Notices
General NON-Automotive Conversation No Political, Sexual or Religious topics please.

It's our own bleeping fault

 
  #16  
Old 05-11-2019, 04:15 PM
Cruiseomatic's Avatar
Cruiseomatic
Cruiseomatic is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dark side of the sun.
Posts: 1,804
Cruiseomatic is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Cruiseomatic is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
In all this, did someone forget that, While supporting domestic manufactured goods is always a beneficial thing, It just can't always happen.
Its not always the peoples fault. We we're once "Customers". Now were called "Consumers". An American worker in any given field was paid what they're worth in the past. Purchasing a vehicle or home was not unreasonable or always required financing and could usually be bought paying cash. Not anymore. Corporate America has figured out that they can pay the absolute minimum for a person to live and people will still work for that because "They have a job." However, if thats the case and it usually is, How likely do you think that person will spend 2 hours of pay for something they need USA made or for the same thing only requiring 30 minutes pay for but made in China? They're going for the Chinese made product so they can still pay all their bills and survive.

Ball players and brain dead rappers "make" millions a year but our school instructors are getting their funding cut and some are even on food stamps?

A roach infested, mold ridden, high crime, 3rd floor apartment is almost $800 a month but a person might only make $2K that same month plus all their costs of living.

American product cost $50 to purchase. It only costs the manufacturer $15 and that covered all costs involved from start to on the shelf. Customer works 40 hours a week and only gets $10 an hour gross which is about typical for here. Same product China made costs $25. It should be obvious here. Its the American people being bullied into poverty and doing nothing more than keeping big business growing.

Lets also not forget, Where does all this "junk" go when it is thrown out? Not in China's landfills but in ours. Who's seen Wall-E? Were running straight for that. The name and movie plot is NOT a coincidence. Its an incredible and truthful subliminal message.

The only "Progress" were making is complete and irreversible self destruction of both society and environmental. And "Congress" is pushing for more of it. We're all doomed at this rate. Pay, Cost, Supply, and Demand are all into one and its incredibly skewed and seriously flawed. Modern society is not more intelligent by any measurement. In fact, We're more stupid than ever before despite the internet, books, etc... Technology is not a measure of our intelligence as a whole.

Trump is no longer holding his end of the deal. He did it when he first took office but has fallen back. Same as all the others. We, The American People, Need to make a stand as a whole and fight this together. Bring OUR country back. Together we stand, Divided we fall. Meaning, A "Revolution" if you will is never going to happen and we're all going down.

Don't get me started on the criminal justice system......

My soap box just broke apart....
 
  #17  
Old 05-11-2019, 05:07 PM
Tedster9's Avatar
Tedster9
Tedster9 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Posts: 15,282
Tedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputation
The larger issue is what's called global governance. So called national sovereignty must be done away with, in order to, "they" say, to achieve peace in the world, no more wars. That's the selling point.

What's interesting to see, many thought the internet would open places like China up to democracy and greater individual freedoms instead, the exact opposite happened - what we're seeing is the internet being used here in America to make democracies and free societies more like China and their "social credit" rating system of individuals. If you have the wrong opinions you will be banned from the public square, and ultimately, unable to make a living. Major banks and credit card processing will cut individuals or entire firms off if they hold the wrong opinions. As usual, we're promised one thing, e.g. "Free Trade", and we get a load of complete BS. We could go on all day on this. Complete abdication of our politicians responsibilities and oath of office. They are reduced to talking about transvestites and fine tuning the weather 100 years from now.
 
  #18  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:29 PM
GLR's Avatar
GLR
GLR is offline
Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY and VA
Posts: 37,560
GLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputation
The increase in the tariff will help. .....won't it?? Those that are getting an increase in minimum wage might be able to afford the new prices. Those of us on a fixed income.............we're screwed.
 
  #19  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:38 PM
Tedster9's Avatar
Tedster9
Tedster9 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Posts: 15,282
Tedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputation
It's impossible to borrow our way to national prosperity. The Chinese government buys our debt at interest and then Americans buy their stuff, putting thousands of factories out of business, millions of jobs go away. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how inexpensive something is, if you don't have a job.
 
  #20  
Old 05-12-2019, 08:16 PM
khadma's Avatar
khadma
khadma is offline
Carpenter Local 745
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: on da beach
Posts: 5,377
khadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant futurekhadma has a brilliant future
Is there a fine line? I TRY to buy USA made products first. I TRY to buy items NOT made in CHINA. I donʻt mind paying more for goods made in the US since they are usually made better.

Most of my coworkers buy DeWalt power tools and most the DeWalt tools are made in China. I prefer Makita since I can buy items that are actually made in Japan (higher quality). With that said, Makita is actually one of two tool companies that are not owned by a

parent company.

I will support a US company that pays their workers more money even if the cost of good are higher. To me it just seems to be the right thing to do.

As consumers we drive a large part of the economy, we love to save money when possible, but there is that fine line.

We have mom and pop hardware stores locally that I shop for two reasons. These stores offer added convenience and of course locally owned. Prices maybe higher, but I save money by saving time.

I know with some research before doing some of our purchases we can help our national economy.
 
  #21  
Old 05-12-2019, 09:32 PM
GLR's Avatar
GLR
GLR is offline
Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY and VA
Posts: 37,560
GLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputation
Many might not know about or recall but, in the 1950-60's many were concerned about buying products made in Japan. Instead of buying US goods.

I still don't understand our so-called intelligent leaders spending money we don't have. Then borrowing $$

In VA, the county where I am anticipated revenue but, didn't get it. Spent the money anyway. Now 3 million $$ in debt.
In NY, the DMV anticipated $64 million in revenue when they first started NY "Enhanced Driver's License" (similar to a passport). Spent the money and revenue was way, way lower than budgeted.
 
  #22  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:44 AM
BassFantasizer's Avatar
BassFantasizer
BassFantasizer is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,310
BassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputation
As the title says, "It's our own bleeping fault".

OSHA is partly to blame, too. We're mostly car guys here and appreciate the iconic chrome bumpers of the past, but if you've ever restored an old car you know that you can't buy a U.S. made chrome bumper. Except (possibly) in very small doses, it just can't be done in this country due to the OSHA rules on handling the caustic chemicals. So almost every significant piece of chrome comes from Taiwan, Vietnam, or South Korea and imported by parts specialists like Year-1. We protect our workers so well that an entire industries have gone overseas to where the rules are more lax.

So much of our manufacturing has gone overseas because our rules (laws) make it impossible to compete. We all want to see the consumers protected from faulty product and workers protected from unsafe conditions, but that costs money. Perhaps civil liabilities are a better solution than prohibition?
 
  #23  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:52 AM
tseekins's Avatar
tseekins
tseekins is online now
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maine, Virginia
Posts: 29,405
tseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputation
^^^^^^^^

Yeah buuuuut, the chrome bumpers that are used today are soft and junky for a reason, they perform better with the vehicles air bag sensors and such. Vehicle construction is no longer about minimizing vehicle damage but minimizing occupant injury.

It seems that this is an issue only for the people with old cars and trucks.
 
  #24  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:57 AM
BassFantasizer's Avatar
BassFantasizer
BassFantasizer is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,310
BassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputationBassFantasizer has a superb reputation
You're missed the point, Tim.

OSHA has regulated the industry (and many others) out of existence. We won't "endanger" our own workers but have no problem with China putting their people at risk to get us the products (or get them cheaper).
 
  #25  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:15 AM
GLR's Avatar
GLR
GLR is offline
Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY and VA
Posts: 37,560
GLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputation
Don't forget that EPA, OSHA, Feds basically drove the steel mills out of the US. They went to China where they don't pollute the air
 
  #26  
Old 05-13-2019, 09:30 AM
tseekins's Avatar
tseekins
tseekins is online now
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maine, Virginia
Posts: 29,405
tseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputationtseekins has a superb reputation
No sir I didn't. OSHA, EPA and other government regulatory agencies are like the Gestapo. However, they exist for a good reason and yes sir, some of their work has poor results or inconvenient consequences.

US steel mills were outdated and unsafe to work in. The owners didn't want to spend the money to update or replace, typical American business. And then we completely blame the unions and the regulatory agencies.
 
  #27  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:26 AM
GLR's Avatar
GLR
GLR is offline
Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY and VA
Posts: 37,560
GLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputationGLR has a superb reputation
corporate greed
 
  #28  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:02 PM
Tedster9's Avatar
Tedster9
Tedster9 is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Posts: 15,282
Tedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputationTedster9 has a superb reputation
I remember arguing with dear old Dad about this. "Free Trade" sounds good, but words mean things.

American businesses are hobbled by all sorts of regulations- OSHA, EPA, SSA, Workers Comp, and health care obligations, + taxes. Those costs are rolled into the price of the product or service.

Then the same government regulators allow foreign governments to sell their wares here in America, without any of those things. There's no minimum wage. No environmental regulations. No workers comp, no vacations, no paid holidays, no pensions, and little to no health care, no old age security, Meanwhile those countries don't allow American goods to be sold in their country without heavy tariffs (tax). There's absolutely no way any American company can be competitive with the deck stacked like that.

One thing we used to hear about was what's called a favorable balance of trade. Sometimes they'll talk about trade deficits, usually in a narrow sense with respect to certain specific sectors of the economy - agriculture, where we tend to do well, or maybe, big ticket items like jumbo jets. Overall though, we've been getting our *** smoked since the 1970s. The bottom lime is literally that, America has to make things people want to buy, and ultimately has to sell more than we buy, basically. Borrowing money, printing money out of thin air, borrowing money from foreigners to buy foreign goods, that is not a long term or even medium term strategy. Anybody tells you otherwise is smoking their socks.
 
  #29  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:34 AM
JWA's Avatar
JWA
JWA is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
Posts: 11,321
JWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputationJWA has a superb reputation
As this thread has evolved its fascinating each post simply reinforces and repeats the title: "Its our own bleeping fault".

As cynical and jaded as it sounds this imbalance and deficit spending the USA is dealing with won't get a bit better in the foreseeable future.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.