Help with 2005 6.0 Powerstroke purchase ***with pics!!
#1
10-16-2017, 06:20 PM
Help with 2005 6.0 Powerstroke purchase ***with pics!!
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the site, but I've been lurking for a couple months...researching the 6.0 Powerstroke engine. Seems the consensus is as long as you take care of her, she will take care of you. So I found one that I like, It's a 2005 XL with a Lariat package (leather, electric seats and some wood trim) and it has 78,500 miles and 2166 engine hours. Carfax shows one owner and it appears to have been serviced appropriately. They are asking $18, 795. I went to look at it today and it looks to be in good shape. A little fading on the front bumper plastic, a little clouding on the headlights and a few scratches here and there. Only one small ding. The inside is super clean. No rips or tears...all the electronics work, no red flags on appearance.
I specifically asked for them not to start it before I got there. I popped the hood and felt the hoses, they were cold. It looks to me like they cleaned the engine, at least surface cleaned...it looks pretty clean. I did see a little gunk around the base of the filter, see pic below. It has two fairly new Optima batteries. Hoses were cold, so I started her up. It took about 3-4 seconds to start up, enough that I fought the temptation to pump the gas pedal...like with the older cars. I've seen a lot about rough starting on the forum and wondered if this was the same. I turned it off and restarted it several times, each time it got less and less delay. It fires up everytime and the engine sounds strong. No smoke of any color coming from exhaust, no odors etc. Nothing else suspicious there. I took it for a bit of a drive...got it on the freeway and really got on it several times. No smoke, no hesitation, rattles etc. Feels strong. A little play in the steering wheel...enough that if I move it an inch or so in each direction, it doesn't really effect the direction of movement. The dealership replaced the brakes and rotors, and they felt very good. I got on the brakes a couple times with no issues. I drove it on city streets, noticed no issues. Reverse worked fine...driving it doesn't reveal any major issues.
When I got back, I pulled the transmission dipstick and the oil dipstick. Both seem fine, transmission fluid was pink and odorless. Oil looked fine. EGR valve looked new to me, but the engine was pretty clean. You can see it in pic above. I did notice a Ford service sticker indicating there was a reprogram of the "power train modules" on 7-15-06, which according to most of you...it is imperative to get the must updated uploads.
I crawled underneath (to my wife's dismay, lol) and saw evidence of leakage. It looks like it is leaking from the oil pan (maybe a gasket). More concerning to me is it looks like it has been leaking from the bell housing. I am by no means an expert...I typically perform my own service because 1) I have trust issues...if I don't see it done, I don't believe it's been done, right at least 2) I'm cheap and I know I can save money doing it myself. There's also pride in knowing I did it, can do it and can figure it out. Based on what I saw (pics posted below) and what I have learned on this site...leaks are common and can be red flags. I don't think this vehicle was abused, it did look to have formerly have a fifth wheel hitch in the truck bed. I just want to know what I'm getting into and a reasonable expectation of what I may be spending before I purchase it. I will do all the normal things you guys have recommended upon purchase (filter replacement, coolant and trans flush, clean the EGR valve or replace if needed and I'm looking at purchasing the Scangauge II to monitor the temps etc) If you guys can look at the pics and let me know what you think, I would appreciate it. Maybe I am overreacting because of the stigma of the 6.0 and all the information I have read...but I thought I would put it out to guys with more knowledge about the problems. Here are the pics:
Top of oil pan leaking?
Pretty damp on bell housing...
This wasn't excessively wet, but you can clearly see there is some kind of leak. It was a little more damp at the seal, I think you can see in pic
The color looked fine...looked to be clear or gold (hopefully gold) but my concern was the sludge in the bottom of the tank. Has the look of mold or silt?
That's what I have for now...based on what you guys think I'm looking at purchasing (or not) this week. If I purchase...I think we will become good friends
Thanks for your help, I look forward to hearing what you guys think. I'm off to take my son to baseball practice...but I will check back in tonight if you have any questions. Thanks again.
Matt
#2
10-17-2017, 08:22 AM
Howdy and Welcome to the light! LOL
Oil filter housing- They may have replaced the oil cooler and not replaced the seal or torqued things down right. Either that or it's some spillage.
Bell housing leak- This can be the IPR seal leaking, rear cover damaged from a blown out STC fitting, or the dipstick seal on in the oil pan.
Diff seal- You can replace this in your driveway, had to do it on my '05. Not too bad of a job.
Coolant reservoir- I'd see what the truck does under hard acceleration when hot. If it pukes some and leaves a residue around the reservoir you have your answer. They may have had to do head gaskets or maybe fix a ruptured oil cooler. As long as the repair was done correctly, you shouldn't have to worry.
If you own and Android phone, I'd download the torque pro app or get a scan gauge and monitor the oil cooler and ECT. Sometimes people will tell you they replaced the EGR and Oil cooler, but they didn't flush the system. This happened on my buddy's '07. Yeah, they replaced it, but they never flushed it, so guess who got to do it again?
The truck has some minor issues, but nothing to lose sleep over.
Oil filter housing- They may have replaced the oil cooler and not replaced the seal or torqued things down right. Either that or it's some spillage.
Bell housing leak- This can be the IPR seal leaking, rear cover damaged from a blown out STC fitting, or the dipstick seal on in the oil pan.
Diff seal- You can replace this in your driveway, had to do it on my '05. Not too bad of a job.
Coolant reservoir- I'd see what the truck does under hard acceleration when hot. If it pukes some and leaves a residue around the reservoir you have your answer. They may have had to do head gaskets or maybe fix a ruptured oil cooler. As long as the repair was done correctly, you shouldn't have to worry.
If you own and Android phone, I'd download the torque pro app or get a scan gauge and monitor the oil cooler and ECT. Sometimes people will tell you they replaced the EGR and Oil cooler, but they didn't flush the system. This happened on my buddy's '07. Yeah, they replaced it, but they never flushed it, so guess who got to do it again?
The truck has some minor issues, but nothing to lose sleep over.
#3
10-17-2017, 10:25 AM
The two items that would be expensive if they're the leakers would be a bet plate or rear main leak. Neither one is cheap if on your dime. As Toreador stated the only reliable way to to diagnose a 6.0 is with the gauges that he mentioned. ECT vrs. EOT temps when fully warmed up doing app. 60 mph. FICM voltage is another must see. Take your time. Better to lose a deal than end up with an albatross.
#4
10-17-2017, 10:47 AM
As said on here 100’s of times. DONT buy a 6.0 without having a full inspection at a shop that specializes in these engines! There are many things that cost huge money to fix if you find them after the fact. They can look perfect on the outside and cost you $5k in repairs a week later if you go by looks alone! Will be the best $200 you ever spend. Also if offered a warranty, read ALL the fine print to ensure you understand what IS NOT covered. Some policies are virtually worthless when something major happens.
NADA guide shows pricing is $13k full retail (assuming this is a 2wd crew cab- extended and reg. Cab are even less); $18k is way too high for an XL trim truck that someone has thrown a $1k leather skin kit on as you can buy a similar king ranch 4wd version with 120k miles for around the same price. Also having a low end model with 5th wheel hitch Raises the possibility that someone towed with it exclusivly and used another vehicle as a daily driver. Although unable to verify, how would you feel about the truck if you found out all of those 78k miles were done with a 15k lb 5th wheel in tow?
Personally, even if it checks out, I’d pass on it and keep looking until you find something more reasonably priced or they drop the price at least $5k.
NADA guide shows pricing is $13k full retail (assuming this is a 2wd crew cab- extended and reg. Cab are even less); $18k is way too high for an XL trim truck that someone has thrown a $1k leather skin kit on as you can buy a similar king ranch 4wd version with 120k miles for around the same price. Also having a low end model with 5th wheel hitch Raises the possibility that someone towed with it exclusivly and used another vehicle as a daily driver. Although unable to verify, how would you feel about the truck if you found out all of those 78k miles were done with a 15k lb 5th wheel in tow?
Personally, even if it checks out, I’d pass on it and keep looking until you find something more reasonably priced or they drop the price at least $5k.
#5
10-17-2017, 12:44 PM
Howdy and Welcome to the light! LOL
Oil filter housing- They may have replaced the oil cooler and not replaced the seal or torqued things down right. Either that or it's some spillage.
Bell housing leak- This can be the IPR seal leaking, rear cover damaged from a blown out STC fitting, or the dipstick seal on in the oil pan.
Diff seal- You can replace this in your driveway, had to do it on my '05. Not too bad of a job.
Coolant reservoir- I'd see what the truck does under hard acceleration when hot. If it pukes some and leaves a residue around the reservoir you have your answer. They may have had to do head gaskets or maybe fix a ruptured oil cooler. As long as the repair was done correctly, you shouldn't have to worry.
If you own and Android phone, I'd download the torque pro app or get a scan gauge and monitor the oil cooler and ECT. Sometimes people will tell you they replaced the EGR and Oil cooler, but they didn't flush the system. This happened on my buddy's '07. Yeah, they replaced it, but they never flushed it, so guess who got to do it again?
The truck has some minor issues, but nothing to lose sleep over.
Oil filter housing- They may have replaced the oil cooler and not replaced the seal or torqued things down right. Either that or it's some spillage.
Bell housing leak- This can be the IPR seal leaking, rear cover damaged from a blown out STC fitting, or the dipstick seal on in the oil pan.
Diff seal- You can replace this in your driveway, had to do it on my '05. Not too bad of a job.
Coolant reservoir- I'd see what the truck does under hard acceleration when hot. If it pukes some and leaves a residue around the reservoir you have your answer. They may have had to do head gaskets or maybe fix a ruptured oil cooler. As long as the repair was done correctly, you shouldn't have to worry.
If you own and Android phone, I'd download the torque pro app or get a scan gauge and monitor the oil cooler and ECT. Sometimes people will tell you they replaced the EGR and Oil cooler, but they didn't flush the system. This happened on my buddy's '07. Yeah, they replaced it, but they never flushed it, so guess who got to do it again?
The truck has some minor issues, but nothing to lose sleep over.
The truck comes with no warranty...but does come with a 5 day money back guarantee. There is a diesel shop not far from my house (Orange County Diesel)...I'm going to give them a call and see what they charge for an inspection. If I can get a good deal on it (and I'm not convinced I can, because AutoNation doesn't bargain...so far their idea of negotiation is about $500 off) maybe I'll immediately take it over there for an inspection. I want to get the Scanguage II as well...I'd like to get the pre-programmed one from Bullet Proof Diesel, but may not have the time.
I'll let you know what happens next...thanks again.
#6
10-17-2017, 12:51 PM
As said on here 100’s of times. DONT buy a 6.0 without having a full inspection at a shop that specializes in these engines! There are many things that cost huge money to fix if you find them after the fact. They can look perfect on the outside and cost you $5k in repairs a week later if you go by looks alone! Will be the best $200 you ever spend. Also if offered a warranty, read ALL the fine print to ensure you understand what IS NOT covered. Some policies are virtually worthless when something major happens.
NADA guide shows pricing is $13k full retail (assuming this is a 2wd crew cab- extended and reg. Cab are even less); $18k is way too high for an XL trim truck that someone has thrown a $1k leather skin kit on as you can buy a similar king ranch 4wd version with 120k miles for around the same price. Also having a low end model with 5th wheel hitch Raises the possibility that someone towed with it exclusivly and used another vehicle as a daily driver. Although unable to verify, how would you feel about the truck if you found out all of those 78k miles were done with a 15k lb 5th wheel in tow?
Personally, even if it checks out, I’d pass on it and keep looking until you find something more reasonably priced or they drop the price at least $5k.
NADA guide shows pricing is $13k full retail (assuming this is a 2wd crew cab- extended and reg. Cab are even less); $18k is way too high for an XL trim truck that someone has thrown a $1k leather skin kit on as you can buy a similar king ranch 4wd version with 120k miles for around the same price. Also having a low end model with 5th wheel hitch Raises the possibility that someone towed with it exclusivly and used another vehicle as a daily driver. Although unable to verify, how would you feel about the truck if you found out all of those 78k miles were done with a 15k lb 5th wheel in tow?
Personally, even if it checks out, I’d pass on it and keep looking until you find something more reasonably priced or they drop the price at least $5k.
#7
10-17-2017, 01:10 PM
Laughing Gas
The oil leaks could be as simple as the valve covers leaking down the back of the engine and spreading out on the bottom. Or could be from a cracked bed plate when the STC blew out. I agree with the suggestion to get a good extended warranty. Try to get a photo of one of the head bolts to see if it has been studded.
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#8
10-17-2017, 01:14 PM
I bought an all stock king ranch ccsb 4x4 with 75k two years ago. The rough start you experienced cold was similar to what I found. Stiction in ome or more injectors is a common cause from varnish buildup in the spool valves. When warm, the contribution values were all good indicating cleaning the stock injector would probably fix it. Added archoil the week I bought it and it went completely away and has been good to this day.
There are some low mile trucks still out there but getting harder and harder to find. Its good to remember that these engines, when the weak points have been addressed, will go 300k with ease. There was a 140k king ranch in washington a few weeks ago with $20k in engine mods that was asking $24. I almost thought to buy it and sell mine as that truck will go another 300k with zero repairs as they have all been done.
Also, if it actually a lariat, the deal is a little more reasonable but rwd makes it still considerably overpriced. Does it have white face gauges or all black? XLs and XLTs did not come with white gauges.
There are some low mile trucks still out there but getting harder and harder to find. Its good to remember that these engines, when the weak points have been addressed, will go 300k with ease. There was a 140k king ranch in washington a few weeks ago with $20k in engine mods that was asking $24. I almost thought to buy it and sell mine as that truck will go another 300k with zero repairs as they have all been done.
Also, if it actually a lariat, the deal is a little more reasonable but rwd makes it still considerably overpriced. Does it have white face gauges or all black? XLs and XLTs did not come with white gauges.
#9
10-17-2017, 01:20 PM
All the stains your targeting are not that uncommon as normal. Both of my 6.0 motors, both "Ford" built have had that during the mileage of this truck and no driveway oil drips.
The residue at the bottom of the reservoir is more of a concern, but it's not an OMG problem. The system probably needs a good cleaning and then you'll have to see if it needs $3500 in an oil cooler.
As others have noted, it's an XL, not an XLT, not a Lariat. Just an upgrade of seats in a commercial grade work truck. You need to think of that in dealership sales, and god forbid, insurance payout. You may pay 18K, the insurance company won't.
You can't buy a used vehicle, especially a diesel, without instrumentation to check it out. If you had a really, really good mechanic who you knew very well in his Powerstroke knowledge who could plug in instrumentation then OK. But way too many come to this board after a purchase with hidden serious issues and us telling them, you need a new motor or $6k worth of work. After they do an oil and filter change.
I often appear harsh with new posters, but everything you've pointed out to in the first posting is that the lipstick is smudged. Before you get married to this truck after the first date you need get a pregnancy test. It's all about the motor internals. And diesels are not cheap motors to repair.
The residue at the bottom of the reservoir is more of a concern, but it's not an OMG problem. The system probably needs a good cleaning and then you'll have to see if it needs $3500 in an oil cooler.
As others have noted, it's an XL, not an XLT, not a Lariat. Just an upgrade of seats in a commercial grade work truck. You need to think of that in dealership sales, and god forbid, insurance payout. You may pay 18K, the insurance company won't.
You can't buy a used vehicle, especially a diesel, without instrumentation to check it out. If you had a really, really good mechanic who you knew very well in his Powerstroke knowledge who could plug in instrumentation then OK. But way too many come to this board after a purchase with hidden serious issues and us telling them, you need a new motor or $6k worth of work. After they do an oil and filter change.
I often appear harsh with new posters, but everything you've pointed out to in the first posting is that the lipstick is smudged. Before you get married to this truck after the first date you need get a pregnancy test. It's all about the motor internals. And diesels are not cheap motors to repair.
#10
10-17-2017, 01:28 PM
I bought an all stock king ranch ccsb 4x4 with 75k two years ago. The rough start you experienced cold was similar to what I found. Stiction in ome or more injectors is a common cause from varnish buildup in the spool valves. When warm, the contribution values were all good indicating cleaning the stock injector would probably fix it. Added archoil the week I bought it and it went completely away and has been good to this day.
There are some low mile trucks still out there but getting harder and harder to find. Its good to remember that these engines, when the weak points have been addressed, will go 300k with ease. There was a 140k king ranch in washington a few weeks ago with $20k in engine mods that was asking $24. I almost thought to buy it and sell mine as that truck will go another 300k with zero repairs as they have all been done.
Also, if it actually a lariat, the deal is a little more reasonable but rwd makes it still considerably overpriced. Does it have white face gauges or all black? XLs and XLTs did not come with white gauges.
There are some low mile trucks still out there but getting harder and harder to find. Its good to remember that these engines, when the weak points have been addressed, will go 300k with ease. There was a 140k king ranch in washington a few weeks ago with $20k in engine mods that was asking $24. I almost thought to buy it and sell mine as that truck will go another 300k with zero repairs as they have all been done.
Also, if it actually a lariat, the deal is a little more reasonable but rwd makes it still considerably overpriced. Does it have white face gauges or all black? XLs and XLTs did not come with white gauges.
You can see a glimpse of them above...They actually just got back to me and offered me $17995 out the door, so including tax, license and registration. I'm waiting on the email to break down the costs...
#11
10-17-2017, 01:35 PM
All the stains your targeting are not that uncommon as normal. Both of my 6.0 motors, both "Ford" built have had that during the mileage of this truck and no driveway oil drips.
The residue at the bottom of the reservoir is more of a concern, but it's not an OMG problem. The system probably needs a good cleaning and then you'll have to see if it needs $3500 in an oil cooler.
As others have noted, it's an XL, not an XLT, not a Lariat. Just an upgrade of seats in a commercial grade work truck. You need to think of that in dealership sales, and god forbid, insurance payout. You may pay 18K, the insurance company won't.
You can't buy a used vehicle, especially a diesel, without instrumentation to check it out. If you had a really, really good mechanic who you knew very well in his Powerstroke knowledge who could plug in instrumentation then OK. But way too many come to this board after a purchase with hidden serious issues and us telling them, you need a new motor or $6k worth of work. After they do an oil and filter change.
I often appear harsh with new posters, but everything you've pointed out to in the first posting is that the lipstick is smudged. Before you get married to this truck after the first date you need get a pregnancy test. It's all about the motor internals. And diesels are not cheap motors to repair.
The residue at the bottom of the reservoir is more of a concern, but it's not an OMG problem. The system probably needs a good cleaning and then you'll have to see if it needs $3500 in an oil cooler.
As others have noted, it's an XL, not an XLT, not a Lariat. Just an upgrade of seats in a commercial grade work truck. You need to think of that in dealership sales, and god forbid, insurance payout. You may pay 18K, the insurance company won't.
You can't buy a used vehicle, especially a diesel, without instrumentation to check it out. If you had a really, really good mechanic who you knew very well in his Powerstroke knowledge who could plug in instrumentation then OK. But way too many come to this board after a purchase with hidden serious issues and us telling them, you need a new motor or $6k worth of work. After they do an oil and filter change.
I often appear harsh with new posters, but everything you've pointed out to in the first posting is that the lipstick is smudged. Before you get married to this truck after the first date you need get a pregnancy test. It's all about the motor internals. And diesels are not cheap motors to repair.
#12
10-17-2017, 01:36 PM
All the stains your targeting are not that uncommon as normal. Both of my 6.0 motors, both "Ford" built have had that during the mileage of this truck and no driveway oil drips.
The residue at the bottom of the reservoir is more of a concern, but it's not an OMG problem. The system probably needs a good cleaning and then you'll have to see if it needs $3500 in an oil cooler.
As others have noted, it's an XL, not an XLT, not a Lariat. Just an upgrade of seats in a commercial grade work truck. You need to think of that in dealership sales, and god forbid, insurance payout. You may pay 18K, the insurance company won't.
You can't buy a used vehicle, especially a diesel, without instrumentation to check it out. If you had a really, really good mechanic who you knew very well in his Powerstroke knowledge who could plug in instrumentation then OK. But way too many come to this board after a purchase with hidden serious issues and us telling them, you need a new motor or $6k worth of work. After they do an oil and filter change.
I often appear harsh with new posters, but everything you've pointed out to in the first posting is that the lipstick is smudged. Before you get married to this truck after the first date you need get a pregnancy test. It's all about the motor internals. And diesels are not cheap motors to repair.
The residue at the bottom of the reservoir is more of a concern, but it's not an OMG problem. The system probably needs a good cleaning and then you'll have to see if it needs $3500 in an oil cooler.
As others have noted, it's an XL, not an XLT, not a Lariat. Just an upgrade of seats in a commercial grade work truck. You need to think of that in dealership sales, and god forbid, insurance payout. You may pay 18K, the insurance company won't.
You can't buy a used vehicle, especially a diesel, without instrumentation to check it out. If you had a really, really good mechanic who you knew very well in his Powerstroke knowledge who could plug in instrumentation then OK. But way too many come to this board after a purchase with hidden serious issues and us telling them, you need a new motor or $6k worth of work. After they do an oil and filter change.
I often appear harsh with new posters, but everything you've pointed out to in the first posting is that the lipstick is smudged. Before you get married to this truck after the first date you need get a pregnancy test. It's all about the motor internals. And diesels are not cheap motors to repair.
#13
10-17-2017, 01:49 PM
#14
10-17-2017, 01:53 PM
I guess the sales guy was incorrect about the "out the door price". They lowered the asking price to $17,900 but with tax and license it is almost $20K. Here is the link below:
Used 2005 Ford F-250 For Sale | Costa Mesa CA | 5EC38791
Used 2005 Ford F-250 For Sale | Costa Mesa CA | 5EC38791
#15
10-17-2017, 03:17 PM
It's a Lariat and it is pretty loaded up too: power passenger seat, adjustable pedals, 6 disc changer (make sure it works), power rear slider, Trailer Brake Control. About the only thing I don't see is up fitter switches and sunroof? (not a fan of them myself)...
You just need to verify mechanical condition and as long as you are fine with 2wd, then get it as cheap as you can -- looks pretty nice from the picts...
Good luck with it!
Scott
On edit: btw it has Back up sensors are there but I don't recall if they were part of the safety and security pkg (keypad door lock, etc.). The seats are probably heated too... :-)
You just need to verify mechanical condition and as long as you are fine with 2wd, then get it as cheap as you can -- looks pretty nice from the picts...
Good luck with it!
Scott
On edit: btw it has Back up sensors are there but I don't recall if they were part of the safety and security pkg (keypad door lock, etc.). The seats are probably heated too... :-)