pulled up to about 12000 on my F450's bumper hitch, and it's a load, but I have a heavy flatbed. You'd definitely be walking up those mountains.
Most of the major issues with that engine were fixed by '07. I'd just do the basic checks (EOT vs EWT, coolant pressure, etc), there's a nice write up in the tech folder.
Most of the major issues with that engine were fixed by '07. I'd just do the basic checks (EOT vs EWT, coolant pressure, etc), there's a nice write up in the tech folder.
#3
02-12-2019, 11:26 PM
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Gross combined weight ratio (GCWR) depends on engine and axle ratio. See the info on the link (especially page 17).
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...guideApr08.pdf
#4
02-13-2019, 09:25 AM
Lead Driver
Being a dually 6.0 it will have atleast 4.10 so you'll be below the total towing limit. The only number you may be close on is rear axle limit but you won't know until its all weighed.
That is a clean truck but the open element air cleaner is unnecessary and detrimental to turbo and engine life. Also the oil filter cap is an aftermarket high one that if used with a proper Motorcraft filter will cause the oil to bypass and be unfiltered. The cap and filter should be replaced along with the missing battery/PCM cover, & a factory air filter assembly.
Being an ex Municipal rig and labeled an XL it should be priced lower than 20k. I wouldn't pay more than 16k and really that's a reach. I think the truck would do what you want no problem. Theres just unknowns of what has been done already that you may have to deal with either ahead of time or when troubles arise such as replacement of the oil feed tubes, dummy plugs, & STC fitting.
That is a clean truck but the open element air cleaner is unnecessary and detrimental to turbo and engine life. Also the oil filter cap is an aftermarket high one that if used with a proper Motorcraft filter will cause the oil to bypass and be unfiltered. The cap and filter should be replaced along with the missing battery/PCM cover, & a factory air filter assembly.
Being an ex Municipal rig and labeled an XL it should be priced lower than 20k. I wouldn't pay more than 16k and really that's a reach. I think the truck would do what you want no problem. Theres just unknowns of what has been done already that you may have to deal with either ahead of time or when troubles arise such as replacement of the oil feed tubes, dummy plugs, & STC fitting.
#5
02-13-2019, 09:30 AM
Sounds like a nice truck, but I just can't believe how many 06 and 07 low mileage trucks are out there with the HPOP changed out. I just don't see the HPOP being that big of an issue on the 05 and up. I can't imagine the STC fitting on the HPOP discharge was re-installed, so it is pretty likely you have the upgraded one-piece fitting there. Find out for sure on the dummy plugs and standpipes that Pete mentioned above.
Get yourself a monitor and see what oil and coolant temperatures actually are before buying (as IHateCommieCars posted)!
Plan to change out the EGR cooler to one from BulletProofDiesel (or delete it). The OEM EGR cooler is a weak point.
If you are going to tow heavy with it, then I would have it taken to a dealership and checked for fuel pressure. You need over 45 psig at WOT conditions or injectors may suffer.
Find out what coolant is in it (looks to be the Ford Gold), if so, you need to flush and refill it w/ a good (CAT EC-1 rated ELC) coolant. The coolant level looks to be too high also.
+1 on changing out the air intake and the oil filter cap.
Get yourself a monitor and see what oil and coolant temperatures actually are before buying (as IHateCommieCars posted)!
Plan to change out the EGR cooler to one from BulletProofDiesel (or delete it). The OEM EGR cooler is a weak point.
If you are going to tow heavy with it, then I would have it taken to a dealership and checked for fuel pressure. You need over 45 psig at WOT conditions or injectors may suffer.
Find out what coolant is in it (looks to be the Ford Gold), if so, you need to flush and refill it w/ a good (CAT EC-1 rated ELC) coolant. The coolant level looks to be too high also.
+1 on changing out the air intake and the oil filter cap.
#6
02-13-2019, 10:09 AM
Sound like you have some good hobby. If you plan to change hobby into fixing 6.0, then go for it, uness you're lucky. :-)
ok, take what I said very lightly... I already hide in a bunker writing that.
Seriously, unless you are relatively lucky, the 6.0 is a 6.0 and various designs it has really would cause problems, unless addressed. With your tow, you would more likely to hit issues.
I would guess you have no problem doing what you do with a dually, if it's a good running vehicle. Check specs obviously.
But, if you just want to do it, I would guess even not meeting specs, it would have no problem, as long as the engine works good, check your tounge weight, if it's 500 lbs, then total is 3500 lbs, a piece of cake. You have 5000lbs on the sticker of that truck. Just make sure you add al up correctly. The weight dist hitch will balance the load back and front axels.
Absolute no problem, as long as the engine loves you, seriously.
Add weight distribution hitch, you may need more passengers or you will feel lonely with just two or three :-)
ok, take what I said very lightly... I already hide in a bunker writing that.
Seriously, unless you are relatively lucky, the 6.0 is a 6.0 and various designs it has really would cause problems, unless addressed. With your tow, you would more likely to hit issues.
I would guess you have no problem doing what you do with a dually, if it's a good running vehicle. Check specs obviously.
But, if you just want to do it, I would guess even not meeting specs, it would have no problem, as long as the engine works good, check your tounge weight, if it's 500 lbs, then total is 3500 lbs, a piece of cake. You have 5000lbs on the sticker of that truck. Just make sure you add al up correctly. The weight dist hitch will balance the load back and front axels.
Absolute no problem, as long as the engine loves you, seriously.
Add weight distribution hitch, you may need more passengers or you will feel lonely with just two or three :-)
#7
02-13-2019, 10:26 AM
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#8
02-13-2019, 12:23 PM
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#9
02-13-2019, 12:34 PM
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With such low annual mileage and the fact that the truck will sit for weeks at a time, I have trouble justifying the cost of a diesel. I also worry about the effect of sitting for so long without good driving on a diesel.
This engine needs heat cycles and the turbo needs working, or yes.........you could potentially have issues like vanes rusting and sticking.
#11
02-14-2019, 06:37 PM
Tuned
Do yourself a huge favor and don't buy that "sick point nothing". I'm a true Ford man and have owned diesels since the mid 80's including these POS. Constant headache is all they're good for especially if actually "working" them any. They sound good and have good power for the few thousand miles between breakdowns. Turbos, egr, hpop, ficm, ....on and on, it never ends. Bullitt proofed bs may or may not help some but will not fix this excuse for an engine. Ford should have had to buy them all back.
#12
02-14-2019, 07:02 PM
Logistics Pro
Do yourself a huge favor and don't buy that "sick point nothing". I'm a true Ford man and have owned diesels since the mid 80's including these POS. Constant headache is all they're good for especially if actually "working" them any. They sound good and have good power for the few thousand miles between breakdowns. Turbos, egr, hpop, ficm, ....on and on, it never ends. Bullitt proofed bs may or may not help some but will not fix this excuse for an engine. Ford should have had to buy them all back.
#13
02-14-2019, 07:16 PM
#14
02-14-2019, 07:19 PM
Lead Driver
#15
02-14-2019, 07:55 PM
Tuned
The only thing I forgot to say to the OP was thank god there's guys like yourself that might still buy these turds whenever he gets tired of working on it, lol.