Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - Bumper pull trailer vs. payload. I need to learn

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php)

- Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum286/)

- - Bumper pull trailer vs. payload. I need to learn (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/678481-bumper-pull-trailer-vs-payload-i-need-to-learn.html)

Bumper pull trailer vs. payload. I need to learn

I have a 2001 F-350 CC LB 4x4 with the 7.3L diesel. I also have a 8.5x20' enclosed car hauler trailer. The tag on the side of the trailer says it weighs 3200 lbs, which I know is aproximate. Its probably more like 3400-3500. Anyway, this past weekend, I put 2-2k pound palets (4000 pounds (holy crap!!!)) in the bed of my truck and drove it back from up north. I couldnt BELIEVE how well it rode, and furthermore, how well it accelerated and decelerated. Now, when I pull my trailer, even empty, I know there is something back there. My question(s): why would my truck not notice the weight as much with it sitting in the bed as when I am pulling a trailer that weighs less?? I know wind resistance, but the I feel it even at take off, where there would be minimal wind resistance. Rolling resistance maybe??? Second question: I am wanting to get a 5th wheel camper soon. Is this how it will be pulling that, I mean with the tongue weight in the bed instead of at the bumper? I have heard that it feels like its not even back there. I hope there is somebody out there that can explain this so I can learn something new that I use pretty often. Thank you! Aaron

Aaron, I know you will get a better answer, but all you added was the weight. With the trailer you add the weight, 4 more tires rolling, wind drag etc. it all adds up.

John :-X06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyhrdford

The tag on the side of the trailer says it weighs 3200 lbs, which I know is aproximate.

I think that weight is really low. I'll bet if you weighed the trailer you would find it weighs a lot more than 3200 pounds.

Yes the truck will ride better with a fifthwheel. It is also a safer hitch system, and much faster to hook up. Along with the manuverabilty with the pivot point being in the bed instead of at the rear of the truck. You will still know that it is there, with the wind resistance and extra tires on the ground.

Toyman

I have pulled trailers with the bumper hitch and fifth wheel campers and I prefer the fifth wheel system,it is easier to hook up plus cornering and backing up is much easier for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyhrdford

Aaron,
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
WIND RESISTANCE plays a much larger role in towing than most realize. I’ve posted numerous times over on RV.net to the ‘toy’ boyz (tundra and titan) that believe the ‘ratings’ of over 10K#’s on their ½ tons. My V10 Ex when equipped with 3.73’s is only rated at 9600#’s…but their little small block V8 with less HP and Trq is rated ‘higher’…and they believe it…I tell them that hook up 10,000#’s of cinder block or cement sacks on a LOW wind profile trailer and it will likely pull it ‘okay’ around town. Hitch up a HIGH wind profile TT or 5’r with a WALL up front of 10-12’ at its peak and 8’ wide…that is a HUGE hole to punch thru the air. I give this example…most have successfully tried and carried a 4x8 sheet of plywood by themselves…most have foolishly tried and failed to carry that same 4x8 sheet of plywood in 25mph winds! …the point is…wind BLOWS! LOL<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
I’d say what you have experienced is ‘normal’. Your tag on your trailer that states 3200# is LIKELY the DRY weight…before you add any cargo. Does it indicate anything like ‘dry’ or does it list it as GVWR??? BUT even if DRY, that trailer still presents the added wind load…so pound for pound…if that 3200# trailer is being compared to your 4000#’s of weight…you have likely added more load to your truck with the trailer. PLUS where the load is concentrated…with the pallets…it is OVER the rear axle and concentrated as a 5’r pin weight would do. That is MUCH MORE stable than a bumper pulled trailer that ‘hangs’ behind the axle.<O:p</O:p

If your trailer truly is ‘dry’ does it have sufficient tongue weight? … Sufficient tongue weight is defined as 10-15% of the trailer weight. If you load a ball pulled trailer with less than 10% as tongue (i.e. tail heavy)…it will wag and be very uncontrollable. Plus the shear nature of how the trailer ‘acts’ or ‘imparts’ forces on your truck is TOTALLY different over the pallets or 5’r. That’s why folks claim the 5’r tows so nicely…~20% of the loaded 5’r is pin weight…that pin weight is concentrated over the rear axle…the TV does not have large cantilevered forces PUSHING and PULLING on it causing all kinds of yaw. BUT where people fail to share information on towing a 5’r is the BANGING associated with the forces of the pinbox pushing down and pulling up right behind you…an air ride box certainly helps…but the towing dynamics shift from a yaw (side to side) effect to a possible bucking up and down effect over rough roads…many neglect to share that piece…but I’d prefer a stable ride from sway over comfort ride from bounce…but that’s just me...

<O:p</O:pI think what you have experienced is perfectly normal…the added weight with out wind resistance…I have not really noticed much of a mpg hit going from my 7500# TT to my 9000# TT…I think once your engine overcomes the wall of resistance…weight on flats is pretty moot…now get on serious grades…well…that’s why I say you ‘tow’ on flats and ‘haul’ up grades…IMO that wind resistance on flats is what most simply forget about…I know the truck mfg’s do…the toy boyz REALLY believe their toy can out pull a V10…No one has taken me up on hitching up 10K# TRAVEL TRAILERS and hauling some hills though!

<O:p</O:p

Does this help?...<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

Joe.<O:p</O:p

As for the riding and handling better, that is what you will get with a bed hitch over a bumper hitch. On a bumper pull, the rear axle will act as a pivot progressively as the load on the rear springs increase, in turn, actually lifting the weight off the front wheels.
This will give you the squirrelly feeling, bad braking , as the weight transfers to the back, the front brakes are designed to do 60% or so of the total braking, the weight is not there to keep grip on the tires contact patch, the back brakes are then promoted to primary brakes and they are 40% of the truck braking capability.
Steering, again contact patch of the tires on the road. Less contact patch, less effective steering.
Now as for a bed mount hitch (gooseneck/5th wheel), they are mounted in such a way to be able to transfer weight up to the front end. More effective braking and better steering.
This why you were able to "feel" the truck running better, performing easier, and stopping better. The weight you were caring put weight up on the front axle.
Weight distributing hitches were invented just for this reason. They are designed to put some of the bumper weight toward the front of the towing vehicle.

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. This is VERY good information, and I now understand things better. I knew about the wind resistance, but I didnt realize it played THAT important of a role. How much better would it handle if I were to get one of those "wings" to go on the cab?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyhrdford

How much better would it handle if I were to get one of those "wings" to go on the cab?

I've read very mixed results...I've seen 1-2 mpg gains reported but also 0mpg gains reported...I would have thought some benefit...but I'm not convinced yet...one way or another...

Some hotshotters (RV haulers) over on RV.net have reported no improvements for the money invested...

I think that one is one of those debated topics...although MUCH LESS passionately than some of the others! :-D

joe.