I have been dealing with an issue for quite a while on my 2011 F-350 Super Duty & the trailer brakes when towing.
I recently had a complete overhaul done on the brakes on my truck (pretty much everything replaced on all for tires). This, I believe, is because the trailer brakes don't seem to be working correctly & the truck is doing all of the work to stop the unit.
I do know that the brakes will apply on the trailer but there seems to be a delay & I'm not sure what to do about it.
At first I was not sure if the issue was the truck or the trailer. Prior to taking my trailer to the dealer (a 2011 Elkridge 37 Ultimate 5th Wheel RV) I adjusted the brakes on the trailer. This didn't seem to help. My next step was the RV dealer where they confirmed nothing was wrong with the trailer brakes, as other vehicles hooked up to it would work just fine. The trailer did have a leaky wheel seal which led to me replacing all four brakes (even though they were in excellent condition) on the trailer. After all of this I still did not have proper braking.
Essentially the brakes would work as I could manually apply the brakes on the integrated brake controller but there was a delay. If I was stopped, manually held the trailer brake controller and let off the foot pedal the unit would roll forward a few feet before coming to a stop.
I also, regardless of the setting, would never get the resistance from the trailer as you can normally feel if the brake controller setting is to high.
Recently I purchased a brand new 5th Wheel trailer (2017 Jayco North Point) and continue to have the same issues.
I believe with everything I have done so far I have eliminated the trailer as being the issue.
Short of installing an aftermarket brake controller, does anyone have any ideas of what the problem could be or how I could fix it? Has anyone else had the same or similar issue?

 

I would focus my attention on the seven pin connection between the truck and trailer. You have ruled everything else out and when you don't have stopping using your controller manually, that usually is the issue. The things focused on so far were not likely to cause the problem you were experiencing.

Steve

 

I do have braking, it is just delayed. All the lights, etc.. work on the trailer. So 7 pin seems to be fine, unless it is just the one pin that is not making connection but I don't think that is the case because the trailer will stop, it is just extremely delayed.
For instance, when I am hooked to the trailer I can have the truck brake applied (foot pedal), manually apply the trailer brake (sliding the controller), full power, and when I let off the foot pedal the truck & trailer will roll forward a few feet before coming to a stop.
The foot pedal & brake controller would both work through the same pin on the connector, correct?

 

Yes, they both work through the same pin. Your defining test should be with the manual slide as you should be able to stop the trailer and hold it and the truck in place with no problem. If you can't, something is wrong.

One of the things I don't like is the way the RV dealer tested your trailer. What you want to know is the amp draw of the trailer brakes, not whether it works with other trucks. When you do that, you are putting too many variables into play. With an amp meter connected, when you manually work the brakes, you should see about 12 amps immediately. That is how you know if you system is working.

If you unplug your truck and pull the break-away pin, can you move your camper?

Steve

 

The "problem" with the Ford IBC is that it produces are variable amount of output depending on the speed you are moving, and how quickly you are asking to stop. With the slider, I can lockup my wheels, but in normal braking, on my 2016, it is delayed, and if you have the brake output display up on your productivity screen you can see its output. If you brake as you should - i.e. plenty of distance, not hard braking, you can see the trailer brake output might show as 50% on the bar graph. No idea what that translates too as far as amperage. If you brake hard, you will see the bar graph go to 100%. I don't know which year it was added, but in my 2016 there is a new "braking force" setting of low, medium, and high. It defaults to low, I have changed it to high, and it seems better.

 

I agree with you on the way the dealer checked the brakes. That dealer is a part of the reason I now own a new camper (from a different dealer).
I will check the amps to see if it is 12 amp immediately (the immediate is where I think the problem is).
On my new trailer I have not checked the break away pin but on the old one I can confirm that it did work. The manual slide will hold the truck in place, just delayed in it stopping the unit.
I'll let you know what I find out on the amp test.
Thanks

 

That is why I always suggest initial troubleshooting using the manual slide as it bypassing any variable amperage issues, as you note in your post.

Steve

 

And that is good advice Steve. I think the OP's controller is working as designed is what I was trying to get at. I happen to like Ford's implementation, but my personal preference is that they need to amp it up a bit, as it "feels by the seat of the pants" that they are a little weak. Any I tend to agree with that. I think Ford has done that to alleviate the head-jerking motion of start/stop running.


I had my controller turned up to 10, with high intensity on my Cardinal with drum brakes because in a couple of low-speed "panic stops" at an intersection, I felt like I was going to get pushed through the intersection. In my case, I feel like the weight of my 5th contributes to that issue, so I converted to disc brakes, and things are much better, but would like to see a change.

 

If I had to guess I'd say djousma hit the nail on the head for what I am experiencing. I'd venture to guess that is exactly why Ford now has a "braking force" setting of low, medium, high.
Thanks both of you for your input. I will be doing some more troubleshooting on my side and see what I come up with.

 

I totally agree. Often what we get caught up in "the system is working the way it was designed to work, but that is not the way I want it to work". Not a lot that can be done about that.

Steve

 

The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe you have relay that isn't working quite like it should. I haven't had the "opportunity" to change a relay on my F-350, but on my Titan they are usually very inexpensive. Enough so, that throwing replacement relay parts at the problem, isn't going to cost much.

 

I've just converted our 5er to disc brakes and it sounds like you have the same situation that mine has - delay. I know that Ford 'built in' some delay with their IBC but on my truck, also an '11, it just seems too long. I may convert to a Prodigy (recommended by Hydrastar) to get the reaction I feel necessary, In my case, setting it up to, say an 8 will generate a big blue cloud of tire smoke along with l-o-o-o-n-g black skid marks on the road while a 6-6.5 is just OK. There are two settings - electric and electric over hydraulic on the IBC. I've set mine to the electric over hydraulic but will try the straight electric next time (mid August!!) we have it on a trip. Then if not right IMO, then it will be a Prodigy.

 

My 2005 acts the same way, and it's downright dangerous.

I can lock the brakes with the slider, but get only minimal braking in normal mode, even with the gain set to the maximum adjustment.

I did a search on this forum, and the entire internet, and found many threads on this complaint, and a lot of speculation (often dismissing the issue as operator error), but no definitive, factual analysis or closure.

 

In a situation with strong brakes using the slide, but not the pedal, the concern is the brake controller provided one understands a controller only provides braking when the truck is moving. (that is not the case with the OP here).

The test for this is really very simple if one has the correct equipment, which owners do not have, but RV dealers should have in their service department. For example, I have a tester that plugs into the seven pin on the truck connected to a read out by a 20-foot cord so I can sit with the driver while he goes down the road and can read the actual amp output to the box which emulates the trailer brakes (the box has magnets just like the trailer brakes). Since you already know your connections are good because you can use the manual slide to stop the camper, that would be your next step.

The greatest problem I see with the built-in controllers is RV techs don't take the time to learn them so they simply say they don't work on the truck. That is not the issue of course. The issue is simply being able to diagnose the problem. Ford techs know the truck, but not trailers so they plead the fifth also.

What has to happen and how to test what is happening is not difficult and requires only very basic knowledge of electricity, i.e. even I can do it.

Steve

 

There is a good write up on types of brake controllers here: Brake Controllers - Proportional or Timed Delayed?.

From what I see, Ford uses a time delay controller and, if I read the article correctly, it's less them optimal and quite possibly what Finn is seeing and what I think may happening with mine. While I haven't fully 'proven', what, if anything is wrong with mine, a proportional controller may work even better and quite possibly why Hydrastar recommends a Prodigy. In my case, the jury has just been handed the case.

As far as testing, it's probably pretty easy to make up a test rig with a 7 pin female socket, some wires and a decent digital DVM and maybe some sort of load - but that raises the question of once you get a batch of figures, what do they mean? How much braking force (amps) are you producing for a given road speed braking effect and at what foot force (immeasurable = guesstimate) on the brake pedal.

FWIW, in the 110 mile trip we just took, I'm not happy with the Ford controller at this time but with an entirely new brake system, that jury mentioned above will still need to 'vote'. That is unless I just say s@@@@ it and spent the $150 bucks to try a Prodigy with their change over pigtail.