4.0 OHV noise
 

I am the original owner of a '00 supercab with a 4.0 (60 degree) V-6 that has a weird engine noise that is getting louder.
When first started (cold), everything is fine for about 10-15 seconds, after that there is a light, intermittent metallic tapping noise.
It sounds like valvetrain noise to me and not the lower end of the engine.
Whats weird about it is that only after running for 10-15 seconds will the noise appear, and stay there, even when at normal operating temperature.
This noise has been there since the truck was new, but is getting louder.
I religiously change the oil and filter every 3k miles (been a mechanic for the past 30 yrs.), and it just turned 55k miles total.
Has anyone had the same problem?
Thanks in advance !

See: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...19&postcount=4

Welcome to FTE.

I have this engine & have had the same kind of noise, apparently caused by three different things.

1) as Rockledge posted about, Ford replaced my new then, (one month old) engine, for wrist pin problems, before this TSB on "marble noise" was put out.

The Dealers service manager said Ford had been "tweeking" this engine for years & had increased the stroke & trimmed the piston skirts such that if the engine factory didn't control tolerences properly, with the extra stroke, trimmed kirts, the pistons fit could be loose enough to "wobble" in the bore, at the bottom of the stroke.

Shortly after this story & my engine replacement, Ford issued the "Marble Noise" TSB & said it was "a normal charachteristic" of this engine & that tests showed that it had no negatve longivity on engine life!!!! Just try selling our used Ranger that sounds like that, RIGHT!!!!

2) The first time I changed oil in this puppy, it began to rattle just in the time frame you noticed (about 20-30 seconds after start up), scared the heck outta me.

I thought I had forgot to put all the oil in. lol It finally dissapeared in about 4 days.

Sometimes after an oil & filter change it would rattle for two weeks, before quieting down until the next oil change.

After some reading & expiermenting, I found I could eliminte it by first quickly draining & refilling the crankcase, THEN quickly replacing the oil filter, wih a completely filled Motorcraft FL-1A filter, then disabiling the fuel pump & cranking the engine to reprime the oil pump, burp the oiling system & build oil pressure, instead of starting the engine right after the oil & filter change.

This has really made a big difference & has completely, or almost completely stopped the days long rattle/marbling, after an oil change.

3) Rattle after a cold start, that continues after warm up, I found to be caused by Combustion Chamber Deposit Interference (CCDI) !!!!
This problem is caused by combution chamber deposits on the head & the tops of the pistons in the "squish zone", when the factory didn't control tolerance build up closely enough, or by inattention to detail of the engine designer, by not allowing enough clearance for deposit build up, so that the piston contacts the head through the deposits. This usually will subside as the engine warms up.

This problem may arise after some time, as engine deposits build up.

So my 4.0L is mighty persnickety about the fuel it gets, as it too suffers from CCDI.

I've had good luck keeping the CCDI at bay, by using Texaco & Chevron gas & when the CCDI shows up, it gets a 20 oz dose of Chevrons "Techron Concentrate Plus", in a tank of either of those fuels & running most of the treated tank out, with sprited driving & while doing several sessions of Fords "blow it out above 3500 rpm for three miles" part of their 4.0L "decarbon TSB", while using the Techron treated tank.

So if any one, or combination of, those things seem to fit your OHV 4.0L "rattle/marbling" noise, maybe you can derive some peace & quiet, by trying those things that seem to fit. lol

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks pawpaw for the detailed response, the term you used, 'marbling' is exactly what the noise sounds like. It would make sense that this would be a wrist pin problem, with the slop between the pin and the piston being just enough to create this noise, but not excessive enough to really create a racket. I had already ruled out piston slap because the noise is still there at normal operating temperature.
I will try the oil change routine you suggested next, I doubt if filling the new filter with clean oil before installing it would make much of a difference. I always do this when replacing the filter, I cringe to hear main bearings run dry when first started! It seems as though your suggestion is to prevent complete oil gallery drainage.
I will also look into carbon buildup also, driving here in Honolulu is 99% stop and go, very hard on any engine, not to mention the perfect enviroment for carbon build-up.
Mahalo (thanks in Hawaiian) again bud.....
DKBLURANGER

My wrist pin noise really sounded more like a "Diesel", in fact a guy with a new Toyota Tacoma at the boat ramp where I was putting in, came over & said "when did Ford begin putting diesel engines in the Ranger!!!!! Yup that day it sounded that bad & the story persuaded the Dealer to partition the factory for a new crate engine rplacement, which Ford did .

Now the marbling after an oil change, or from CCDI, sound an awful lot alike to me.

It seems to me, air gets trapped somewhere in the oiling system & has taken from 4 days, to as long as 3 weeks to stop, IF I change the oil filter first, or let the pan drain too long.

So to eliminate air entrapment, or the oil pump loosing it's prime, or whatever is happeing, I first quickly drain the pan & am prepaired to refill it without delay, with all my oil containers opened.

The oil fllter I stand up in it carton so it won't fall over & prefill completely, right up to the mounting threads, by placing a smooth screwdriver in the antidrainback valve, to open it enough so it can vent the filter media, as I pour oil into the center opening. Then I close the cartons lid, so nasties don't fall in & with the filter in it's container, it's less likely to tip over.

Seeing as how the OHV 4.0L's oil filter is inverted, with the closed end down, we can completely fill the filter & install it without spilling a drop!!!! lol

Doing it this way sure has helped the marbling after oil & filter changes, so if you've noticed marbling after oil changes, give this routine a try, you may be as pleasantly surprised as I was!!!!

From your description of your location, I'll bet CCDI deposits belong high on your suspect list.

So given your location, maybe include CALTEX in your fuel choices, as it too contains Techron, so with the addition of a 20oz bottle of Techron concentrate Plus, to a tank of their gas, you have at least a 5x concentraton of a good decarb cleaner upper, that'll likely make a difference in one tank, IF CCDI deposits are the culprit.

Will be interesting to hear how it goes, so keep us posted from aloha land.

Just gotta get over there before my ride on space ship earth is over!!!!

same comments
 

What really made me want to do something was a remark made by a well known fast food chain burger flipper at the drive-thru window, "man, you got oil in that thing".....lol
That was the last straw...........I owned a '91 S/cab with a 4.0 and it never had any kind of eng. noises.........Ford really screwed up on this 'tweak'.
The 4.0 is a great motor for my type of driving, lots of low end grunt, but as you well know, it runs out of steam fairly quickly in the upper rpm band.
My truck has the 3.55 limited slip axle, so it's great for stoplight 'LeMans' starts, however, anything above, say 3800 rpm will not produce much more forward propulsion, coupled with a noticeble increase in engine noise, the little thing will clearly let you know that it is not happy with what you are doing.
I call it "needless thrashing of metal".......lol
Will try the oil change procedure next time around, in a bout 3 months or so..
Thanks again !

Another thought just came to mind, this engine is to use 5W-30, NOT 5W-20, so make sure your using the proper weight engine oil.

According to Ford, this engines oil pump can't handle the engines volume demand at operating temp, with the lower viscosity 5W-20 lube, so this engne & a few others, never got back specified to use 5W-20!!!!

Be sure to try the decarb routene, with the Techron Concentrate Plus, I just did another treated tank back in Sept, while making a 380 mile road trip to Bass Pro Shops down in Concorde NC, all has been nice & quiet since & it turned in another 24.8 mpg on this trip, just as it had on previous runs to the same destination. So the Techron didn't hurt my highway mpg any.

Anyway you can be doing the decarb test & see if it helps any, before you do the oil change routene.

Sure hope you get the positive results I have!!!!

oil viscosity
 

Just to let you know how old school I am, I believe in using the heaviest multi-grade eng. oil as possible, i.e. 20w-50. Now with the oil pump issue, this would certainly create a problem, I am seriously considering dropping the pan an installing an aftermarket pump!
The reason I like to use heavier oils is because of driving conditions and temperatures here, however I will try 5w-30 next time around.
I am green with envy when you mentioned almost 25 mpg !, the absolute best I have gotten is 16 mpg ! The norm is usually 14.......
Our state govenment, (in their infinite wisdom......yeah right), has saddled us with E-10 fuel. Ethanol, as you probably know has an affinity for water, not to mention that it has absolutely no redeeming value as a fuel additive whatsoever. Just ask the owners of outboards, lawnmowers, weed eaters, etc. here, myself included about E-10 fuel, I am sure that you will get less than glowing praise.
Chevron is THE only supplier of bulk gasoline here in the islands, they in turn sell it to refiners like Shell and Union oil here, who in turn blend in their own additives.
BTW, a gallon of premium here in Honolulu averages $3.60 a gallon, on Maui it has been as high as $4.10 a gallon.........ah the price we pay to live in paradise.
All in all, the truck has been very dependable, the only unusual problems it has had was a bad speed sensor in the 3rd. member and ball joints that went bad after only 45k miles. I attribute the latter to the woeful condition of Oahu's roads, be sure to rent a Town Car and bring a kidney belt along when you do visit, yes the roads here ARE that bad.
Will let you know about the eng lube issue, Thanks again bud......
DKBLURANGER

I have had the begining of this and have found the following minimizes the problem:
Use Mobil One 0w30 oil with a Motorcraft filter. Pre fill the filter, wait, then prefill it again untill it is full. Once a month add fuei injector cleaner if you use cheep gas.
I have a 99 with the 4.0 with about 110k on it and i found the noise acually got better and went way. I don't know if this always works but I don't even notice it now.

Probably just a typo, did you mean 10W-30 oil?

Nope, mobil one 0w30 oil. It has a full grey label on it and it flows like water when you first start up. I have seen a castrol version of the 0w30 as well, but tend to use the mobil version.
try the following for more info:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...l_1_0W-30.aspx

Wow, I guess you can teach an old dog some new tricks ktmbk. I will check it out, btw, where are you located?
Driving environment and temperature here (Hawaii) , may be an issue for me to use such a light viscosity lube.
You say that your engine just started this 'marbling' noise? My 4.0 has done it, tho not as bad as it is now, since new.....11/99.
Thanks for the response bud....
DKBLURANGER

I live in NY, out on Long Island. It gets cold here, but not as cold as many people would think. The noise really got noticable at about 70K or 80k for me. I always have used synthetic since my second oil change in the 5w30 grade, I still do when the 0w30 isn't around. I noticed a difference the first time I tried the 0w30. It's worth a try. One caution - if you have a oil leak or think you may have one - using synthetic oil will find it.
Funny though, I wanted to go to Hawaii on my honeymoon.

Some reading to show we aren't the only guys with noisey pushrod 4.0L engines.
This fellow had the very same thing happen to him on his first oil change, that happened to me!!!!

4.0L marble noise thread from 04, https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...il-change.html

Ford Dealer Memo in PDF foemat, about a lot of things, including why the 4.0L isn't to use 5w-20.
You'll have to scroll down about 75% of the way, to find them talking about why the 4.0L isn't speced for 5W-20.
http://www.dantheoilman.com/fordoilfaq.doc

Tweaks huh?
 

I remember many (hundreds) of 85-86 302's installed in passenger cars with a distinct piston slap noise, brand new cars, to be exact.
It seems as though the 'tweakers' in engineering, no doubt under pressure from the Ford bean counters, where ordered to 'lighten' these engine blocks.
I use the term lighten lightly, Ford wanted to save money on each block by shaving off material wherever they could. This led to reduced rigidity in the block by material being shaved off from casting webbings supporting the crank and other areas.
Well, it seems as though when these 'new age' blocks came down the production line and had the head bolts zapped in them, they would twist slightly, much like a pretzel. This cause all sorts of probems with the block torsional rigidity, pistons actually started to wobble in each bore!
Of course, the only way to fix this was to replace the entire engine, the service area parking lot was filled with engineless Grand Marquis and Twn. Cars !
A buddy of mine who then worked at a Ford agency recalls at least 50 Galaxies & Crown Vics dead in their service area, many of them being the local cop shop cruisers, the folks at HPD where not amused......
So, it seems as tho the 'tweakers' where at it again with the 4.0, this time with pistons.
Ford tells us the noise is normal, well you know what I have to say to that, (expletive deleted). When a burger flipper at MickeyD's makes a comment on my motor's lube situation, well thats just wrong......lol
I guess we should be happy that we own trucks with dual fuel features, runs on gas, but sounds like a diesel.........
Thanks Ford !