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-   -   2005 Expedition transmission = dead? (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/981595-2005-expedition-transmission-dead.html)

fakirone 08-09-2010 11:28 PM

2005 Expedition transmission = dead?
 
So my 2005 Eddie Bauer Expedition's transmission decided to crap out on me a couple days ago. It drives fine until I tries to shift into Over Drive and then it just goes into neutral. If I turn off the OD I can drive all day.
Checked it out, there are no codes and all the servos ect seem to be doing their job so the general consensus is that it an internal issue. I've called around and I've heard anywhere from about $1100 to $3000 to rebuild the transmission.
Does anyone have any idea what the actual cause of this problem might be? This seems like a lot of money for the damn OD.

85e150 08-10-2010 11:42 PM

Do you know what trans you have, --E4OD perhaps?

fakirone 08-10-2010 11:49 PM

Honestly, I have no idea. I hear there are two, but I guess I need to decode my VIN to find out which I have. I probably should have done that before posting.

85e150 08-10-2010 11:56 PM

Crawl under and look at the pan.

Ford Transmission Spotter's Guide .: Articles


Scroll all the way down for ID tips, numbers 8 & 9 iirc.

Big as a house = E4OD.

Mark Kovalsky 08-11-2010 03:47 AM

1998 was the last year for the E4OD. I doubt that a 2005 is going to have one. And 2004 was the last year for the 4R100, so that's not in there, either.

The VIN does not have any transmission info. There is a data tag in the driver's door jamb that has a code for what trans is in the truck.

jk080 08-11-2010 10:35 AM

It should have a 4R75W transmission.

As far as the problem goes, the overdrive servo pistons has a small e clip the holds the servo together, this clip is known to break and fall down into the valvebody and jam the valve for 4th gear. If you can find a shop that is willing to remove the valvebody and check this out you might be able to fix it without rebuilding it.

Just so you know sometimes when the clip brakes it can cause the overdrive band to burn, once the pan is off you should be able to tell by the smell of the fluid and of any black debris in the bottom of the pan. You may end up having to rebuild it anyways, I would say that you have a 50-50 chance.

fakirone 08-11-2010 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by jk080 (Post 9206889)
It should have a 4R75W transmission.

As far as the problem goes, the overdrive servo pistons has a small e clip the holds the servo together, this clip is known to break and fall down into the valvebody and jam the valve for 4th gear. If you can find a shop that is willing to remove the valvebody and check this out you might be able to fix it without rebuilding it.

Just so you know sometimes when the clip brakes it can cause the overdrive band to burn, once the pan is off you should be able to tell by the smell of the fluid and of any black debris in the bottom of the pan. You may end up having to rebuild it anyways, I would say that you have a 50-50 chance.

So you sound like you know what you're talking about. How about I bring it to you to look at?

85e150 08-11-2010 01:02 PM

Apparently, I know nothing, but I knew if I bumped your post you might get some results. Good luck with it, hopefully it is just that pin deal and you can get off cheap.

jk080 08-22-2010 09:17 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Just wanted to update this post.

Turns out he lives not far from our shop, he brought the truck in and we pulled the valve body and found the E clip for the overdrive band servo was broken and a small piece was stuck in the overdrive regulator valve. We have seen this a few time before and it seems to be with just the 4R75W trans, I done know why. Anyways he got off with a cheap fix in a couple of hours.

Here is a few pics

Attachment 26815

Attachment 26816

Attachment 26817

fakirone 08-22-2010 09:41 PM

You did a great job too.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your helping me out, you saved a crap load of money by knowing that it could be something so simple.

Thanks again man.

JD Old No. 7 12-06-2010 09:11 PM

Rest of the Story
 
Very good post about the retainer breaking. Sounds exactly like what is happening with my wifes F-150 now. So what is the story about replacing the broken snap ring? Does the Trans have to be disassembled to get a new one on?

fakirone 12-06-2010 09:32 PM


Originally Posted by JD Old No. 7 (Post 9651567)
Very good post about the retainer breaking. Sounds exactly like what is happening with my wifes F-150 now. So what is the story about replacing the broken snap ring? Does the Trans have to be disassembled to get a new one on?

The trans stayed in, he dropped the pan (and valve body?) only. It didn't take very long, I ate lunch can back and it was done. Saved me a crap load of money and made me a very happy man.

RAM7880 01-31-2011 10:50 AM

whats the part #
 
is there a part # for this clip and is it a dealer only part ? is pulling the valve body on this trans. difficult or the same as most other trans.

gistecknician 09-29-2011 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by RAM7880 (Post 9901785)
is there a part # for this clip and is it a dealer only part ? is pulling the valve body on this trans. difficult or the same as most other trans.

F2VY7384B, will set you back between $2.00 - $4.00. Your local dealer probably doesn't have it in stock, and will not order just one for you. They come in packs of 8 so your dealer may require you to purchase 8 because they don't want 7 non-stock items on the shelf. Order direct from your dealer or online at www.fordparts.com.

Flaco79 10-04-2011 09:58 AM

I am new to the forum and wanted to thank everyone for their exceptional knowledge and help. I am experiencing the OD problem and am very conviced it is the e-clip that is causing the problem. I just wanted to let you know that the part number referenced, F2VY7384B, is not the number for that e-clip. It is the number for the retaining clip for the servo piston assembly. It is a little over 2.5" and is not what you will need. Ford does not sell just the e-clip. You have to buy the whole servo piston assembly if you want to get it from them. Does anyone know the trade size for the e-clip in question? I know they are not that expensive but would like not to have to buy a slew of them to find the right one. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all of the help.

gistecknician 10-19-2011 06:46 PM


Originally Posted by RAM7880 (Post 9901785)
is there a part # for this clip and is it a dealer only part ? is pulling the valve body on this trans. difficult or the same as most other trans.

Bump :-X22

I am in need of the e-clip as well. Can anyone out there let us know what size the e-clip is please, this is such a common problem that this info would really be useful to future searchers.

jk080 10-21-2011 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by gistecknician (Post 10940170)
Bump :-X22

I am in need of the e-clip as well. Can anyone out there let us know what size the e-clip is please, this is such a common problem that this info would really be useful to future searchers.


I never have had to buy this e clip, I have always just found one laying around in the shop. Its a common clip in the transmission world, its used in many different applications.

So I found one and stuck it in my pocket to match up one day if I was out.

I had to go to Lowe's for something and I stopped by the hardware section and found the match for the e clip.

Here is a link to the clip at Lowe's, its a 3/8 standard e clip.

Shop The Hillman Group 2-Count 3/8" Black E-Clips at Lowes.com

Having no 4th gear is not from the e clip being broken and off the servo, no 4th is due to that fact that a piece of the clip has stuck the valve.

You have to remove the valvebody to get to clip to replace it on the servo but you also have to remove the separator plate off the valve body and get the piece of e clip out of the valve so it can move.

jco1385 12-11-2011 06:27 PM

My buddy has an 04 4.6l 4x4 FX4 and has these symptoms. I plan to do the work myself. It's pretty straight forward, I just have a few questions. What are all the parts I will need? As for what I know: the e-clip, 5-6 quarts of fluid (Merc V?) and new filter. Will I need the separator plate gasket? If so, what is that part number? I've done a j-mod on my 4r70w in my Thunderbird and I did need it. I just want to be thorough and have everything I need when we get it apart. Also, is there a picture or explanation of where the new e-clip is supposed to go? I'm not very well versed as to what is what when I'm looking at it.

Thanks.

lphilipp 12-17-2011 10:22 PM

Help! I'm lost...
 
I have the same problem with the transmission in my 2006 expedition and this is not the first time... about two years ago this same thing happened. I took it to the shop and it was $1200 for the fix. This time I decided to fix it myself. <O:p</O:p
<O:p></O:p>
When I took the valve body off the 2-3 accumulator was loose and fell out. I can't get it to stay when I put it back in. It's the kind with the cleat like things not the one with the snap ring. Should I clean all the fluid out of that area before I put it back? My e-clip is still in place - unfortunately.<O:p</O:p
<O:p></O:p>
Also, there was a smaller spring that was loose. I thought it went inside the larger spring but I do not see it in the replacement part pictures. Anyone know where it goes?<O:p</O:p
<O:p></O:p>
I'm not a real mechanic. I have changed my own oil and spark plugs but never played inside the transmission before. I bought the haynes manual but it shows a full rebuild and I was trying to get by without having to do that.<O:p</O:p
<O:p></O:p>

jk080 12-18-2011 10:27 PM

The rubber seals on the accumulator piston should keep the piston up in the case without any problem.

The metal retainer can fall out, you will just have to work with it to stay until you get the valve body back on. The retainer fits in the case with the raised center point facing the valve body. Look close at the separator plate where this retainer contacts the plate, sometimes it can crack the plate and this can lead to problems with the forward and direct clutch.

I don't know of another spring in this area, could there be a shift kit installed in this tranny? Some shift kits have extra springs and there are aftermarket accumulator pistons that are hard plastic with teflon rings on them, these pistons can fall out. The stock piston is metal but with molded rubber seals.

jco1385 12-19-2011 09:53 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Just to update my situation, and answer a few of my questions...

Yes, you will need gaskets. There are two, one above and below the separator plate. Also when we did this yesterday, we lost about 10qts of fluid.

The problem with this one was the snap ring holding one of the accumulators (not sure which - forward most, largest one). The small notched end had broken off and made its way into the valve body. We didn't see any broken e-clips. I didn't see any way to pull the snap ring off to replace it with the end being broke off, so we just left it how it was. Everything went back together, new filter and a lot of fluid and it's shifting out just fine now. Any idea why this broke?

The culprit:
Attachment 202477

Its original location (the broken snap ring):
Attachment 202478

Where we found it:
Attachment 202479

When we were bottling the old fluid to take to recycle, we found this filter at the bottom of the pan. I'm sure it needs to go back in, but how urgent is it? Do I need to put this back in today? Also, where exactly does it go? I didn't see where it came from.

Attachment 202480

jk080 12-19-2011 01:04 PM

I have seen various snap rings break in many different applications, when the servo is applied and released the snap ring is flexed just a little. Over time it can break, kind of like a paper clip if its bent back and forth a bunch of times it will break.

Sure the best thing to do is to replace it, but it will most likely work like it is for a long time.

The filter goes in the case under the valve body, it will work fine without it, the earlier models didn't even have one, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for sharing the pictures, you had the same problem but with a differnet snap ring, I don't see that one break much but it does happen.

Good job!

Mark Kovalsky 12-19-2011 03:58 PM

Throw out that little filter. It's purpose is to catch machining chips that didn't get cleaned up during manufacturing. Once the trans has a few miles on it that filter isn't needed any longer.

ArmedMech 01-23-2012 12:04 AM

Same Problem - What tools and parts should i need to do this at home?
 
Hey guys,

First off, i really appreciate the posts on this board. I believe i am having some of the same issues, and quite possibly have a broken e-clip in my valve body. I have a couple of options, and would like some advice as to what i might need to perform this sort of job at home. I am a decently well versed diesel fleet tech, but have never fiddled inside the inner working of an AT.

Specs:
2005
F-150 XLT Crewcab
5.4L Eng
4R75W Trans (I believe)
85k miles

Symptoms:
Not upshifting into 4th gear, goes into neutral while driving (R,1,2,3 still work fine)
Fluid is cherry red, doesnt smell burnt.


Option A:
Let Dealer Replace Transmission with Factory Refurb
Part# SL3Z7000DRM
Price: 2301.28 --> (plus labor(8hrs)) --> Actual Price = 3,300.00
(if done by dealer, would include a 3 yr warranty)

Option B:
Let dealer extract e-clip
Projected Parts list
1L3Z-7C155-AA GASKET 4.76
F75Z-7H188-AA PISTON AND ROD 60.77
F2TZ-7F196-A BAND ASY - OVE 44.97
MTK-53900-C KIT - GASKET 118.48
3L3Z-7A100-AA CONTROL ASSY - SPORD 504.14
Price: 799.83 --> (plus labor(15hrs)) --> Actual Price = 2525.00
(would include 1 yr Warranty)

Option C:
Pull the pan, valvebody and extract e-clip (hopefully this is the problem) myself, (not planning on pulling the trans unless necessary)

Parts list??? (i need help with this)
Part# ???? Trans Pan gasket
Part# ???? E-clip
Other Parts????

Special tools??? (i have a decently well stocked box, but no special tools for any auto-trans repair, nor do i know what they are)

Price: ???? (cheaper by a lot, i'm assuming)


My Requests of this Board:

1. Can somone can tell me whether or not i need to pull the tranny completely to perform this operation?

2. Can someone provide me a list of required parts, or tell me if i need all of the items on the dealer repair list (i feel as though they are planning to replace items in the tranny that may not be bad at all)?

3. Since i am fairly inexperienced, can someone could just write down a couple of step-by-step processes for valvebody removal and installation, and whatever else is necessary to be able to get the e-clip and install the new one?

4. Lastly, are there any special tools i need to perform this sort of operation?


Finally, thanks in advance, i think that there is enough information on this board for me to do it on my own, i am just trying to cover all my bases since this is the first time i've tinkered with the innerworkings of an automatic transmission.

Thank you for your time,

ArmedMech

jco1385 01-23-2012 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by ArmedMech (Post 11324598)

My Requests of this Board:

1. Can someone can tell me whether or not i need to pull the tranny completely to perform this operation?

No, only drop the pan and pull the valve body.

2. Can someone provide me a list of required parts, or tell me if i need all of the items on the dealer repair list (i feel as though they are planning to replace items in the tranny that may not be bad at all)?

If your problem is the same as mine (and others in this thread) then you will not need all of those parts. You will need the e-clip itself (3/8" Standard E-Clip). Also you will need the separator plate gaskets. There are 2. I just called the dealer and gave them the VIN and told them I needed those gaskets. I got both for <$5. The pan gasket is reusable. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and change the filter while you are in there. And of course you will need to replace the fluid lost (Merc V).

3. Since i am fairly inexperienced, can someone could just write down a couple of step-by-step processes for valvebody removal and installation, and whatever else is necessary to be able to get the e-clip and install the new one?

I found these instructions online. They seem to be pretty accurate.
If I remember correctly, the pan bolts are 10mm, and the valve body bolts are 8mm.

Page 1 (the 'molded lead frame' is the black plastic piece for the electrical connectors)
Page 2
Page 3

Here is a diagram of the valve body bolts. I made a cardboard template for these so that each bolt would go back in the same hole. There were a couple that were longer. This is also the torque sequence for the valve body bolts.

After you have the valve body off, you will need to pull the separator plate off. It will be the plate that is on the 'top' of the valve body (has 2 discs on top). Inside, there are I think 5 balls and 2 small filters. You want to make sure these go back where they came from. I made a template for those also. If you drain the fluid and orient the valve body as shown in my post above you should see a piece of metal in the slot I have circled. Remove that and you are ready to reassemble with the new gaskets.


With the valve body off, look up at the transmission. You will see either a broken e-clip or as I had, a broken snap ring. You will need to replace the e-clip if broken, but I decided to leave the broken snap ring in place.

Once the e-clip/snap ring is replaced, and the valve body reassembled you can put everything back together. Be sure that you don't forget the gasket that goes on above the separator plate. Install the valve body, filter and pan. Refill with Merc V fluid until full.

4. Lastly, are there any special tools i need to perform this sort of operation?

There shouldn't be and special tools. Just a ratchet, 10mm and 8mm sockets, rags and a catch pan for the fluid.

Finally, thanks in advance, i think that there is enough information on this board for me to do it on my own, i am just trying to cover all my bases since this is the first time i've tinkered with the innerworkings of an automatic transmission.

Thank you for your time,

ArmedMech

Answers above in red. I think I covered everything, but if I didn't I'm sure someone will straighten me out. It sounds intimidating, but there's really not much to it. Pay attention to where everything went, and how it came apart and make sure it goes back the same. You do that and this is an easy project.

ArmedMech 01-23-2012 11:41 AM

Jco 1385,

Thanks for answering all my questions, I really appreciate the help, and should be getting down on this this sat evening.

I will try to take some photos for the board, and follow up.

Lastly, can someone tell me what the torque spec should be for those valvebody bolts?

I have a 10-100 ft/lbs torque wrench, but can get an in/lbs if necessary.

Also, would using locktight be recommended as well?

Thanks, things are looking prospectively better than the other options I had at hand.

jco1385 01-23-2012 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by ArmedMech (Post 11326142)
Jco 1385,

Thanks for answering all my questions, I really appreciate the help, and should be getting down on this this sat evening.

I will try to take some photos for the board, and follow up.

Lastly, can someone tell me what the torque spec should be for those valvebody bolts?

I have a 10-100 ft/lbs torque wrench, but can get an in/lbs if necessary.

Also, would using locktight be recommended as well?

Thanks, things are looking prospectively better than the other options I had at hand.

The torque sequence link shows them at 89 lb-in. I wouldn't use locktite. Also, you can buy that e-clip at Lowe's. There is a link above somewhere in this thread.

Dwhitley167 01-24-2012 08:31 PM

there is an awsome vid on youtube on how to remove the valve body and he's got torque specs too. vbinstall.avi - YouTube I was missing that same piece of that snap ring. I was taking a shot and pulling the valve body off to check the overdrive servo spring. I just figured that piece of the snap ring was in the bottom of my drip pan and i didn't pull the plate off the top of the valve body to look in it. So ill be pulling it back off to check it.

Dwhitley167 01-27-2012 09:10 PM

yup, exact same piece of snap ring was in the exact place in the valve body. Thanks to this thread i found my prob.

confused18 11-02-2012 06:09 PM

I'm having a problem with a 06 fx4 5.4 litre I just bought. When i test drove it it ran great but today I noticed it seemed to be shifting funny from 2-3 and 3-4 on light acceleration, like it was going into neutral. Well since the person I purchased it from said it had a transmission warranty on it I took it to the local dealer just to find out this has been an on going problem to the extent that its had 3 new transmissions installed,they even removed the trans. from my truck and installed it into another truck where it performed perfectly,all the pressures checked out with no codes. They suggest trying a new PCM, so I'm trying to do some research before I spend another grand on it. I should also add that when you turn off the OD it shifts out fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

sjfshaun 11-13-2012 03:13 PM

Confused,

I assume that this is a dead thread, because the last post before yours was months ago. That being said, I am having the exact same problem with my 2005 Expedition with 120,000 miles. I bought the truck used. The previous owner had the transmission replaced, and for the first 20,000 miles after I got the truck it worked great. Then the 2-3 and 3-4 gear slippage started.

I am also having an issue while reversing. In reverse the truck wants to die (and sometimes does die). I thought this could possibly be related because it feels like a vacuum issue and I am under the impression that transmissions use vacuum levels to determine when to shift???

I am also having an issue with my starter, the teeth have significantly worn down on the engine side of the flywheel. I know that doesn't seem to be related, but here is a thread about a transmission problem where the flywheel moved in and out about 1/4 inch. It turned out that the thrust bearing had worn out.

Ford Expedition Transmission Problems - Car Forums - Edmunds

Any information that you could share as to the resolution to your problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark Kovalsky 11-13-2012 03:19 PM

Transmissions haven't used vacuum in a couple of decades.

The first thing to check is fluid level. Low fluid can do this.

sjfshaun 11-13-2012 04:47 PM

Mark,

Thank you for your reply. And thanks for setting me straight on the vacuum. I have been living under a rock for a while, I guess.

I have checked the fluid and the level is where it should be, both cold and hot. Also the fluid looks pretty good, in my opinion, still pretty red not too dirty

Thanks.

Mark Kovalsky 11-13-2012 07:42 PM

The next step would be to get a pressure gauge and see what line pressure in reverse.

sjfshaun 11-18-2012 02:37 PM

Thanks Mark,

Does this problem sound like it could be from the snap ring or e clip breaking and jamming valves like others on this thread have experienced, or does the slipping between gears sound like something different?

Mark Kovalsky 11-18-2012 03:43 PM

I've never heard of a snap ring or e clip jamming valves.

KingDruid 06-07-2013 11:13 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Can someone tell me where the broken clip actually goes? I plan on taking it apart this weekend if I can get the gaskets in time. Does it go where I put the blue circle in the picture below?

Attachment 200556

jk080 06-07-2013 12:08 PM

The broken clip or snap ring is on the overdrive servo, sometimes the broken pieces will fall down into the valve body at the red circle location and prevent the valve from moving.

Nothing is installed into the valve body, but you do want to remove any debris from the valve body.

jco1385 06-07-2013 12:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by KingDruid (Post 13232348)
Can someone tell me where the broken clip actually goes? I plan on taking it apart this weekend if I can get the gaskets in time. Does it go where I put the blue circle in the picture below?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...fDSCF01381.jpg

The red circle is where the piece ends up. You remove the broken piece from the area circled in red and discard it. Then replace the broken clip and re-assemble. The picture above that one shows where it came from. Either the outer snap ring, or the E-clip in the center. Mine was the outer snap ring. See pic below:


Attachment 200555

96_F250_Deezal 06-07-2013 01:09 PM

Read all about it ....

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ion-j-mod.html


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