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‘83 F250 diesel what to go through?

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Old 01-21-2019, 10:59 AM
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‘83 F250 diesel what to go through?

New to me ‘83 6.9 idi with C6 2wd.

Odometer reads 77k but likely rolled over once at least.

what all should I go through on this truck?

engine runs like a top though it gives me some fits starting (especially cold)

ive already;

done new motorcraft glow plugs
new filters (fuel, air)
changed oil to rotella T6 with the bigger 7.3 oil filter
and put coolant additive in.

But.

Im concerned about the timing on this thing. It doesn’t start immediately on hot starts it takes a few revolutions to fire up, and doesn’t black smoke on full throttle.

With the mileage it’s got on it I know new injectors are overdue, as well as a new Injection pump (it leaks between the pump and engine a bit anyways)

this is truck is a weekend project mostly so I won’t be hitting the high dollar things first, but I also don’t wanna blow it up driving it some.

as I understand it these old diesels are effectively bulletproof with the proper care so I hope to get a long life out of this one yet.

What are some tips, and some things I need to check on a truck of this age?

and a little extra power never hurt anyone if there’s some simple ways to free up some juice on these, but I don’t wanna go turbo or reinvent the wheel either.

Thanks dor the input
 
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:47 PM
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You do not want loads of black smoke at full throttle. You will definitely cook the engine, especially since it doesn't have a turbo on it. A little puff when you nail it, and a slight haze when you have it to the floor is all you want.

Check the glowplug controller. You have the old style, they like to stick and burn up the glowplugs. My truck has the newer style controller, but it has it's moments also. I am a proponent of a manual button for the glowplugs, I have a manual pushbutton on my truck. It works every time I start it. Some people have many different persons driving their truck and do not like the manual button though.

You have the early engine that was prone to the block cracking around the block heater. If yours is ok, I would not use the block heater on your truck (The 120v plug in). You can buy add-on heaters if you need to run one.

If it's running good, I would not mess with it. My truck has 145,000 on the old pump and injectors, and it runs too good to mess with it. If you do want to change the pump out, you will need to time it and that is a can of worms on these trucks. The equipment you need to time is is getting hard to find and expensive.
 
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Franklin2
You do not want loads of black smoke at full throttle. You will definitely cook the engine, especially since it doesn't have a turbo on it. A little puff when you nail it, and a slight haze when you have it to the floor is all you want.

Check the glowplug controller. You have the old style, they like to stick and burn up the glowplugs. My truck has the newer style controller, but it has it's moments also. I am a proponent of a manual button for the glowplugs, I have a manual pushbutton on my truck. It works every time I start it. Some people have many different persons driving their truck and do not like the manual button though.

You have the early engine that was prone to the block cracking around the block heater. If yours is ok, I would not use the block heater on your truck (The 120v plug in). You can buy add-on heaters if you need to run one.

If it's running good, I would not mess with it. My truck has 145,000 on the old pump and injectors, and it runs too good to mess with it. If you do want to change the pump out, you will need to time it and that is a can of worms on these trucks. The equipment you need to time is is getting hard to find and expensive.
the controller is doing its job as of right now, though I don’t know how long that’ll last... I had to replace the relay as well.

On the block heater, is it all of the early 6.9’s or just certain casting batches of the blocks? I’ve heard it told both ways, and this one was a Kansas City truck, so the owner used the block heater religiously in the winter, without a problem so I wonder if this ones just redundant, or lucky lol.

On retiming it, isn’t it just a matter of matching gears once you have the front cover off and cylinder #1 at top dead center?

how do I know to back off or add fuel? She doesn’t blow dark smoke at all wide open, not even a little. Makes me wonder if it’s running a little lean, or retarded or both?

Part of me wants to make this thing as close to new as possible, and part of me wants to leave it alone. It’s an ‘83 that hasn’t been touched hardly at all, and still runs good.

I Feel like I could actually make it worse trying to mess with it.
 
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Old 01-21-2019, 01:46 PM
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Clean the back of the injection pump where it meets the timing gear cover. There will be a mark that indicates base timing. There's no need to remove the injection pump to adjust the timing, you just have to loosen it and move it toward the passenger's (advance) or driver's (retard) fender. As was already mentioned, the equipment to time the injection pump is hard to come by and not cheap. FWIW, I advaned my pump a hair without using the spark adapter and timing light. It improved the idle of my engine a little but, I'm too chicken to go much more without the proper tools.

You can also adjust the fuel screw on the injection pump but before you do that you should install a pyrometer. I just installed an Autometer pyro and it works great.
 
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:25 PM
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Like the previous poster said, you can twist the pump to time it. And the bolts are hard to get to, and the hard lines try to fight you when you twist it. You time it like a gas engine, but of course there is no spark to trigger the light. They have two methods, luminosity method or the pulse method. With the luminosty method you have to pull a glow plug and a photo eye screws into the glowplug port, and it senses the flame when the cylinder fires, and that triggers the machine. The pulse method has a sensor that clamps around #1 injection metal line, and it senses when the injection pump pushes fuel through the line. This signal is sent to the machine, or they do have some setups that will trigger a timing light directly.
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Franklin2
Like the previous poster said, you can twist the pump to time it. And the bolts are hard to get to, and the hard lines try to fight you when you twist it. You time it like a gas engine, but of course there is no spark to trigger the light. They have two methods, luminosity method or the pulse method. With the luminosty method you have to pull a glow plug and a photo eye screws into the glowplug port, and it senses the flame when the cylinder fires, and that triggers the machine. The pulse method has a sensor that clamps around #1 injection metal line, and it senses when the injection pump pushes fuel through the line. This signal is sent to the machine, or they do have some setups that will trigger a timing light directly.
Is there anyway to know if your timing is out without these tools? I’m on a tight budget, and while I realize doing this job perfectly would be best for the engine, If I can get closer to right by ear or by feel than it is right now, that’s still better for it.

What type of sound am I listening for? I’ve read these engines get more rattely with the timing closer in time, rather than if it’s running a bit retarded?
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:30 AM
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You mentioned your truck has difficulty starting cold and hot. Make sure your glow plugs and the controller are in good condition. You might also consider putting the GPs on a manual switch like Franklin mentioned to eliminate the controller, especially if they aren't working properly now.

When the truck has trouble starting hot get a cup of tepid water and pour it on the injection pump. If the truck starts right up that is an indication that your injection pump is on the way out.

If the truck idles and drives well right now you should probably leave well enough alone and address what's broken before changing the timing. Especially if you don't want to invest $150+ for the tools.
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Olds64
You mentioned your truck has difficulty starting cold and hot. Make sure your glow plugs and the controller are in good condition. You might also consider putting the GPs on a manual switch like Franklin mentioned to eliminate the controller, especially if they aren't working properly now.

When the truck has trouble starting hot get a cup of tepid water and pour it on the injection pump. If the truck starts right up that is an indication that your injection pump is on the way out.

If the truck idles and drives well right now you should probably leave well enough alone and address what's broken before changing the timing. Especially if you don't want to invest $150+ for the tools.
originally this truck was gonna get a full restoration, and I wouldn’t have cared how much I spent on getting it right, but my ‘10 F150 just came down with a bad 5.4 so I’m about to dish out who knows how many $$$

but as it stands right now ol brown (the 83) is seeing daily driver duty until I get that mess fixed, so I’m trying to get her set as well as I can for right now
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:36 PM
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At 177 K miles the Injectors and the pump will be torched. Especially since we have all been using ULSD since 07 or so. ULSD has really shortened the life span of many mech injection pumps that relied on the lubricating properties of sulfur in the fuel to combat wear now with it gone injection pump life has been cut drastically a good rule of thumb for the IDI's on todays fuel is to replace the injectors and pump and every 100k miles or there abouts... Your pump will have advanced the timing as the injectors wear the pop pressures will have lowered advancing the timing. So you will need to retard the pump not advance it.
Try moving the pump about a dimes width towards the drivers side, mark the current location on the timing cover and pump, a cold chisel will make a nice line across both where they mate for reference don't get carried away you just want a light line straddling both, a felt marker can also work but they tend to wipe off alternatively you can use an acid pen/marker if you can find one.. The IDI's do get harder to start if they are too advanced all things being equal.
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:17 PM
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If it runs good now, don't touch it. If you are going to put a pump on it, then you will have to mess with it. Like was mentioned, put the new injectors and pump in all at once, one affects the other.

If you are having problems starting, we may be able to address that with more info. Once you are fully warmed up (been out on the road running it for 30 minutes) the glowplugs are really not needed to start. If you let it sit around and cool off for a couple of hours, then you will need them a little bit to get going again. Depends on how cold it is outside also.
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Franklin2
If it runs good now, don't touch it. If you are going to put a pump on it, then you will have to mess with it. Like was mentioned, put the new injectors and pump in all at once, one affects the other.

If you are having problems starting, we may be able to address that with more info. Once you are fully warmed up (been out on the road running it for 30 minutes) the glowplugs are really not needed to start. If you let it sit around and cool off for a couple of hours, then you will need them a little bit to get going again. Depends on how cold it is outside also.
if it’s just been running (going into a gas station to grab a soda then going back out) it takes a few revolutions of the starter to fire. I was under the impression these engines should basically start to fire immediately when they’re warm.

Cold starts arent too bad if it’s not below freezing, but below freezing it takes a good 3-4 runs at cranking it for 20 seconds to get her going.

I don’t think the cold advance is working either, cause the high cold idle solenoid isn’t actuating the plunger regardless of temperature. Wonder if that might be part of my problem?
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b
At 177 K miles the Injectors and the pump will be torched. Especially since we have all been using ULSD since 07 or so. ULSD has really shortened the life span of many mech injection pumps that relied on the lubricating properties of sulfur in the fuel to combat wear now with it gone injection pump life has been cut drastically a good rule of thumb for the IDI's on todays fuel is to replace the injectors and pump and every 100k miles or there abouts... Your pump will have advanced the timing as the injectors wear the pop pressures will have lowered advancing the timing. So you will need to retard the pump not advance it.
Try moving the pump about a dimes width towards the drivers side, mark the current location on the timing cover and pump, a cold chisel will make a nice line across both where they mate for reference don't get carried away you just want a light line straddling both, a felt marker can also work but they tend to wipe off alternatively you can use an acid pen/marker if you can find one.. The IDI's do get harder to start if they are too advanced all things being equal.
i wondered about the effects of ULSD in these older engines. I’ve heard running a good additive will help keep things lubricated. I’ve even heard of 2 stroke oil being used as well. I imagine these engines will run on basically anything flammable so I guess it shouldn’t really hurt much, but still seems a bit off.
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:29 PM
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I have never seen where the cold advance thing ever made any difference on my truck. It didn't work on mine either, the thermostatic switch is bad on mine. So I re-wired it with a manual switch also. I turned it on when starting cold, and then turned it off later after it warmed up. Never made much difference besides it idling a little faster when cold. I took the added wire and switch off and I never got a new switch and mine starts and works fine in cold weather.

When its really cold outside, how long is the controller glowing your plugs? After the first try and it doesn't start, how long does the controller glow the plugs the second time?
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Franklin2
I have never seen where the cold advance thing ever made any difference on my truck. It didn't work on mine either, the thermostatic switch is bad on mine. So I re-wired it with a manual switch also. I turned it on when starting cold, and then turned it off later after it warmed up. Never made much difference besides it idling a little faster when cold. I took the added wire and switch off and I never got a new switch and mine starts and works fine in cold weather.

When its really cold outside, how long is the controller glowing your plugs? After the first try and it doesn't start, how long does the controller glow the plugs the second time?
it glows for around 8-10 seconds at all temperatures, and then just cycles them on and off until the engine gets some heat in it.

It doesn’t restart the glow cycle after a failed start attempt it just continues to cycle on and off
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by USRanger379


i wondered about the effects of ULSD in these older engines. I’ve heard running a good additive will help keep things lubricated. I’ve even heard of 2 stroke oil being used as well. I imagine these engines will run on basically anything flammable so I guess it shouldn’t really hurt much, but still seems a bit off.
Ya there are lots of additives on the market to take the place of the lost sulfur in ULSD and yes 2 stoke oil will help, it is not as effective as a proper additive but it is better than nothing. One of the best additives on the market is from Stanadyne, the same people that made the injection pump on the IDI's.
Any one that gets #1 diesel (winter diesel) in the winter should use an additive at the very least in the winter in the IDI's. #1 ULSD Diesel has about zero lubricating properties, with the reduction of sulfur in ULSD and the reduction in paraffin and thinner viscosity compared to #2 diesel it really has no lubricating properties to speak of.

Backing the timing off is going to do nothing but good for your engine as you will with out a doubt be running advanced and it will improve fuel economy. If you are not sure about doing it yourself take it in and have it done this should be considered as a tune up and should be done every 40-50K miles just as back in the day you had a tune up done on your car once a year, this will help keep things running properly. Any shop that works on diesels should be able to do it. It should not cost any more than an hour's labour to have the timing adjusted on your truck at a shop. At this point you got nothing to lose and it will run better afterwards regardless.

I have the Ford rotunda kit for setting the timing on the IDI's and the BMW M21 As well the kit Kent Moore for the 6.2's and kits for various Mech injected Mercedes etc and you would be surprised how much the timing on mech injected diesels it will move over time as the injectors wear.

This is something most IDI owners over look but a timing check should be done at 25K miles 50K, 100K with injector replacement/rebuild/pop adjustment no later than 150K. The 150K should also include a flow check of the Injection pump to insure it still functioning correctly. That was the standard pre ULSD now with ULSD usually by 100K mech injection pumps (especially rotary's like the IDI pumps) usually show significant reductions in flow due to wear if no additives have been used in the fuel.. So the IP flow check should be done at 100K nowadays.
 


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