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Inches of Slack/Play in Steering Wheel When Parked/Off '99 E150
Hello all! New here but have a feeling I'll be back...
So title basically explains the issue with my recent purchase. My steering wheel is "loose", when parked, when driving, and when off, it rotates a couple inches before "hitting" resistance. It feels dangerous on the road.
I've recently gotten an alignment after replacing the Tie Rod Ends, the Center+Drag Link, and just today, the Steering Gear Box. And still have the issue.
Anyone have any ideas? Something in the Steering Wheel itself? I'm not really familiar with the anatomy of the Steering System above the Gear Box.
Some other issues possibly related:
I do not have a Sway/Stabilizer Bar in the front. Is this normal? Seems like it should be there...
My hood is also plastic. That's not right is it?
Is anyone else thinking unreported front end accident?
I really want to love this vehicle, but its getting harder with each fix... I'm planning on building it into a camper and will be happy to share the process in this forum if people are into it.
Reading thru.......you did replace the tie rod end, the drag link, and today the steering gear??? And you had a front end alignment done???
Were the ball joints check???
Does the steering wheel move up and down , as in a bad bearing(s) in the steering column?
Did you, or the alignment shop check the "intermittent steering shaft"???
It looks like this -
It has 2 non-replaceable U-joints, the whole shaft need to be replaced.
It's installed from the bottom of the steering column to the steering gear.
I've had to replace one on a '94 E350 before, and junk yard (P-N-P) is the past place to get one for under $10.
If a helper rocks the steering wheel from right to left, and you watch the shaft, you can see the "sloop" in the U-joints. That's how you test it.
Yes, I did all those replacements. I have checked the ball joints and they appear fine, no movement in the wheel when grabbing from 12 and 6 or 3 and 9. Steering wheel does not move up and down.
I have now taken a look at the shaft you posted and tightened down the bolt that connects to the steering gear and this solved a lot of the play that was in the wheel. Is there another joint like this that may be responsible for any further slack in the system?
The problem is much better now but it still doesn't feel quite right, I'm wondering if there is some other worn part between the gear and the wheel. Maybe this is related to the lack of sway bar?
Wandering at highway speeds can be a symptom of too high of tire inflation and/or too little caster, they work together. Ford ships the E series with a caster of about +3.5 degrees which is OK for city driving but on the highway you want to have about +5.5 degrees.
The specified range is about +4.0 +/- 2.75 (+1.25 to +6.75) https://books.google.ca/books?id=htQ...dering&f=false QUOTE:If too little caster exists, the car will wander and weave, thus necessitating
constant corrections in steering." END QUOTE.
I've had the sway bar removed from my van for 2 days, and I've driven it 200miles, and it feels the same as it did before the sway bar was removed.
I actually forgot about it until reading this thread.
Harvard:
Looking at my alignment printout (which was done at a crappy chain shop) I have 2.5 degrees of caster on the left and 4.5 on the right. Does this sound any alarms for you? I think I may have multiple issues going on. Yes at higher speed I do feel like I need to correct often. But I feel like my biggest issue is on residential roads or when coming out of a turn; the van wants to keep turning and I have to bring it back. Does that make sense?
Im50fast:
Thanks for the info. Any reason for removing it? I may try to pick one up at a junk yard regardless.
Harvard:
Looking at my alignment printout (which was done at a crappy chain shop) I have 2.5 degrees of caster on the left and 4.5 on the right. Does this sound any alarms for you? I think I may have multiple issues going on. Yes at higher speed I do feel like I need to correct often. But I feel like my biggest issue is on residential roads or when coming out of a turn; the van wants to keep turning and I have to bring it back. Does that make sense?
Im50fast:
Thanks for the info. Any reason for removing it? I may try to pick one up at a junk yard regardless.
Yes, you have caster issues IMO.
1. Cross Caster = RH Caster - LH Caster is specified to be -0.5 +/- 1.00 or a range from -1.50 to +0.50
Your Cross Caster is 4.5 - 2.5 = -2.00 Degrees. This will effect both your return to center AND highway speed stability ADVERSELY IMO.
2. For best results on the highway you want to have at least + 5 Degrees
For example:
LH at least +5.3 Degrees
RH at least +5.5 Degrees
Cross Caster 5.3 - 5.5 = -.20 Degrees to allow for road crown. IMO
After giving this some thought I am really suspicious as to how the reported casters are so far apart. Normally, I believe, the production line installs fixed caster/camber sleeves on the line using the same sleeves for all units. Then at the end of the line they PROBABLY "adjust the toe and it is good to go". If this were true, you should never see +4.5 and +2.5 on the same vehicle unless the vehicle has been in an accident OR someone has really screwed around with sleeves. Just saying.
Some camber and/or caster split is good for a car because of road crown. I don't know if a half degree is proper or two degrees though.
Regarding the sway bar removal- I had bought some Moog bushings and took them to the shop for replacement and they couldn't get them to fit. With the old worn units removed, it would have clinked and rattled with a lack of any bushings. So I told them to leave it out.
Definitely at least a bad alignment. The first time they gave the car back to me the steering wheel was 90 degrees off center and I had 1.8 Camber on the right...
I do suspect its been in an accident although the carfax was clean when I bought the van. Is a plastic hood normal?
After taking the van for a slow ride (<30mph) around the neighborhood the steering does feel "tight" such that I don't think its a sloppy joint anymore. Caster seems a likely culprit.
I'll have to get a proper alignment by someone who knows what there doing. No way I'm going back to Firestone.
I suppose I wont stress about the sway bar.
Thanks everyone. I'm heading out of town so I'll get that alignment in a week or so and will be sure to update.
Definitely at least a bad alignment. The first time they gave the car back to me the steering wheel was 90 degrees off center and I had 1.8 Camber on the right...
I do suspect its been in an accident although the carfax was clean when I bought the van. Is a plastic hood normal?
After taking the van for a slow ride (<30mph) around the neighborhood the steering does feel "tight" such that I don't think its a sloppy joint anymore. Caster seems a likely culprit.
I'll have to get a proper alignment by someone who knows what there doing. No way I'm going back to Firestone.
I suppose I wont stress about the sway bar.
Thanks everyone. I'm heading out of town so I'll get that alignment in a week or so and will be sure to update.
If you drive this unit on the highway you may find it always wants to go to the left and as such it does not wander. It is not until you have normal caster settings when it will wander IF there is not enough +caster. IMO.
I've had the sway bar removed from my van for 2 days, and I've driven it 200miles, and it feels the same as it did before the sway bar was removed.
I actually forgot about it until reading this thread.
So no, it's not your sway bar
Addco had an interesting fact sheet that explains some of the physics involved in steering and handling. I remember 2 of them that seemed counter intuitive. The rear sway bar effects the front axle's handling and the springs don't hold the car up, they push the wheels down.
Regarding the plastic hood. My '94 has a stock fiberglas hood, is that what you are seeing?
Addco had an interesting fact sheet that explains some of the physics involved in steering and handling. I remember 2 of them that seemed counter intuitive. The rear sway bar effects the front axle's handling and the springs don't hold the car up, they push the wheels down.
Maybe that is why Addco bars are junk.
Rear bars lessens the body roll just as a front bar does. Any adjustment to the suspension affects the whole chassis.
Rear bar is used (or not used) to adjust over/under steer.
Too big of a rear bar causes oversteer.
From another site:
1) Increasing just the front bar, the front tires see a larger percent of total weight transfer which increases front tire loading and reduces front tire grip slightly (and also the opposite effects on the rear tires)... BUT you also get a reduction in roll which reduces how positive your camber goes in hard cornering for a large increase in grip. The end result is a good increase in cornering grip with perhaps a very slightly higher bias towards understeer. Now, before a thousand people jump on that last statement, let me explain. I know that people are also putting on big front bars and saying "I got less understeer". I would contend that what their butt-dyno is telling them is not the whole truth. The real story is, the increased grip (from roll reduction) allowed them to go faster in places where they previously had understeer. So yes, perhaps they experience understeer less dramatically than before, but the bias has still shifted towards understeer more... it's just that the limits are now significantly higher so this bias is less apparent. I'd say that the front tires see a moderate gain in grip while the rear tires see a significant gain in grip.
2) Increasing just the rear bar, the rear tires will see a larger percent of the total weight transfer which increases rear tire loading (conversely taking load off the front tires) so you get a slight reduction in rear grip and a slight increase in front grip for a more oversteer-biased setup, but the decrease in lateral roll also increases total grip, just like above. The net change is more grip, more oversteer. I have heard a lot of people say "a rear bar increases oversteer by reducing rear traction". This is not exactly right. What it is doing is taking load off the front tires, thus increasing front traction where it is severely lacking, AND increasing load on the rear tires while also reducing roll. I would say that rear traction is increased marginally overall, while front traction is increased significantly.
3) Increasing both bars, you get double the reduction in roll and no real change in bias. This is the way to go, IMHO. You don't change the overall bias of the chassis, but you do vastly increase grip on both front and rear tires. I'd say that both front and rear tires see a significant increase in grip.
As far as holding up or pushing down. it's semantics
Pushing down holds the car up.
07-18-2017, 09:44 PM
