Fords going downhill
 

i just recently saw that the f150 is no longer the leader of vehicle sales......hmm i wonder why

uh, gas prices?????

The "BIG" three are all in trouble:
Outdated buisness model, Poor mangement,Massive red tape to do anything, Gridlock in general. just like our goverment with the same problems.

For years they had it easy, My Daddy bought a Ford, My Grandaddy,ect.. Like the Harley thing. Some people buy just the name But,
I think this time might be differant. The next generation of truck buyers will not fall for this.

Check out the truck sales for May and 2008 as a whole.

PickupTrucks.com - News and Sales

Tacoma is the only truck that improved in sales comparing May '07 to May '08, by 1313 vehicles.

Wonder why Camry & Corolla sales are now higher than the F150?

It's all about the fuel prices and mpgs. It's all around on the net as to why trucks/suv's aren't selling.

in tj's mind I'm sure the only reason is because they no longer have the 4.9 I6 with a standard transmission, the be all end all of motors that can be put in a truck!

I do miss the manual and the 4.9L, they were a great combo! Had one in my '80 F150 XLT. But like you, don't consider this Fords downfall.

That is just for the month of May they are still way ahead for the year and still the #1 Truck!

Money is more important than loyalty....
 

It's not like it costs $10 a month extra to run an F150 for a month over, say, a Corolla. People are struggling to live within their means; many are totally over their heads in debt already, and they just *ain't* gonna buy a big cool truck once the cost of a fillup (and the mpg underlying) hits them in their food budget. And those people who need or still want a truck will have their pick of 1-2 year old used trucks, still under warranty and with low miles, for half or 2/3 the price of a new one.

Car and truck buyers are pretty fickle, and they move quickly and in large numbers to vehicles that make sense for them today, whereas the product development cycle (and thought process) of the domestic auto makers moves glacially.

The sad thing is that even if Ford sold a Focus for every lost F150 sale, they'd still go under, based on the relative profit margins for the two vehicles.

George

well rollerstud its not really my mind its a fact that the f150 isnt the top selling vehicle anymore.im not trying to be a dick,but look at gas there will always be a demand for trucks,its not just fords downfall but all of the big 3,btw a 4.9 isnt an ideal engine for a mom to pick up groceries or kids from school.the bottom line is as much as gas prices go up people arent going to keep buying trucks,but there will always be a demand

So TJ, what's your point? I'm lost.

We all know that truck sales are dropping due to fuel prices, which isn't only impacting Ford and the Big 3, but all full size trucks (yes including the Titan and Tundra). By your 1st post, it seems as though your are trying to speculate that there are other reasons why the F150 is doing so bad, not just due to fuel prices. Just trying to figure out your agenda.

People in the snow belts who sold thier rigs for one reason or another will be saying "WTF" come fall when the weather man starts talking about snow. My old '88 will be for sale soon. I've had that ole wonderful lady for 20 years and I'm gonna get a new one in 2010.

Tim

no i think the 5.4 is an excellent engine just has crappy mpgs,and is hard to work on

Dunno about that....
 

I'm thinking that people in the snow belts have alternatives like 4-cylinder Escapes, things like Fusions/Milans with AWD, and frankly, I have been driving front wheel drive cars for many years--in the snow belt--and really haven't had problems at all. If anything, an agile medium size car with AWD would be safer in most conditions than a larger, taller truck--especially one with part time 4WD. Add stability control that's becoming mandatory, and the 4WD truck just ain't needed to get through stuff unless you are legitimately doing a Forest Ranger's job, or doing construction waaay out in the sticks, etc. Or if you have to drive a big load of drywall through the snow at least once weekly... And maybe ya already got an old beater truck that could do that and tie up only a few grand of your money (not a new 40k loan...) The guy with the beater (or even a more recent truck--like my E150 van from '02) has the old truck to serve that role, so he goes and buys himself an Escape, or a Fusion, whatever. Parks the truck most of the time and it'll get thru the next 10 years easy. This is gonna make a big hole in the new truck market for some time to come....

I keep rooting for Ford (and have to wish well for GM and Chrysler as well), because I'm a Detroiter and things ain't been good here for a lot of good folks. And with truck plants shutting down, it's gonna be very grim.

At least they build Focuses in Wayne, MI, Mazda6's in Flat Rock, MI.

George

Well, when it's snowing and you need to HAUL something big, let's see the 4cyl Escape do it...Even with a trailer....

For quite a few years, many people have been buying pickups for everyday cars, mabey now people will buy vehicles more appropriate to their lifestyle. That alone will decrease sales of pickups.

Like I said, people will have older trucks that they keep around...
 

I have an '02 E150 van, bought it new, got a 4.6 so it's *OK* for a big van in terms of mpg, but not great in terms of vehicles in general. I retired middle of last year, and sold a commuter car I had, and was going to go with my van as everyday driver especially in the winter, and my old BMW 318is to fill in the gaps. But I often carry a bicycle, go to metro and state parks for trails, and I was using my van a lot with just me, a bike, and my clothes and stuff.

I *love* the van as a "motorhome" for bicycling support, but I ended up getting a small SUV because the van was just too much for everyday driving, parking, etc, but I still have the van. This weekend, it's going on a 500 mile round trip with my wife, my son, and me in it, to a bicycle race that he's participating in. (He's a Cat 2 road racer and has the 102 mile state champ road race to do.) We can carry a big cooler of *stuff* for the team, spare wheels, a spare bike for me to shuttle with, etc.

And Monday, he and 11 friends are going to the UP in Michigan for a few days. They gotta get 12 kids up there and they're short on cars. Because I trust the van, I told him to take it, so long as I get it back full of gas. I put syn oil in it a while back, and it will hit the time limit on the change before any mileage limit. This trip will probably be close to 1000 miles. With 7 college kids and all their luggage, the gas cost per head is going to be as good as a compact car.

So I'm keeping the van, and focusing its use on when I *need* it or can really use it. I would love to put another 100k miles on it--and if I do, it will depreciate only a few thousand dollars at most. So it's perfect as an extra vehicle. I'd never buy a big van again (this is my 4th over the last 22 years), but this one may well last me another 10-15 years. The vans have seen us through countless vacations, taking my son from Cub Scout to Eagle Boy Scout (I drove most every campout). And it's got an Eaton posi I had put in early on, so it can and does carry big loads in the snow--I remember some of those camping access roads in Boy Scouts and I never stuck it.

I'd be an idiot to buy a new truck or van, because the potential depreciation over 100k miles would be $20-30k easily. In comparison, my van is almost "free" to drive. And I'm sure there are a lot of similar trucks and vans out there. People will have them, use them when they really need them, and otherwise drive small stuff. I've commuted for years in some of my older vans (and a Ford pickup before that), and in my early days drove 11 mpg musclecars; sure wouldn't do that now.

George

7 college kids in a van!!!you van has my prayers lol

there's a serious lack of fun fwd and an overall lack of awd cars...

the SVT focus is gone. the mini is about the only 'fun' fwd car out there (ricers will hate me for saying that). The rest of the FWD cars are generally variations of the same econo shoebox; with the occasional high power (170+, for a shoebox that's a lot) hp motor stuffed in for the top of the line sporty thing..

for AWD cars, before the fusion, there was the unreliable X-Type jag and the not so great mileage subies. The golf R32 weighed as much as a buick... The DSMs broke down too often..

that's why a lot of people in the snow belts turned to suv's and trucks. And in the case of an accident, you may think you're safer in your awd car; but I'd rather take my 3 ton lifted civic crusher; and live. I can't speak for the 3-18 cars it'll take to bring my truck to a stop in an accident...

I'll drive my mustang to work tomorrow for you. I've gotten 7mpg out of it on an occasion or two... Maybe I'll bring global warming to minnesota. :D

YMMV, but I consistently get as good or better mileage out of my 5.4/auto, compared to the 3 - 4. /manuals I had prior. Where I live, most of my driving is country/hwy.

There will always be a demand for these trucks from people that need them. I think that the F-100 (P525) will be a big help to Ford's Truck sales when/if it makes it to market.

T. J.

I live in snow country. While I see a lot of trucks, there are a lot of all wheel drives. Subarus, Audi's, even a few all wheel drive Mercedes sedans. And as far as Subarus getting bad mileage - it gets DOUBLE what my parked Super Duty gets, while being much more stable in the bad stuff. I drive my 2WD Chevy cargo van w/studded tires everywhere. It seems like I've got to watch out for the lifted trucks that think they are invincable in the bad weather just because they have four wheel drive. Those are the one's I see in a ditch, or on their roof on the side of the road.

Just about any small FWD car, including a car like a stock Focus with a stick, is fun to drive, IMO.

You think an Impreza or Outback gets bad mileage in comparison to a full size truck? Ummm OK...

I find that driving any full-size truck like my van or a big pickup is in no way fun. What the heck is fun about driving a 5-6000 lb beast down the road, really? Loud exhaust and look-at-me lights and lifts? Maybe a Lightning or something would be amusing. Don't get me wrong, I love trucks for what they do, but they are certainly not about driving fun.

i agree i wish other people thought that tho

For most purposes, a normal FWD or AWD car or small SUV will work. It's those extreme conditions that we get here in CO and other places that it won't or if you truly need a vehicle that can handle farm or back country work.

Had a '99 Explorer Limited 5.0L AWD, father had a '96 Explorer XLT 4.0 4X4. In March 2003 we got dumped with snow and the majority of the city was snowed in. Long story short, my fathers 4X4 went through the snow without a problem. My AWD was constantly getting stuck in the same areas. The power split in the AWD (I believe was 35 front/ 65 back) just wasn't good enough. I now refuse to purchase an AWD.

The last two winters we've also gotten some huge snow totals multiple times, in a matter of a 48hr time frame. It's nice going around town and seeing the only thing on the road in the Denver Metro area are true 4X4 vehicles. The CUV's weren't out as the snow was to high and their ground clearance too low. Saw and helped many a stuck Subaru, Escapes and Volvo's that did make an attempt, but never made it far. Most the time these CUV's and cars couldn't make it out of their driveway let alone their subdivision.

So true those that have older trucks won't need to worry, and the majority of time most people won't need it. But I know I love my truck for the 1% of time that a real truck/4X4 is needed due to weather.

"Toyota Tacoma passed GMC Sierra for the number 4 sales position among pickups in year-to-date sales, 72,704 to 70,765 units sold."

Was FORD right to give up on the Ranger ? . Maybe Not

Have to agree with many idiot drivers in trucks/suvs in the snow. Your typical person that has no common sense and thinks 4X4 will help them stop. I've had to educate a few by letting them know 4X4 will help you get going, but the added weight will only increase your stopping distance.

True I have seen many of these idiots in ditches, but have seen my fair share of Volvo's and Subaru's right along side them. No offense, but I personally think many of the Subaru drivers are worse than the 4X4 suv/truck owners. The thinking is they have AWD so they can do what a 4X4 can, but because it's a car it can handle and doing everything a car can to. Just my experience, results may vary though.

I don't think the Tacoma and Ranger are in the same category anymore. The Ranger is the only compact truck left, while all other compacts have ballooned up to a mid-sized Dodge Dakota size.

Agree that Ford should never have given up on the Ranger. Then again I don't think they should have let it run on the '93 or '94 build for so long either. Had a '99 and loved it, but the current Ranger is dated is far behind the competition regarding refinement.

Sign of the times. Bought a used Escape last October for my daughter to get her learners permit on. Since then. Have drove our F450 1,000 miles our Armada 1,500 miles and our Escape 13,000 miles. If we had to do it over again should have bought an Escape instead of an Armada. In the future I still feel pick ups will do better than the big SUV's. Maybe GM will make a mini Hummer like a mini Cooper. Still planning of towing over 3,000 miles this summer. So some of us still need our trucks for work and towing our toys.

You and I have different opinions on what's "fun" to drive I guess.

And not compared to a full size truck, why on earth would I compare a car with a truck? compared to other similar sedans. Compare the imprezza with a focus or corolla or another compact sedan, and tell me the subie gets good mpg...

I like driving a slightly lifted truck w/ big meats under it. I like being able to pull coworkers out of snow banks created by the snow plows coming by. I like being able to get out of my driveway when there's a foot of snow without having to bust out the shovel. I like being able to go camping with my truck (I'd love to see a smart on a forest trail...). I always have the right of way at a 4 way stop... I don't see Civic owners disagreeing with me often }>

guess it comes down to opinion.

my favorite is when they get snowbanked in... and it renders AWD useless because they can't exactly climb 2 ft of snow with a soda can worth of ground clearance ;)

Truck sales may also be down because they last alot longer than they used to. There is no need to upgrade every few years. Why have a payment when you can use that money to pay for the high fuel prices.

my 87 had 229k miles on it and ran fine... if I was to not need a bigger bed, my 04 would be getting there and past... I can't count the number of mod motors with 150k miles i've seen that opened up still look brand new inside, with cross hatching on the cylinder walls still visible :)

Each is fun in it's element. The wife's Solara convertible is much more fun to drive on the pavement and on nice days with the top down. The truck is fun in the dirt.

I do notice more A-holes tailgating me in the Solara though, especially in trucks and SUVs. A quick brake check puts them in line. What's the worst they will do, hit me?

Mike

The thread started out talking about people giving up big trucks for cars, so that's why I'm comparing cars with trucks.

As for your big, meaty truck, enjoy it, but add up the gas costs. Nobody said the alternative was a Smart car for forest trails, but something like a 4WD Escape or a Subaru would be fine in most every situation involving campground roads.

I'll bet you could count the people you've "heroically" pulled out of snow banks on one hand, and too bad if you have to get a snow shovel out. Someday you should do the math and see how much it costs you to be a big macho hero....

Your last comment shows that you have your truck to offset your other feelings of inadequacy, and to be a macho bully--which is likely the part that you think is "fun." Right of way belongs to the person who legally has it, not to the dumbest guy in the biggest truck...

yep, you got it so right, you should open up one of those mind reading over the internet sites.

as for the calculation on the gas costs; I did that, a long time ago. Gas is 2.7% of my expenses, up from 2.2% same time last year. hence why i'm not the one complaining when gas went up 20-30% in price. Maybe you should have done your budgeting a bit better, bought a more economical vehicle to begin with, and not sign up at all for this message board.

FORD beats us over the Head with the Idea that there truck is the best besause it's the #1 in sales.

Is there anybody out there (besides Ford) that thinks the #1 selling vehicle for 2009 will be a V-8 auto F150 Gas Hog ?

How could they sell this to the Big Bucker's at the top ?

Nope, not with a whopping 320hp and 390tq. :-X18

the problem is is that its way too dam big,there is no reason mpgs shouldnt be improving,in my expiriences the 5.4 hasnt done better on gas than the 351 did even tho its a smaller engine,if they could get 3-4 mpgs im sure there would be a few more people in line for a new f150

I feel the same way and believe this is the majorities point of view. There is that minority though that feels a bigger more powerful engine is needed to increase sales. I say give me them both and I'll be extremely happy, if I can only have one, give me the mpgs. With fuel prices, it's all about mpgs.

i agree,but thats when people start bitchin about how ford doesnt offer enough options,in a way that true,they got rid of the v6(which ive never heard anything great about them)and from my expirience the 4.6 only get maybe 2-3 mpgs,and then people whine about how trucks arent supposed to get good mpgs.

I think it's funny that the same people who complain about gas prices are the ones passing me at 80 on the highway. Slowing down from 65 to the 55 speed limit netted me 2 more MPG in my work van.