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A 56 YR. OLD MYSTERY from 1954 !!!?
O.K., looking for the historians on this one.
I am told that in 1954 and 55 Ford used engine stamp numbers for title and didnt start useing frame stamps until 1956...do the original engines and frames from 54,55 match the vin tag numbers inside the glove box door? Reason for question... I have found that the first two digits on my title are a "V" and a "l" (lower case L)..on my vin tag in the dash the first two are a "F" and "1", which I believe to be correct. In my state the lower case is not used due to confusion with the numeric 1...dont know what states did 56 yrs. ago. what has been done. I have traced bad title info back thru South Carolina to 2004 and then back thru Virginia until 1991. 1991 is when the truck was transferred from the original owner in the the original titling state of Kansas. Kansas also shows the first two digits incorrect and I am having a microfilm research done due to the age of the information. QUESTION.....is it possible that if the engine stamp numbers were used in 1954 for first title that these numbers actually began with a "Vl" ? I cant find the engine stamping...so where would these be located on the block...under the heads, etc...? ANY historical info would be appreciated !!! the truck is a 1954 f100, purchased in louisburg Va. in 1954.............Thanks |
I have a 54, 2-55's and 2-56's. in all cases the title work matches the chassis stamping, which matches the vehicle tag (glovebox for the 54 & 55's), and door post for the 56's.
all start with 'F10' I have never seen a matching number on the engine. Sam |
A weak mind and memory thinks that is a GM thing?
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Originally Posted by Old F1
(Post 9200426)
A weak mind and memory thinks that is a GM thing?
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first 3 characters are truck type, a letter and 2 numbers ie: F10 = F100, F25 = F250 etc. next character is a letter denoting the motor ie: D = 223 6 popper. next character is number denoting year ie: 3 = 53, 4 = 54, etc., next character is a letter denoting where the truck was made. the 5? digits after that are the serial or sequence number unique to that truck.
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What DumbLuck wrote would correspond to the vin number for my 54 F250 which is a Kansas truck.
In Kansas, on a vehicle that is older than 50 years one can apply for a title with only a bill of sale if the original title was lost or the vehicle went through a couple of owners without a title. i.e a farmer has an old vehicle that has been sitting in the trees on the farm for 25 years and no one knows who owned it or the original owners are long gone. I buy the vehicle to restore, but there is no easy way to find or replace a long lost title. I can apply for a title with a bill of sale. I think they check the records to determine the vehicle wasn't reported stolen and if there is no current title of record they will issue a title. There is a chance that the new title may not be in the vin sequence of the vehicle, but I don't know for sure. |
Some GM cars back into the early 50's were as they called numbers matching, at least in the bigger cars. My 51 Pontiac station wagon has the serial number stamped on a pad on the front of the engine to match the body serial number. I recently sold a 49 olds. convertible that has the same type id system, serial of body hand stamped on the engine pad.
Both these cars were titled off the body number. The body number was a embossed type number and the engine obviously hand stamped. As the engine was assigned to go into a body a employee stamped the body number into the engine. The earlier ford cars had the assigned serial number hand stamped onto the top of the transmission case when manufactured and assembled to the motor. The motor and trans combo was then shipped to the assembly line. The motor and trans was them put into a car. At that time a worker stamped the number off the trans onto the frame rail. The frame number and trans would match. I would suspect that practice would have been the same for the earlier trucks as well. I am not sure when that practice stopped. My 46 mercury has a matching number frame stamp and transmission stamp. The serial number shows a fairly early production number, however the glass "bugs" show all the glass was made 3 months latter year of production. From what I have learned from many sources, it was not uncommon to lose or misplace a boxcar load of engine trans combos. That accounts for many old fords having production or serial numbers several month or even a year earlier than the glass numbers. Good luck Larry |
Ford used frame stamped numbers as identification for title purposes, as opposed to engine numbers, clear back to Model A days. Maybe even earlier. Whoever told you the crap about that not starting until 1956 is full of it. If your title has an engine number in the VIN box, that was an error made at some state or local level at some point in the past, not from Ford. Your best bet is to have the truck inspected and the title reissued with the correct numbers. It sounds like you're on the right track getting that handled.
This confusion comes from the fact many car manufacturers "back in the day" did use engine numbers as identification, but those were easily and often changed, either from a repair standpoint or a criminal one. That made stolen vehicles very hard to trace. All these things is what caused the feds to implement a standardized numbering system in the late 60's. |
And IHC was one of them using the engine. And the year was when it sold, not when built.
Ford used the frame, thus the star symbol before and after the number. |
Ford used the motor number on the title of the model t's
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Originally Posted by larryb346
(Post 9200693)
Some GM cars back into the early 50's were as they called numbers matching, at least in the bigger cars. My 51 Pontiac station wagon has the serial number stamped on a pad on the front of the engine to match the body serial number. I recently sold a 49 olds. convertible that has the same type id system, serial of body hand stamped on the engine pad.
Both these cars were titled off the body number. The body number was a embossed type number and the engine obviously hand stamped. As the engine was assigned to go into a body a employee stamped the body number into the engine. The earlier ford cars had the assigned serial number hand stamped onto the top of the transmission case when manufactured and assembled to the motor. The motor and trans combo was then shipped to the assembly line. The motor and trans was them put into a car. At that time a worker stamped the number off the trans onto the frame rail. The frame number and trans would match. I would suspect that practice would have been the same for the earlier trucks as well. I am not sure when that practice stopped. My 46 mercury has a matching number frame stamp and transmission stamp. The serial number shows a fairly early production number, however the glass "bugs" show all the glass was made 3 months latter year of production. From what I have learned from many sources, it was not uncommon to lose or misplace a boxcar load of engine trans combos. That accounts for many old fords having production or serial numbers several month or even a year earlier than the glass numbers. Good luck Larry Re: the GM cars; my info was primarily on Chevies, I wonder why they would be different than B-O-P? Just sheer volume? |
Not of historical info value and probably a contrary opinion, but if you currently have the truck legally registered and unless you are Concours showing it I would do nothing, ..............unless you like sharp sticks poked in your eyes. :-innocent
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1 Attachment(s)
here's mine on the bellhousing/hogshead:
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Ross
Not sure on the years. Perhaps they changed when they changed to the later style transmission and open drive shaft? On the old style trans there is a flat ground area near the top center and the number was stamped in that area. My 46 mercury and also a 40 ford both have those number in the trans as well as the frame. Much of the info I have about the history is from early V/8 club forum. There are a bunch of really old guy there and I always like guys older than me and those are getting to be fewer and farther between. If you haven't been over there you might give it a look as they go up to 53. (Early Ford V-8 Club) I am not sure on the chev.'s having a motor and body number the same as I seldom had one. I mostly had old fords and the bigger GM straight eight powered cars back then. Ya gotta love a flathead whether a V/8 or a straight 8 they sound great. Larry |
I can say that in Canada, they listed both an engine number and a serial number. They were different numbers. On my 52 Mercury, the firewall tag references the engine number as being located on a machined pad at the top of the right rear of the block. I have seen earlier tags where the engine number was stamped into it, just like the serial number and other codes. On the insurance cards I found, it lists both the serial and engine numbers. The engine in the truck has a number stamped on it, but it does not match the numbers on the insurance cards. It is a Canadian Ford remanufactured engine. On the rebuilder tag, it lists the engine number stamped on the block. It's right where the date code is found on US blocks, but no date code is present.
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