Hey guys....sorry if this has been covered already, but I couldn't find much by doing a search. I just picked up a 1948 Ford F7, 337 flathead, 5 speed, 16' flatbed dump. It came from eastern WA, so the sheet metal is in very solid condition. I was able to grab it from a buddy for $500. I brought the gooseneck out to his farm behind my trusty Superduty dually 7.3 with 380k on the clock. What a load behind this tired old pickup! The license plate had it last tagged in 1978. According to my buddy, his father in law rebuilt the engine, drove it for a couple years, then parked it. It appears to be a worthy project. I would love to go through it mechanically, leave the old patina, and use it on my little 40 acre farm. I haven't tried to fire it yet, I pulled the plugs and dumped a bit of mystery oil down the cylinders. I'll let that cook for a couple weeks then turn it by hand. But, before I go spending any real money on the thing, I have to see if I can even get it to roll. It has 8.25-20 steers and 10.00-20 drives, all 6 are dry rotted and cracked, and completely flat. It unfortunately has the Firestone RH-5° widowmaker split rims on it. I've seen plenty of posts on finding replacements for the 5 lug widowmakers on the smaller F5 - F6 trucks, but nothing on the F7 - F8. They are some huge 8 lug pattern I've never seen on another rig before. I'm just looking for options on what I can use in place of these. Does anyone know another wheel? Another vehicle with the same pattern that has the safer lock ring style wheel? Or am I looking at an axle swap? I know Stockton Wheel welds your old centers into modern wheels, but with another baby on the way, I'm not real sure I can justify the steep price. Would it be completely irresponsible of me to buy tires, tubes and flaps, and mount them on these old wheels myself? Anyone done this that can give me some pointers? Never had one apart. I'm afraid of them (should make me more cautious mounting them), but have some nice heavy chains and a LONG hose with a locking chuck. I don't want to kill anyone, or myself, but this thing will mostly stay on the farm, with the occasional 45 mph trip to town. I don't plan on hauling crazy with it, mostly driving it for my own enjoyment. I'm just really bummed....didnt realize it would be such a problem to get tires on the thing. Can't afford much more than the 1500 just for the tires as it is. Can I take some 22.5 wheels and weld centers in myself? And please don't jump down my throat here...I am always one to ask BEFORE doing something like this. I know it's not ideal, but I have access to all the tools and am a great welder. I work at a large auto repair facility. Any one have some old wheel catalogs and can give me some part numbers for a better wheel that will work? Any one know if the 10.00 will work on the front as well as the back? Sorry for the long winded post and the crazy number of questions, I just like to do all my research, ask all my questions, then weigh all my options before I get too vested into a project. Would love to see the old beast come to life, but cant do ANYTHING with the tires in the shape they are. Thanks in advance guys!
- Steve

 

Are you sure they are the firestone widow makers? I don't think they should be.
However the best thing, is to get in touch with Chuck Mantiglia of Chuck's Trucks.

Chucks Trucks LLC., Ford Truck Parts and Restoration, Chuck's Trucks, Chucks Trucks

 

Nice looking truck. Can you take some close up pictures of the rims. I figure the experts can tell from what you have, but I'm always interested in learning.
Which brings up another question. Are Dayton rims hard to come by? Those work well, but they aren't mentioned much as a replacement for widowmakers.

If these are widowmakers and 8 lug, I wonder if there are more options for that bolt pattern.

 

Never saw "Big & Littles" on a big truck!!

 

What I would do being on a budget is try and find two rims from a F8 in my life I have
not seen widows on F8s = (F7's yes) or as you said cut and weld centers. Use those
on the rear out side. We all know rear inners and the fronts if they let go, they blow
into the springs. Good used take offs 10 - 20s should be available (they are here) for
cheap. I have changed too many to count but I dis- mount and mount put enough air
5-10lbs to keep it together, then put on the truck then inflate. PROBLEM is the out side
rears, for light farm use I air up rear inside tires and run the outside almost flat on one
F6 dump we have, cause it just hauls horse poop. Then in time you can find 22.5 Buds
junk yard dime a dozen and cut and weld. Then I have seen standard 10 lug rims on
these F8's no clue if aftermarket but I think it was Cuba or Brazil pics in the net.
Guess it can be done. just my thoughts sam

 

Harrier just gave me a flashback about Daytons. I plainly remember our home heating
oil truck was a 1952 F8 and it had Dayton spoke rims. Could even be these could have
been available in 1951. That would be a wicked junk yard find, then 22.5's slide right
on tubless of course.

 

The left front is absolutely a widow maker RH-5°, and I believe the visible wheels on the right side are as well. I have Budd catalogs showing there were 16 different 8 lug x 10" pattern 20" wheel versions offered in various widths and rim/ring designs, but the trucks that show up here seem to all have either the RH-5° two piece, R-5° three piece, or Dayton demountable style. No other truck manufacturer that I have record of used the 8 lug x 10" bolt pattern. The 16 Budd wheel offerings says there had to be some other industrial application.

There were also two tubeless 22.5" versions first offered in 1956. They are Budd 70420 (6.75" wide) and Budd 69640 (7.50" wide). My catalogs go silent on them in the early 1970s. Chuck has said which models, and through what year, they were available but I don't recall exactly what he said. I totally agree with the earlier statement that Chuck is the F-7/F-8 authority.

I would start with yard searchs to see what can be found. Of the 16 different tube type 20" versions made, only two have the RH-5° outer rim. Alaska is a big place, with yards spread far and wide, but the odd bolt pattern might help you do much of the search by telephone. A call to Chuck will also help you know whether Dayton style spoke wheel end components will bolt onto your stock spindles, or if a complete set of axles are the solution.

To my value system I'd do many things before I kept the stock wheels in service. If you are a good welder, your widow maker centers might fit snuggly to weld to the drop center or outer aspect of a Dayton rim. Easy enough to find an old Dayton rim to measure to get the inner rim diameter, then compare to the disc diameter of your widow makers. We know this works because it has been done many times by American Wheel Specialist and others building custom 22.5s.

Another method used by Stockton Wheel is to cut the centers out of your widow makers, then weld them to the faces of donor 22.5s. Jigging the cut out's center bore to the donor wheel ensures centering prior to welding. Once welded the donor centers can be machined out from behind. Below is a picture of one of these Stockton Wheel customs on a GM COE. A set of school bus take off 22.5" tires and you're good to go. Stu

 

As far as my book details, 1951 F-7/8 could in fact have daytons..

 

Here is my 52 with Daytons,

 

That's an old wife's tale. Farmers think you can carry more on the back if'n you have bigger tires (this is why axle housings bend and wheel bearings fail). The only real advantage is slightly more lateral stability and floatation footprint.

 

Here ya go, some more close up pics of the wheels and the truck. It's funny, I spend a lot of time reading on this forum but don't usually have much to add, just here for the learning. I learned years ago from reading some of Stu's post what the real RH-5° widowmaker was, even though at that time I didnt know I would ever own one. Lol. Thanks for that, Stu. I told my boss I was going to find some 22.5s and weld my centers to them, he chewed my *** for that, though honestly, I don't see how much I will be weakening the integrity of the wheels by just welding to the FACE of them, i wont be cutting into them at all. Thats why i asked you guys instead. Like i said, Stockton wheel is a bit out of my price range, so ill prob have to build them myself. It definitely wouldn't be a hack job, I'm a perfectionist, and very conscientious about other people's safety. Stu, my profile might still say I'm in Alaska, I'll have to figure out how to change that, lol. I moved to the Spokane WA area in late 2013. Nobody in my area that I could find has anything but the RH-5° wheels on their trucks, so ill I'll have to contact Chuck or build some. I would def be open to the Daytons if I could find a set, I actually love the look of them. Thanks for the tip on the used tires....they can be found on CL in my area, but the farmers around here snap them up before you even have a chance to call the guy, lol. Ill be keeping my eyes out, but will def be buying wheels first 😉. Amazing how many people step up on here to help a stranger figure out a prob. Thanks guys



For the ones that dont know. This where I'm pointing is where the two halves lock together.

 

If you are inclined toward welding centers to donor wheels, the reason to use your centers instead of flat plate like on that pictured Stockton set is the ball seat mounting of the lug nuts. GM trucks are hub piloted so straight lug holes work for them. There's no simple way on ours to replicate the ball seat profile. Stu

 

Oh, good to know! Thanks

 

As far as doing you're own welding, are you certified? I'm a pretty fair welder myself, but when it comes to where there could be big liability issues with insurance companies because of faulty or improper welds, I'll pass that buck to a certified welder.

 

No, I'm not certified, but do all the welding for the farmers out here, and have built a few trailers, so I FEEL qualified. Lol. I know what you're saying but I know I'm a better welder than some of these 18 year old kids with a certificate on the wall, lol. This truck is a farm rig, won't see the freeway, and very rarely will run into town at 45 mph on a quiet country road.if I was running it around as a daily driver I wouldn't consider it, id have someone else put their neck out and weld it for me. Thats why i asked here....would I be terribly irresponsible to do that? Because it's that or run the widowmakers, and I think welding them has GOT to be safer than those....