Batgeek:

I sure hope they call it something else. Ford's modern names always struck me as a bit dumb... well no, really dumb. "Quiet steel" "Torque Shift" "Powerstroke"

I wish the PSD was just "International." If Nissan uses an International engine, it would be nice to see a small International badge on the truck. But then again, Nissian has their own collection of lame names like "Endurance" V-8.

They all sound like names dreamed up by an ad agency to promote sexual enhancement drugs.

-Mike

Whoa there Cowboy... let us not pretend that the problems with GM and Ford are ENTIRELY due to labor relations. Large failures are rarely the result of single problem. For example, you might cut labor costs but still have a crap product if it was poorly designed and engineered.

You are correct in that legacy costs are hard on GM these days- And the new competitors do not have such costs- But to be fair, GM & Ford did not lose share just because their product was more expensive- A lot of consumers have come to the conclusion that other people do a better job designing and engineering their products. -That is not the union's fault. And companies that have been negotiation in good faith with the unions have done much better in the long term because the employees trust the management not to sell them short and then fail to invest the savings in R&D- An investment the "foreign" firms have traditionally been much more willing to make on a long term basis than the old and failing "domestics". The failure to invest and the desire of boards' to pay dividends (witness GM last quarter) rather look long term in not the fault of the unions. There is a reason why Ford must buy hybrid technology from Toyota-


My point is that while you are correct, these union-legacy costs are high, they are not the sole cause of the decline of old school US manufactures.


Respectfully,
-Mike

Yes unions cannot except all the blame for why our "domestic" companies are having so many problems as of late.Unions do have to share some of the blame but they are just one nail in a big coffin. Fingers can be pointed in many directions managment, government, media, and hell alot of people are blaming the consumer. What I can't understand is Ford does very well in other markets in the world. In some they even offer products that are in many ways more inovative than what they sale here. In the link I posted earlier there is an article about a Brazilian Ford Ranger that come with a Powerstroke engine. It would meet all the emission regulations and get great MPGs, but they won't sell it here. When you look at what Ford and GM are doing around the globe that they are not doing here you would sware they are giving away the US market.

Ford has also had a large English presence for decades, if not most of the 20th century.

Very few of their Euro-cars ever make it here (remember the Merkur? That was a Mazda/Euro-Ford sold through Mercury dealers - originally called a Granada in UK (Scorpio), etc). VERY different than the US cars. Although, I've heard Merkurs could be gotten with a 2.3 Turbo - sounds familiar - OH YEAH! the T-bird Turbocoupe.

Powerstroke in a Ranger? I hope it wasn't a big 7.3 or 6.0 ;) You'd need slicks to get the power to the ground ...

I have often marveled at Ford products available overseas while I have been traveling. In argentina I came across a "F150" that was designed to look like the US SD trucks. The little truck had a 4 banger Cummins B series engine. While that is a cheap diposable dirty little motor (yes, I know because we run them in gen sets and forklifts) it is economical and looked like a nece set up in that truck. My first thought was "damn, why can't we get that set up?"

But upon closer inspection, the truck we have is a much better piece of equipment. And thanks to Argentine trade / tax policy- that little truck cost over 30k in 1998!

When I was in Europe I always came across the Ford sedans and thought "wow, we need that in the US!" But then they came to the US and as you recall, the Mercur was a real piece of crap.

So, while Ford does have significant market share in other nations, it never seems to be in nations with an open and competitive market. You don't see Ford displacing established manufactures in mature markets- but you do see a lot of Ford in emerging (for lack of a better term) 3rd world economies.

But to the extent that there are truely innovative Ford products in otehr markets that we do not have access to, my statement above fails. For example, I hear about Ford diesels that are not bad motors that we do not have access to.

I think that it may come down to the fact that many of the International subsidaries have a corporate culture of their own- the are more like their own seperate companies than they are like FoMoCo US.

And from what I have been reading in the trade press, the corporate culture in Ford (and GM) is really a mess- according to those who doubt the probibility of the big 2 of surviving, they say that the culture is so beaucratic and lacking innovation, that they will not be able to change dramatically enough to compete.

There is some truth to this in at least the abstract sense. As companies (and governments) grow, they tend to get fat, lazy and unresponsive while losing those employees who brought spark, innovation and ideas to the firm.

These companies / govenments need to be reinvented, shaken up, and turned around by dramatic processes. Maybe the foreign subsidaries are still young and innovative enough to bring products to market that people want-

it is interesting that while I read this 800 page book about the history of Ford- the company today looks and feels nothing like the glory days.

I think the key to the future is things getting bad enough for the ford family to be willing for some serious blood-letting before it is too late.

I think Nasser was on the right track- And I think that history will find that the family just didn't have the stomach for what needed to happen.

Time will tell.

Meanwhile, it looks like Nissan will beat the big old Blue giant to a nice market with the 1/2 diesel.

-Mike

Batgeek, Armada.................give it up.

They'll never get it.

In fact, one goofball (won't mention names.......but I think he like guns) gave me a negative rep. because "I lied to him" when I said my Super Duty was made in Mexico.

This EXACT topic comes up a few times a year and the xenophobes can't grasp publicly traded compaines or the fact the big 2 actually sell rebadged imports.

IMO Ford is showing innovation in the Thunderbird, Mustang, Shelby Cobra, F150, 500, Fusion, Explorer, Escape Hybrid. We define innovation as "The creation or introduction of something new, especially a new product or a new way of producing something." When you look at the new Mustang, do you not see innovation? How about the SuperDuty and it's TowCommand system? Look at the Fusion, is that innovative styling? I'm not saying Ford is the best at everything and I see the world sometimes through blue oval glasses, but the fact remains they are innovating more and more each year. The process is in place and time will tell how it works out, but I'd like to not 'bash' Ford by making baseless claims.

Companies change, they have high times and low times, its all in how they adjust to their failures that make them successful.

Point taken, the tow command system is the most inovative thing Ford has or anyone has come up with years. The Thunderbird and Mustang I really can't agree with they just went with the retro styling that the other manufacturers have been doing for years on existing platforms. The Escape Hybrid is inovative but it's using tech they are buying from somebody else, they did not come up with it themselves. The F150 and the Explorer they just keep reskinning to change the way they look, they are still the same truck underneath. The Fusion and 500 I really like they are using newer tech in them and to build them. They are going in the right direction with those cars they just need to improve their marketing. They could give the other manufacturers a run for their money. All and all I beleive Ford is starting to move in the right direction they seem to be phasing out some of the dated models, engines, and platforms out of their line up.

The F-150 truck is completely different from previous generations. An '03 and '04 truck are completely different in very many ways.

Hey, its the truth. I used to sell these things at a local Ford dealer and honestly most folks who walked in wanting a Super Duty just wanted it because it was a big ass truck. Their "trailers" may have been a bass boat or small travel trailer but basically it was nothing that a 4 liter Ranger or 4.6L F-150 couldn't handle. But neither of those trucks would have sported the "bad ass" image that somehow went along with driving a 4x4 Crew Cab 250. Of course most of them could hardly afford to make the payments and were often taking out 60 and 72 month loans just to bring the payments down to something that allowed them to make insurance payments every month as well.

However, with gas prices being what they are today, I'm sure there are alot of folks who re-evaluate the position of buying the biggest thing they can find on the lot.

I agree wholeheartedly with bart. A large portion of full size pickup owners and almost all SUV owners dont need them. I smell a conspiracy with the SUV craze and the raising of the national speed limit. Seemed like it was only weeks later when we were getting into the reserves. Those reserves are there for a reason.
There is a good reason to buy a fullsize diesel. Resale. Durability, efficiency and reliability have all seemed to have taken a dump lately but that resale is second to none. I dont think mercedes or lexus hold their value as well as a diesel pickup from the big three.
A diesel titan would actually fit my needs very very well. I hope it turns out to be a winner.

I have a 2004 F-150. I have absolutely no need of any kind of diesel right now. But that will probably change in the future. And with price of new trucks seemingly skyrocketing, the next truck I buy will be the last one for a long time. Now I've had Fords my whole life and have had some real pieces of junk. My best friend has had Nissans his whole life and he has 2 with over 350,000 miles on them. If Nissan can build a competitive truck for less, I'll buy one. Granted, if it's only $1k, I'll buy the Ford. But if it's $4k-$5k, I'll take the Nissan. People should never confuse brand loyalty with stupidity. Just because it's Ford don't mean it won't break and just cause it's Nissan don't mean it will break. I'm sure I'll get accused of being a traitor to the oval but the truth of the matter is no company anywhere builds a truck that I would want more than my 1994 Bronco.

Anyone have a clue what the curb weight for the new "1 ton" Titan 4x4 is?

I bet it's going to be in the 4000-4500 range.

MAYBE 5000...

The current 4x4 models range from 5100-5300 lbs.