Fuel injection response 2009 5.4
 

Greetings,
New User here, (annoying old bugger if you need to know), I'm considering the 2009 F250 with a 5.4 and six speed ZF. Background: I'm a manual everything type person (automatic transmissions are wonderful devices for disabled people).

Currently driving a 94 GMC 3500 crewcab with 6.4TD and NV4500 (been through all the first year EFI problems, etc.). I have no brand preference, it just happens that my brother in law sells GMC. GMC no longer offers a standard transmission and Dodge is dropping theirs too. I detest the Dodge because of the radically sloped windows and the GMC isn't much better.

That leaves Ford. I don't care for the 2008 restyled sheetmetal, but at this point there is no vehicle that is interesting enough to get excited about. Buying a new vehicle is a necessary evil (better than walking).

Lately I've tested some small vehicles like the FJ Cruiser, Jeep 4dr Wrangler and Honda Element. I like the upright windows, but the footroom is just way too cramped. I have to be careful not to step on all three pedals at once.

I tried a Hino 165 and really liked it, but they won't let me option it out. Totally a take it or leave it purchase. That puts me right back to pickups. The one thing I noticed about the FI programming on the small vehicles was that the engine is very slow to come back to idle.

All the diesels I've driven always return to idle quickly and provide good engine braking. Modern gas engines seem to have bizarre programming that holds the revs and slowly comes back to idle (to prevent stalling?). This drives me crazy because I've already shifted and I'm bringing the clutch pedal up when the engine hasn't got back to a lower RPM yet.

Does the 5.4 (or 6.8) have this same characteristic?

Welcome to the site!!

Software keeps the engine at a certain rpm to burn unburnt fuel to decrease bad emissions..Just the way it is. I can't comment on the 5.4 or 6.8...

Dick

Not to hijack the thread, but this throttle behavior is for emissions? Interesting. Is this why most (all?) new vehicles have drive by wire arrangements for throttle control?

All vehicles after 80 1/2 had idle control which could have lowered idle at a ramped rate.
The newer drive by wire I think is making the situation worse. I really don't like the throttle response of my mountaineer..


Dick

How about diesels? My '90 diesel doesn't do this, do the newer ones do it?

nine returns to idle quickly

Neil,Like you I'm all for manual stuff.I have an '08 F250 with the 6 spd. manual x/miss. When shifting up through the gears letting off the throttle a second before clutch disengagement will get the RPM down for the shift and clutch re-engagement.

That should read '06 F250 rather than '08 F250.

GVS,
Just to confirm, you have a 3V5.4 in your 2006? I don't rush my shifts at all and an idle hang would be extremely annoying. I couldn't find a standard transmission F250/350 locally to try for myself. Typically I release the accelerator pedal fully on a shift. So if you blip yours, the return to idle is quick with no steps in it? How about when cold? Is there a hesitation to drop to the fast idle then?

I had an 87 Safari V6 5spd and it had a terrible idle hang cold and was just tolerable when warm. I had to cut and weld all the pedal mounts just to get my workboots to fit in. No more vans for me. Total POS except for the composite rear springs.
Neil

The slow drop back to idle is definitely for emissions - lots of carbed vehicles in the 70's had deceleration gizmos, to keep the carb from slapping shut too fast.

Even my '75 Triumph TR7 had "deceleration bypass valves" on it's dual carbs that opened up when the vacuum ramped up too fast and bypassed the throttle plate. I think it has something to do with NOx emissions, but might also be HC's...

If it really REALLY bugs you, you MIGHT be able to get a custom tune that would get rid of all or most of it.

Neil, Yes on the vehicle description.I don't blip the throttle on up shifts.Just release the throttle completely just before clutch release.

GVS,
I wasn't meaning anyone should blip the throttle on a shift. I was just wondering how the engine returned to idle when you did this.
From your comments it appears that the 5.4 does not have an idle hang issue.
Thank you.

I've had this problem from the day I purchased my new 2008 F250 5.4 6-Spd. The dealer has repeatedly told me they can't do anything about it. It is extremely annoying because proper shifts routinely take 2-3 seconds to complete and can take longer than 5 seconds (for the RPMs to decrease from about, say, 1800 to 900) - or worse - they may be impossible to complete without slipping the clutch. Accelerating up a hill can be a downright embarrassment!

Worse yet: The engine will actually continue to accelerate after the throttle is lifted.

But it gets even worse: The engine will actually automatically accelerate, without warning! This is prone to happen while (or after) driving down hill, or in stop-and-go traffic, and after exiting a freeway. Inching down a steep hill in "low/low" with the camper is a scary proposition, given that with the low gearing, the engine can overcome the brakes.

IMO This situation and Ford's "handling" of it is absolute CRAP!

An old topic rises from the dead!

I've had my 2009 F250 for about 8 months now. I serves to remind me how pitiful new vehicles are. Here is the list:

1) Cramped interior - The engine is set back so far there is very poor footroom. The brake pedal is centered under the steering column, WTF? I have repositioned the clutch and brake pedals so now it's tolerable to drive. The interior storage is lousy; door pockets just don't cut it.

2) Poor fuel injection programming - Virtually no engine braking. Yes it has some, but nothing like it should be. It takes way too long to return to idle. The RPMs actually increase slightly on the 3-4 and 5-OD shifts. Only 50-100 RPM so it's not a problem, just a nuisance.

3) Injection stumble - When it's cold out, say 38*F and below, the FI has a bad stumble at about 1800 RPM. Fortunately this goes away as the engine warms up.

4) Horrendously slow gear changes - We are talking 3 seconds for a shift. I thought it was mostly the FI, but the ZF just moves too slowly. If I try a faster shift, the syncros complain. A two second shift results in a slight clash most noticeable on the 2-3 shift. I rarely ever need to rush, so I have gotten used to just poking along. I drive easy to keep fuel consumption as low as possible. If I hold up other traffic, tough, take it up with FORD. It will go OK if I really step on it, I just don't like to treat my equipment that way.

5) Poor mileage - To be fair it weighs over 7000lbs, so it can only do so good. I do a lot of coasting to help out the mileage. It ranges from 15.2 to 17.7 MPG. That's not bad you say? Well yes it is, that's per 160 oz Imperial gallon. Works out to 12.1 to 14.1 US MPG.

6) Goofy shift pattern - Yes I know many of you like having reverse over first, I don't. The last vehicle I had with reverse over first was a 54 Studebaker. It shifted much faster than this F250.

OK, now for the rest of the story. If it was destroyed in a crash, would I buy another one? Yes because it's the only game in town until the 2010 order books close. After that, no way I would want one because manuals will no longer be available. No way I would consider an automatic, ever.

I can say that if the footroom and FI programming were correct, I'd be quite pleased with the vehicle. A not-so-great manual is still better than suffering with an automatic.

If I can only get a stick by buying from an import manufacturer, I'll be pleased to thumb my nose at the North American manufacturers. I've bought nothing but new North American vehicles for many years, but that is likely to change.