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T4/SXE vs. KC38R - Decision has been made...

 
  #1066  
Old 07-17-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan V View Post
I'd dispute the spooling (to any great degree) at the 800 rpm number. I'd guess any meaningful amount of boost starts to come on at ~1200rpm.
Yes sir, I understand your point and can agree with your opinion. That is why I stated...

Originally Posted by Sous
The turbo starts to really spin up at ~800-1000 RPM and by 1800 it is ready for action.
Also, boost starting or turbo spooling is very subjective, which is why I tried to indicate that by posting this...

Originally Posted by Sous
Also, one person's view on turbo spool could be different than another's. By 1500 RPM say getting into the interstate with the camper the boost gauge is ~15 psi and when I up shift and have to start building boost again in the next gear it us ~22-25 normally. I can leave it in 3rd or 4th and really wrong it out to 30+, but the load accelerates very smooth and linear that I don't see a need to do that.
Based on your numbers in your dispute/comment, I believe my quotes are dead on sync with your comment.

With the disclaimer that spool is subjective, I said boost starts/spooling starts at ~800-1000 and is ready to rock and roll by ~1800 RPM. You stated 1200 for any meaningful amount if boost. In my opinion we are on the same side of the discussion, you simply put a more of a pinpoint on the measurement than I did.

In addition, I was intentionally generalizing because we know each truck acts different, which I also mentioned above.

Originally Posted by Sous

Automatic trucks hold boost a lot better shifting through the gears, so our trucks will not be identical.
and

Originally Posted by Sous
Also, one person's view on turbo spool could be different than another's.


Dan V I welcome your comments and scrutinizing because I am wrong everyday, but I am also able to admit that I am wrong when I am and hopefully learn from it. Again though, I think we are the same page, just different paragraphs. Maybe I am wrong though...
 
  #1067  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:02 AM
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There's only one way to resolve this. Go drill that boss in the compressor housing and mount a speed sensor.
 
  #1068  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
Looks like good info to add to the first post in the "parts list" locked thread you created. Whatchu think?

Stewart
I think you might be right. When we return home and I can use a keyboard I will see what I can do. Thanks

Originally Posted by Ridedan2 View Post
I look forward to working with you to add the E99 specific parts list, I think that will be a great addition to the thread to help other E99 owners.

The folks on this site are extremely knowledgable and helpful. It is unbelievable the information you can find on this forum. I hope my contribution to the FTE forum will help others, just as others have helped me. I thank you for the opportunity to make my findings available to others.
Good news!

There is one inherent problem with "some" of the knowledge that is shared here. What is one person's fact could be another person's opinion. Take the comments from Dan V and I above. We have the same turbo, I have stock 140/0 injectors and he has 160/30 (I think...) injectors. My observations on turbo performance are different than his, despite that he is capable of putting more fuel to the system.

Not that either of us are wrong or right, we simply view the same measurement in different ways. I always try to give a somewhat broad measurement because I know full well there will come a day when someone doesn't see full spool (their take on full spool) when I said it happens on my setup. Truth be told, there are so many variables just on the mechanical side of things, then add the human element to it and the free advice is worth what someone paid for it...

Although, there are common agreed upon facts here as well. Like OEM sensors and electronics only...

We will be looking for your thoughts on the install and results. Then the E99 category if the parts list.
 
  #1069  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FordTruckNoob View Post
There's only one way to resolve this. Go drill that boss in the compressor housing and mount a speed sensor.
There is a better chance of you drilling a hole in the side of your Swamps Diesel engine or your BTS transmission than me drilling a hole in my turbo...

Even if there are speed sensor ports/blanks, no way I am that guy...

 
  #1070  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:39 AM
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The 160/30 probably react differntly under light boost conditions. For instance. Yesterday I thought I give the performance tune a little more of a try...based on your comments about your feeling about needing a Hot tune to get the 364.5 going. Oh, if you roll in to the go pedal, yeah baby, things come alive...but they always did. I glanced in the side mirror has a I asked for a small amount more speed (say, from 50mph to 55mph)...Now this is a light boost condition....OD engaged. I could see some puffing of black smoke, which would clear quickly if you asked for more throttle...which would cause the turbo to spin up.

Perhaps you don't get that with the stock nozzle?
 
  #1071  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:16 AM
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The only, and I mean only time I see a puff of black smoke is if the transmission is in too high a gear for the speed of the engine. Even then the puff is very small, but noticeable if looking in the mirror at the right time. It is hard to describe the puff I see, but I would describe it as a 35% tint or so in a 4' diameter circle. I can still see the road, trees or whatever through the smoke, but it is there.

By too high a gear I am saying in 3rd gear at 15 MPH where the RPM's are near 600 or so. If I apply fuel there will be a less than 1 second puff of black smoke and then it clears up as the engine nears 1000 RPM and beyond.

I know this only happens in too high a gear because I can duplicate the black smoke anytime I want. If the transmission is anywhere close to what gear it should be in for the vehicle and engine speed, I have no smoke at all. None, zero, not even a haze... I have not been able to produce the black smoke unloaded, only with the trailer attached and in the wrong gear. As I mentioned earlier though, I don't drive the truck unloaded any longer.

Luckily I have a spotter when towing in the chase car behind me. She informed me about the puff of smoke over the 2 way radio and we did some testing over about 1000 miles. She would tell me "smoke" over the radio and I would take note as to the situation. This way I didn't have to look in the mirror and could focus on the roar, but I would also be informed of when the puff of smoke would show up.

Starting in L or 1st gear will not produce the puff, only being in too high a gear for the conditions. If I put the transmission in 5th gear around 25-30 MPH I can produce the puff. So, same situation, different speeds. I hope that makes sense.

I started noticing the black smoke at low RPM in too high a gear after switching to the PHP 65HP Performance tune. Of course I only used 1023 light tune for a short while after not being happy with the fuel table. I have Street Shredder and Cummins Killer from 1023, but I got them when the applied fuel was much more steep instead of linear and removed them almost immediately.

I may try to reinstall the Street Shredder on my Hydra, but the PHP 65HP does very well across the board as long as I have the transmission in the right gear. When there is the puff of smoke, the transmission is in such a place that it never should be and a place that an automatic would not allow it to be.

So, severely lugging the engine in too high a gear ~600-700 RPM creates a puff of black smoke on a hot tune... noted and easy to correct, I just don't do it...
 
  #1072  
Old 07-17-2019, 07:18 PM
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When it comes to discussing where boost starts, it is very subjective. I've got two responses to this:

1) when in 4th od locked and I let the truck slow down to almost 40 where it would downshift, start applying throttle and see where boost starts. With my setup, that's about 1300rpm.
2) when the boost gauge acts like it is tied to the accelerator, I call this fully spooled. This boost level varies with the tune, gear, throttle % but you get the picture. this is when the boost is very responsive. In general, i'd say 2k and up with a decently fueled tune and 20psi and up.
 
  #1073  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan V View Post
The 160/30 probably react differntly under light boost conditions. For instance. Yesterday I thought I give the performance tune a little more of a try...based on your comments about your feeling about needing a Hot tune to get the 364.5 going. Oh, if you roll in to the go pedal, yeah baby, things come alive...but they always did. I glanced in the side mirror has a I asked for a small amount more speed (say, from 50mph to 55mph)...Now this is a light boost condition....OD engaged. I could see some puffing of black smoke, which would clear quickly if you asked for more throttle...which would cause the turbo to spin up.

Perhaps you don't get that with the stock nozzle?
Dan V is this with an SXE?
 
  #1074  
Old Yesterday, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JT250 View Post
Dan V is this with an SXE?
Indeed. SXE364.5 with .91 ex housing.
 
 
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