Thanks to Justin's suggestion of setting the timing to 4*, it's running really nice now. The turbo now boosts 2.0-2.5 psi while coasting 15-25mph, 4.0-4.5psi at highway speeds, and 6.0-11.0psi up gradual slopes. Also, it spools up nice now. I was using the accelerator a lot less.

I also turned the IP down a flat. Even with that, it still smokes black with moderate to full throttle, but I'll turn it down again later.

I did another unscientific test drive (1/3 city, 2/3 hwy). the results are still debatable, but they are much more promising. Conservatively, i'm getting 16.7mpg, and liberally, I'm getting 20mpg. If these numbers hold, this is better than anything I've ever had.

More testing wil be conducted on the weekend. Thanks to everyone for their help. I might even post a video of me adjusting the van timing, just so you truck guys can see what I have to deal with.

 

what does the engine sound like,timed at 4 degrees? can you barely tell she's a diesel? gunna sound like a big block 444 gas job idling?
very interesting.iv never heard of anyone run such retarded timing on an idi before.not purposely anyway lol.

 

I must be tone deaf cuz I could barely tell the difference between 12*, 8*, and 4*. Each one sounded different, but too much time elapsed between each timing, for me to discern the differences. Maybe I should have made a recording of each so that I could compare them after-the-fact.

If someone asked me to time their IDI by ear, I'd be lost. That skill is an art.

 

The Hypermax documentation suggests running their system 2* retarded from factory. That means 6*, with 4* being the lower bound. I might advance it a half-degree over the next few days and try see if there is a Hypermax sweet spot.

Funny thing is, I emailed Hypermax to see what they say. Their response was to time it at 10*, in complete contradiction to their own documentation. I didn't bother to tell them I had it at 12* and it was garbage, and 8* was not too great either.

I'll also turn down the fuel screw a flat and see how it performs. I'm still coal burning a lot when I stop the pedal. However, at highway speeds, it's about 70% less black when I pound it up a hill. One flat back might put me at the right spot to avoid wasting unburnt fuel.

 

i can't time 'em by ear either.im horrible at it.iv tried a few times.no luck either.
well 8 BDTC is spec.so if they say to retard timing 2 degree's,that would mean 6 BTDC.
i wouldn't think they would refer to the starting point at 6 BTDC (already at the -2 of spec) would you? seems as if they would go by 8 BTDC minus 2.otherwise why not think they meant you started at 10 BTDC for the base (already at + the 2 of spec) if you wanted to guess that they use 6 BTDC as their base? see what i mean?
i don't claim to know what h-max is trying to say here lol but my best guess would be,to retard 2 degree's from spec.meaning 8 - 2 = 6.
but this is just my guess.where's the document that shows timing instructions for their kit? is it online to download?
theres probably more involved with the timing of that particular aftermarket ip also,in that it may need help in compensating for practical street use,that we don't know about also.still.4 degree's sure seems drastic is all.
be sure to double check your timing each time you adjust the internal fuel screw.one things for sure,rolling coal kills mpgs.curing that first is the big thing.

 

By how much? Like how many degrees per flat?

 

I was going over all this with Genscripter in email, and while I do think 4* is low for a timing setting, the bottom line is set it wherever the vehicle runs optimal. The Hypermax turbo has a mismatched housing/wheel combination, and lends itself to running better when there is a bit of fuel to light the turbo on the back end of the event, which is why it runs better with the timing retarded. The IP itself has no bearing on the optimal timing position that the engine likes to run at, it simply injects a quantity of fuel at a certain throttle position and RPM. Also, turning the max fuel screw up or down has no bearing on timing location either, for two reasons... 1) The amount of fuel being used during the time you are checking timing doesn't change, and therefore the roller-to-roller position doesn't change, its nowhere near max extension anyway. 2)Even if roller to roller position did change, the peak or apex of the pulse is going to be in the same spot regardless of plunger travel, the event just starts earlier in ramping up.


Everything aside, I honestly think Genscripter's timing is spot on based on the numbers he is getting now, and I would say its more likely that the balancer is slightly off or may have slipped on the rubber at some point, that seems to make the most sense to me.


On another note, people think they can time these trucks "By Ear" and that its some sort of gift, but all the trucks Ive timed ran better at different spots, I would say its a much better "gift" to be able to time it by feel, because at the end of the day, the note of the engine doesn't mean a damn thing.

 

this is very interesting.though it's no where near as good as being there in person,it sure would be neat to hear the engine idling on video.

yeah i wonder.would be worthwhile to hit up Gary on obn to rent one of his meters to check it out.removing this from the equation.just purely for curiosity alone.i wouldn't be able to stand it.id have to know.then you would always know how your ferret box reads/offset.

 

How does his meter know where its at in relation to crank degree? Im not familiar with the unit he rents out.

 

I conducted a better MPG test today. This drive resulted in a calculation of 18.4MPG (+/-1.2). This coincides with my previous calculation almost exactly, but with a smaller margin of error.

Just for others who may want to know, I'm currently at 4.5* BTDC with the fuel screw down a flat. I get boost psi from 2.5-4.0 at flat hwy speeds. It burns moderate black smoke with lots of accelerator at 30+ MPH speeds, but at idle, it burns A LOT of black with even only moderate accelerator.

I'm going to turn the IP screw down another half flat and test drive it this weekend or later today. Once that calculation is completed, I'll try 5* BTDC and do the same calc.

More soon...

 

Is it possible that you have very low quality fuel at the moment? That could cause retarded timing to work better because advanced timing would cause bad knocking.

 

that's a great question and it made me look at his location.i would guess no because i was just reading that in California they have super grade A+ diesel fuel out there.with a minimum cetane number of 53!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
which means his engine should love a more advanced setting than mine up in Maine running on 40-42 slop lol.
(if all else was equal of course with our idi engine turbo setups.)

you probably just mean a more along the lines of a bad batch of fuel,but it was still good shine light on what he should normally be running,if the fuel is fresh and clean.

the timing meters read directly..........oh wait.they just read off the balancer with a mag pickup but if that's frigged up/off alignment then that still doesn't help anything anyway.

lol don't be afraid of going a whole (if not 2!) flats down.you can always go back up some if needed.you've got way too much fuel without an intercooler imho.them guys out in Cali see you rolling coal,they'll report ya.they're so strict out there with emissions because they need to be.over population and smog city.only way to keep you guys breathing.
no one wants to be out here cus it's almost as bad as living in Alaska lol.

 

I adjusted the IP timing to 3* and the fuel screw is down 1.5 flats. I ended up with about 16.8MPG but with a margin of error of 2MPG. This was entirely hwy miles, so I'd assuming this 16.8 is on the higher end. The performance was pretty terrible, with the boost never exceeding 3.0psi. Also coasting speed stayed under 2.0psi.

Sounds like 3* is below the performance hump that I received at 4-4.5*. I'll try 5*-5.5* tomorrow and see if I can confirm this. If 5.5* performs poorly, then I'll reset it to 4-4.5* where I received the best turbo performance and best MPG.

Also, here's a friday night treat. A video I made of me timing the van. Give your truck a hug and realize how lucky you got it.

 

oh man.that's for the birds! better you than me.
just think,modern 6.0h no and up diesel trucks are just about as bad being tucked up under the cowl so hard but what's worse is they don't even have a dog house!
great vid.she doesn't sound retarded at all,even at 3 degrees! this is very peculiar.

 

I know. I'm beginning to wonder if the guy who put on my IP might have messed something up.



As for more testing, I drove 250 miles today. I was testing the mpg and turbo performance at 5.5* and -1.5 flats.

For hwy mountainous roads in CA, I got 15.8mpg. That wasnt' too shabby for mountains and some had a good steep grade.
For flat hwy roads, I got 18.0mpg. That was also traveling with the flow of traffic in CA (something that was difficult to do pre-turbo) at 65-70mph. 18.0mpg at 70mph is really good, in my book.

Unfortunately, the 5.5* timing showed moderate turbo performance, with 1.8-3.0psi on flat highways and nothing over 5.5psi up decent hills. I plan to re-time the van tonight to 6.5* and do one last test tomorrow. My theory is that 4*-4.5* is the sweet spot for my turbo, and it performs the best and provides the best fuel economy. If 6.5* is worse than my 18mpg today, then I know 4.5* is the local maximum.