I'll admit up front I'm not a Powerstroke expert.

But....

What is the stumbling block in making a 4v set of head for the 7.3? Effectively, that is what Cummins did with the 5.9. Same cam, same number of pushrods. The rocker arm actuates 2 valves with a tiebar(wrong term but gets the idea across). That over simplified but....

well i want the 7.3 back just because of the reliability and because i've heard that even though the 6.0's and 6.4's have more hp and tq that you really don't notice it until the turbo spools up, while the 7.3's have all that grunt pretty much straight from the engine.... but yeah the 7.3 is a pretty dirty engine and would take LOTS of R&D to be as clean as the 6.0's and 6.4's

Yea, that would be cool. A 7.3L with 4 valves/cylinder and a common rail fuel system. On the down side, you'd have to add EGR valves and DPFs to it now-a-days. That stinks...no pun intended.

Unless someone developes a viable aftermarket head for the older blocks. Then you just have to meet the EPA regs for that year, and then only if it is to be street legal.

YEah, the 7.3 is dead, not only won't it meet emisssions, it is quite frankly too underpowered to compete with the newest offerings for deisel pickups. I love my 7.3 to death, it's coming up on it's 300,000K B-Day, and still doesn't use oil between changes despite a wet spot coming down the back of the motor (I'm scratching my head on that one), but the 6.0's I've driven will eat a stock 7.3, and give my chipped 7.3 a good run for it's money, and do it towing anything you can throw at it. Back to the thread, I've never driven one (A Duramax), but there are very few people who are not impressed with the power of the things, too bad they come in a Chebby. Spec for spec, they are very close to the 6.0, I'm willing to bet after break in on both of 'em they are close. Similar specs with a little more displacement to the Chebby. And a little less weight I hear too, no?

Good post but the last Dmax is not "very close" "spec for spec".

30 HP and 80 pound feet of torque advantage to the GM....unfortunately.

Add the 6 speed Allison and the gasser like personality and it's the best diesel drivetrain out there. (I have not driven a 6.4 yet)

Too bad it's not available in a Super Duty.

I figured that within 10% for the HP is fine, but if that's the torque, I guess it falls outside my criteria for close .

I think it's 570#'s vs 650#........ :eek:

The 650# is only in the later 2006 LBZ. Before that it was only 605 lbft from what I was reading the other day.

Also included the 6 speed Allison...........just a GREAT drivetrain.

I agree. I get to drive these things on a near-daily basis. The drivetrain in the Duramax-equipped trucks has been second to none since 2004.5 model. The LLY Duramax and 5 speed Allison were near-impossible to beat. The 6 speed is nice, but the 5 and 6 speed are the same tranny. The only differences are in a few thrust washers that are bearings now, the valve body, and the angle of the gear cut on the planetaries to reduce noise. Other than that, all the Allison does for the 6th gear is release the 3-5-R clutch and re-engage the 2 (-6) clutch while the 4-5(-6) clutch stays engaged.

However, I have seen over the last 6 years of working on these things that even though the LB7 (first gen. d-max '01-04.5) was kind of a dog, that loyalists love them because they were the only incarnation that COULD exceed 18-20 MPG. Sure, they were a little lazy off the line, but at the time, the best Ford could do was 235-250 HP out of the 7.3. The D-max debuted with 300!! Add in that the BEST Ford automatic transmission was a real POS (to be nice) with approximately 2.5:1 1st and reverse gear. The Allison reduction in 1st/reverse is about 4:1.

But this is a discussion of d-max vs. 6.0.

Ford NEEDS a RELIABLE clutch-to clutch 6 speed automatic behind their Powerstrokes. Bands and numerous roller/one way clutches are antiquated and not durable enough to handle these 600+ ft.lb. trucks that are available.

Yes, the Duramax is a rocket when unloaded. It's lighter, has a more car-like front suspension, has a lower center of gravity, and has a race-car engine in it, BUT.............

[personal opinion on]
The 03-07 grilles are UGLY ('bout as bad as "downs syndrome" '08 superduty), they are too-quick handling (like a car), and they don't have a solid front axle.

I thought about trading in my '01 Superduty for an 07 Classic Duramax. However, I wrote down a list of pros and cons and decided not to go that route.

Ford Pros:
Looks AMAZING!
Drives GREAT..loose steering, doesn't wander, doesn't wear tires funny.
Enough power to pull nearly 20K lbs. a few times a month.
NEVER had ANY kind of repairs to ANYTHING!! It's had all fluid changed at regular 45K mile intervals.
STELLAR mileage. Capable of 20.5 or better and normally averages 19.

Ford cons:
Payments are as much as a new D-max.
Has 4R100 automatic:-rip
It's a shortbox
Will need wheel bearings, ball joints, and a transmission sooner than later.

Chevy Pros:
Same monthly payment
Long box
Lots of power
ALLISON
Ummm................

Chevy cons:
Ugly
Inferior front suspension
Steering TOO tight. Can't even sneeze without crossing the white and yellow lines.
Ugly
Worse mileage. Most reports from people in this area range from 13 to 16 MPG max. I did my homework.

That's the way I feel. Sorry I can't really post any useable data for the 6.0 Powerstroke since I know enough people who own one (or have owned one and gone back to a 7.3 or the darkside) that won't own another one.

It's too bad that each manufacturer has something that the other one needs........

Hey Bud, you still have your 12???


Notice I complimented the Dmax "drivetrain"....what I thought funny was all the knocks about the Dmax being sluggish by people who hadn't ever driven the LBZ/6speed.........night and day difference.


I've said on more than one occasion that a perfect truck would be a pre-'08 Super Duty with a Dmax/Allison.............of course, it would have to be at a V10 price!!!.... :-D :-D

I actually like the GMC looks the best at the moment......so maybe a GMC with Ford suspension???


You seem to have forgotten more about transmissions than I'll ever know, but I have a fairly reliable friend who was a Ford tech, owned his own shop, now works at Shelby. He always trys to explain the good, bad and ugly concerning Ford transmissions.....one of the few guys that actually likes the AOD when built properly.

He tried to explain the 4100R shortcomings were MOSTLY caused because of low line pressures behind the diesels.........(even though I, too, have fragged a 4100R behind my V10. Thank God for xtended warranties!!) but I do understand what you're saying about being old school.

Yep. Putting miles on it all the time. I'm up to almost 23K.


Yeah, the LB7 is a far cry from the LBZ and even the LLY. The two later engines were far superior as far as noise and driveability. However, the LB7s give me something to do at work most of the time. 200K mile warranty on the injectors @ 8 hrs. a set.


I agree fully. The Duramax has proven to be one hell of a durable and potent powerplant. Want to know how many mechanical failures I've seen in the last 6 years? Two. Both due to chips being run while towing and scoring cylinder walls. I've seen lots of other pictures of broken valvetrain bits due to ether and pour-in treatments.


I have only torn apart one Allison for a mechanical failure on a stock truck. It was a piece of thrust washer out of the torque convertor that lodged in the valve body. Woo hoo. No broken input shafts or one way clutches (the Allison only has one of those anyway).

The Allison shifts great. Positive, quick, and most of all, reliably. The only real problem I have with the Dmax/Allison combo is that I can't get either one of those things in my Ford.

Thanks for the rep.

Come now Cody. If people can find a way to shoehorn a 12v into a Bronco or mate an Allison behind a 24vCR, then I'm sure you could find a way to get that combo installed in your Ford. :D

Yeah, sure. The real headache isn't making it fit....it's running all of the electronic systems. I'd have to have a COMPLETE donor truck and probably spend 100 hours splicing harness. ..UGH