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Ex towing receiver hardware?
Okay...I've searched but I cannot find the diagram/thread that I think I remember that showed the details of the supposed thicker mounting hardware for the later model receivers that allowed the WD tongue weight rating to go from 1000#'s to 1250#'s.
I've been working with an Ex owner that has a 1000# receiver and I suggested that he contact a body shop to see if they could drill out the smaller hardware/holes to allow for the thicker mounting hardware. They said they could do that no problem. So he went to his Ford stealership to get the 'thicker' mounting hardware. When he was working with the parts guy he asked him to pull parts for a 2004 receiver and once he had the part numbers...he asked him to cross reference them with those from a 2000...much to his surprise...they were the SAME! :-hair The parts guy then asked why he wanted them and he indicated he wanted to beef up the WD tongue weight to the later models...and the parts guy started looking at other parts in the rear comparing them...the only thing he could find different were the springs... So...my question is...does anyone have real part numbers to substantiate the thicker hardware making the 1000# to 1250# capacity change?...if so please share them. Also does anyone have a data book on the say 2000 model year Ex to show the spring rate on the rear leafs versus the 2005 Ex? The guy is going to be emailing me the schematics of the receiver and hopefully I can scan them and put them up here... I'd like to get to the true bottom of this because either we're wrong with our assertion that the mounting hardware changed...or the Ford parts dude was looking up the wrong numbers... Anyone that has any factual data...I'd really appreciate the assist! Thanks, Joe. |
I just checked the Ford Source Books for all years Excursion and the spring specs are identical for all years.
If you want a copy, just let me know an I will email it to you. |
Looking at FTEPARTS I find that there are two hitches offered. One for the 2000 model year and another for the 2001 thru 2005 years.
The pic below if from the 2000 year.. no pic of the other one. As you can see the earlier one was changed mid way through first year production. Sorry, but that is all I've got on this. Description Year MSRP Price Core Price Your Price To 12/03/00 00-01 $374.40 $301.02 Description Year MSRP Price Core Price Your Price From 12/03/00 01-05 $499.42 $359.58 http://www.trademotion.com/schematics/M/MG00390.gif |
Bion,
THANKS! If I wasn't in replock on you...I'd hit you...it will have to wait until I spread some more love around. I had my doubts about the info the parts guy at the stealership was giving...I didn't even think to go to FTEPARTS to research it myself... Did you happen to write down the different part numbers for the different receivers? Also do you know if the actual mounting hardware kit listed for the 2000 is a different part number than the 01-05's? I'll go see if I can find anything too...but was just checking to see if you had the data already. Thanks again for helping out...I truly appreciate it! Joe. |
Bion,
Okay...I'm not sure where my link went to the FTEPARTS website...but I cannot find it. I did a search for FTE/Parts guy but there is no link in there either... Can you help a fellow FTE'r out and send me the link so I can do a search. EDIT: In thinking this thru...I beleive what the parts guy did was pulll the mounting HARDWARE kit information...at least that is my understanding...perhaps the mounting hardware really isn't the differnence and it is truly the HITCH itself since Bion has found two different hitches???...just trying to understand this fully...I always thought the hitch was the same and the hardware different...maybe both or maybe only the hitch changed...I sure would like to understand the whole story...as I'm sure others would too...perhaps others already know it for sure...and if so...please share with factual part numbers for the various years. THANKS! Joe. |
Here are the links to various online Dealer parts and accessory suppliers I have in my favorites.
Unfortunately, none of them list the part number, just the name. I am going to see my parts guy at Ace Ford sometime today. This guy is GOOD. I'll ask him your questions and let you know if he is willing. http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=215005 www.partsguyed.com http://http://www.bowenscarff-fordparts.com/ Jack Safro Ford-Milwaukee Oconomowoc Wisconsin-Ford Sales, Ford Parts, Certified Ford Body Shop, Ford Service, Sales New and Used! Bob Utter Genuine Ford Parts www.bobutterfordparts.com |
I can't find any differences in my search...?
Bion,
Thanks for the links. Here's what I have found out. The person I'm helping sent me the 2000 and 2004 hitch schematics. These schematics are shown below but they show the hitch PN and the bolt PN's as well as the drawing number and release date... I've compared the two schematics and I can't find any differences? :confused: Here's the 2000 hitch picture http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42...600x600Q85.jpg And here is the 2004 picture http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/35...600x600Q85.jpg If you click on the picture it should take you to my webshots page where you can get a larger look. If you cannot read it...I can email them to you if you like...but here is the data that is on the diagrams. ......................................2000........ .....................2004 Hitch PN...........................17D826............... ..........17D826 Bolts PN...........................N605947-S426 (lft sd).....N605947-S426 (lft sd) ......................................N605947-S427 (rt sd)......N605947-S427 (rt sd) Nut plate PN.....................N811366-S427................N811366-S427 ......................................AM-70-HN.....................AM-70-HN Drawing #.........................P37562.................. ......P37562 ......................................11/16/1999...................11/16/1999 Perhaps someone can see if I am missing something but these two schematics sure look to be exactly the same...in fact...the drawing number and date is the same so how did Ford change the receiver and up the rating on these hitches yet the drawings and all the actual part numbers show exactly the same?...the only thing I can see any differnce on is M14 hardware is referenced as being the hardware for the 2004 and on the 2000 one it shows BEFORE 12/3/00 is M14...so perhaps the GRADE of the bolts is the only difference and not the DIAMETER?... The only confusing part on the 2000 drawing the M14 reference is it says ‘Before 12/3/00’…but then the 2004 drawing only shows M14 but yet they say the drawings are the same revision date?...that is confusing to me…normally when you make ANY change on a drawing you bump the revision and release date... Now if the part numbers for the springs truly are different as was reported by the parts guy at the stealership...why do the spring rates show the same?...something isn't adding up here... Searching the sites that Bion listed shows the leaf springs but NOT the part numbers so you really can't compare easily...we need more data... I'd like to see if we can figure this out. Thanks, Joe. |
I've been thinking more about this...
If the springs are different as was relayed by the Ford parts guy helping my friend...why isn't the GVWR of the truck any different from 2000 to 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 for a V10 or PSD Ex??? Plus Bion's source book shows that the spring rates are the same. If the part numbers above show the SAME for bolts, nuts and hitch between 2000 and 2004 yet the WD mode tongue weight is 1000# on the 2000 and 1250# on the 2004...what changed? Plus...lets say some other component in the rear suspension changed...like the shackles or bolts...the part about this argument that doesn't hold water for me is the GVWR of the Ex is NOT DIFFERENT between the different years. So...if I had a 2000 Ex with a receiver rating of 1000# in WD mode...and I took 1500#'s of sand or cement and loaded it in the rear of the Ex...the springs and shackles would OBVIOUSLY come into play there. Now...lets say I did the same thing with the 2005 Ex...but it has a 1250# receiver...again the springs and shackles would come into play but NOT the receiver...does my example make any sense? In both cases I would load the Ex to near its GVWR... I'm trying to figure out how springs or some other component of the rear suspension could really be different but NOT the GVWR...that's all... I'm beginning to really wonder about the M14 hardware reference...the difference here could simply be the GRADE of fastner used...but wouldn't that dictate a different part number if a grade 3 was initially used and they upgraded to a grade 5?... In the end we may just find out that Ford simply re-evaluated the design and found out they had more margin then they thought?...that is a possibility too...meaning all the hardware is the same... Just typing as I am thinking this thru to see if anyone has any ideas... Open to your ideas here guys... Thanks, Joe. |
Joe-
I'm heading out to do my errands now. Will be stopping by the dealer. M14 is a metric size specification for a hardened bolt. They would need to be at least 10.9 grade (metric again) |
If anyone is looking for a brand new receiver platform along with all new mounting hardware...I would be willing to sell. I purchased for my 2003 replacement, then sold the truck. The 05 is in good shape still. I listed this in the "MarketPlace" section.
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Joe-
No joy. He dug hard, but his computer and a couple of books did not show any differences. All it showed was one part. I'm afraid the info may have been lost to time. On a side note, he did find one thing that I found very interesting and you should too. The complete frame assembly when ordered as a part is the same for all years 2000 through 2004. The 2005 are different with a different part number. This I never knew. The parts manager did not know why, and said maybe the body shop would know. I went over and asked the body shop manager, who is a guy that has been dong this for ford for like 40 years. He stated he was familiar with it, as they replaced one or two of them. He SAID that the 2005 had some thicker webs in the back and slightly wider mid point flanges. He mentioned that the biggest difference was that it had holes and mount point positions for the front coil springs systems of the 05 and up superduty's. I don't know if this is true or not. Don't ya wish we could get ahold of one of the engineers for a while? Part # 2 5C7Z-5005-AA $42.98.42 Part # 1 4c7z-5005-aa $4046.23 I think the top one is the 2004, not sure. Getting old and forgot what he said. Bion |
Bion,
Thanks for the time and research... This sure is looking like possibly an urban myth as to stronger hardware or different hitches making up the difference from the 1000# WD mode tongue weight to the 1250# WD mode tongue weight... There may be some validity to the 'paper' upgrade that some say Ford did to change that rating...perhaps Ford did a structual analysis and determined they had 25% more margin to give on the rating?... But as you said...without talking to one of the engineers...one will never know... But is sure is interesting that when we search the parts...I mean compare the two model years part by part...they are the SAME...kind of makes you scratch your head now doesn't it... I hate giving out WRONG information...and I had always been led to beleive that the receiver mounting hardware had been changed to facilitate the weight upgrade...that doesn't seem to be a factually based position given our research looking at replacement parts now does it? As an aside...the frames being different is interesting...not sure what to make of it...hopefully it means our 2005 frames are somewhat stronger and beefier in the rear which will accomodate the towing forces of my 1200# tongue weight better! Thanks again for your diligence and time in looking...your data shows about the same as the schematics I posted above...and that is there does not appear to be any perceptible differences...at least not in the part number arena...and for petes sake...the drawings are both dated 11/16/1999 for the receiver...so that doesn't appear to be rev'd...but their configuration control may be more lax than what I am used to for my government customers! Also...if ANYONE has any other information that could be useful in determining if there are REAL differences here...that we are missing...please share actual part numbers between the two model years so we can research it more! Joe. |
I did the hitch up-grade to my 2000 Ex. I will see if I can find the thread that I posted the information in. Maybe I should make a separate thread for this?
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I replaced my 2000 Excursions 10,000 lbs. hitch with the 2002 Excursions 12,500 lbs. hitch. The only thing that looked different to me was the bolts that came with the 2002 version (18mm vs. 14mm). Replacing the hitch can be done but the two torque bolts need to be drilled out. For me this was a very time consuming process. I only dropped the tank about 2" or so and used a magnet to retrive nuts and drilled out bolt and then again to place the nuts. Here's a couple pictures of the process.
The MSRP on the 2000 hitch is $346.23 while the MSRP on the 2002 hitch is $499.42. However, I am not sure if the price difference is because of the differences in the bolt sizes. You should be able to find it cheaper at the www.powerstrokeshop.com. I received this e-mail from Ben at Powerstrokeshop.com - PSD and Ford Superduty Parts when I was inquiring about the size difference in the bolts. (Ben) I believe that you are right about the bolts. The following part #'s will help upgrade your hitch. W708082-S426, W707796-S427, and 1C7Z17758AA. For my up-grade I didn't want to use the torque bolts so I used a total of 8 of the regular hex bolts. From www.powerstrokeshop.com *W708772S426 $9.36 $0.00 $5.80 BOLT M18X44 HF PIL A *1C7Z17758AA $21.13 $0.00 $15.72 BOLT M18X2.5X59 HEX *W709318S441 $14.00 $0.00 $8.68 NUT&RET M18X65 HF DU 14 MM bolt compared to 18 MM bolt http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2245.jpg Bumper pulled off http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2246.jpg Retrieving drilled out bolt and nut. http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2250.jpg Dropping the hitch http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2249.jpg Comparing the two http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2253.jpg Dropping the tank http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2257.jpg New Bolts I didn't use the torque bolts so I could take it off if I wanted to http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2256.jpg Bolts inside frame http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...n/IMGP2255.jpg 2002 Hitch http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...itch_12500.jpg |
REP points for southwind!!!! coming at ya
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