Want to rebuild/improve a 1993 460, know of a kit avail?
 

I have ~180000 miles on my 1993 F350 fuel injected 460 engine (5 speed manual trans, 4x4). The motor is starting to act and sound like it's up for a rebuild sometime soon. I primarily use the truck to haul a slide in truck camper while towing a trailer behind. I wouldn't mind getting a little more power out of the engine (RV cam?, maybe a blower? (if I can scrape up the cash!)). Does anyone know of a company that sells a block rebuild kit for this motor? Overall, I would like to upgrade the rods, pistons, put in an RV cam, and install mild performance heads with better valves etc. I was thinking that I would rebuild the short block myself and purchase complete heads.

Any opinions/comments/suggestions would be appreciated!

Weigh the cost between getting the original shortblock rebuilt.....and getting anew shortblock crate from FOrd....some shortblocks don't come with cams....so get a custom grind to match the heads ability to flow air.

then concentrate on the aluminum ford racing "cobra jet" heads....and have the intake ports portmatched by a professional.....

then you can have the diablo chip made for the added airflow.

and hold on to yer pants!!!

rdcouch

Paw performance 818-678-3000 offers many kits, keep in mind, I have heard bad and good things about this company, more good so far. They offer engine kits which include the block and heads. They offer any kit you can think of, from a 289--460-- a stroked 460 putting out 521 cubic inches, they even sell blower kits. For $8 they will send you a book that is literally almost 3 inches thick, full of everything you can think of, the prices are hit and miss, some are good others not so much. The engine kits are pretty fair, IMO. Check with a local machinist/ speed shop and see what kinda prices he/she might quote you on work. The stock heads would probably serve you well with a mild port job and three angle valve job, not to mention be a lot cheaper. If they rework your heads and resurface the crank and bore the block, etc. you can find piston kit just about anywhere. www.nothernautoparts.com www.summitracing.com www.jegs.com You might look at comp cams for a cam, they have many options a few people on this site seem to like them, just give them a call and let them know what you have and what you want it to do. Don't forget headers, might consider lower gears. Just a thought

Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

jwtaylor, I have the PAW catalog. You are right, lots of goodies in there! The trouble is finding smog legal products for the '93 460 engine.

Capone, I'm definately going to check out what Ford has to offer.

I'll post the part numbers, prices, etc when I finish the rebuild, in case others are interested in doing the same project.

Hey rdcouch, I have a 95 f-250 with a 460 that I'm replacing with a 521. Check out the thread "Who makes good engine kits" for all the particulars. Perhaps I can shave off some of your research time.

as long as you use your stock intake, don't go radical with the cam, keep the final compression around 9 (unless you don't want to run pump gas), Banks makes a bolt on aftermarket exhaust that is smog legal (pricey) Pro Topline makes a set of aftermarket fast burn heads that will pass smog (truth is they are almost identical to the stock, with a redesigned water jacket, but I was told a better head to port) keep your stock valve covers (or keep the stickers from the originals and put them on the new ones). It will allow you to pass the visual inspection. The stock ECM is an EEC_IV. In 96 they went to the V. You will have to check the code on the outside of the ECM to see if it is one the aftermarket chip folks have scanned. Chances are, it's not been scanned unless they used the same ECM in a mustang. The good news is, you can get a chip burned for it, and it's painless. Check out the Chip forum for more details on that.

I was told my 521 (460 bored .30 over, and stroked .45) will have no problem passing CA smog requirements, and I'm expecting around 450-500 hp, 600 - 650 lbs of tq.

Hope this helps, and good luck, keep us informed of your progress.

521_Ford

Oh, one more thing that will give you an increase in power. Be sure to replace the stock timing set with a pre 73 timing set. There is 8° built into your stock one, pre 73's didn't. be sure to set the new cam in at 0° also, approx. a 40 hp increase. If you do this, you will definately need to have a performance chip burned, because the stock ECM will be pulsing the fuel injectors at the incorrect time! Chances are, it will not even start without adding the chip.

521_Ford

521_Ford,

Thanks for all the info! It's great to have feedback from those that have "been there-done that".

I'll check out the "Who makes good engine kits" thread like you suggested. I'm very interested to see how well your 521 does during the emission testing. Any idea when your project will be complete?


rdcouch

Rdcouch,

The motor will be here on the 23rd. I called the builder today; he told me all the parts are in, and they are ahead of schedule, so it will definitely be here on or before the 23rd of this month (refreshing news). Everything else that I have ordered with the exception of the BBK 61mm TB and the 36lb injectors are here. I am, or was, not sure which, looking forward to firing it up on the 24th. The Diablo Chip has become an issue as of today; they don't have a scan on file of my DOE0 ECM (not so refreshing news!). Be sure to allow ample time for the chip, I thought a month would be plenty after being told the average wait time is around 10-14 days. It appears I could be held up by the chip, which is really going to suck. The only dyno shop that’s close is really booked, and I have 3 hours reserved for the 26th.

Motorhaven.com called me today to tell me that I have to mail them my ECM to get a read on it before a chip could be burned. They are in GA (Could they be any further away? ok, FL is further). I asked if a Diablo dealer here in CA could read it, they said they would check and get back to me. I'm hoping to hear from them tomorrow.

As far as the emission testing, my plan is to have the truck emissions tested next week (it's due next month anyway) with the stock 460. It passed nicely last time around, so I expect no problems. It's just a safety blanket really, I'm optimistically confident the 521 will pass also, but this gives me 2 years to make sure.

One last note on the Banks exhaust, it’s all stainless, but the torque tubes and the Y pipe do not look stainless at all! In fact, they looked liked your average every day cold rolled steel (in my opinion ugly, nothing like the pretty polished ones in the pictures). So I sent them out for ceramic coating. The ceramic coating was done inside and out with a coat that makes them look a soft transparent white and they are very pretty. Ceramic coating is win win as far as I'm concerned, good looks, lose 100 or more degrees of heat under the hood, more heat directed at the CAT (good for emissions testing), and they claim because of the increase in flow and keeping the exhaust heat in the exhaust system, an increase in hp of 10%.

When do you intend to start your build?

521_Ford,

I checked out your engine details in the "who makes good engine kits? " thread. You have gotta be pretty excited about getting that motor in and running!! Too bad about the chip delay though.
Murphy's Law states that your truck won't be ready for the dyno appointment!

I also looked at the speed-o-matic website. They have some great products listed. I now have a couple of questions though.

The first is the fact that most of the performance products that I see on the market are stated not legal for use on pollution controlled motor vehicles. Does anyone really care about this? My local mechanic has suggested I check out Ford Racing Performance Parts for a 460 short or bare block. I did....they have a nice one of each...but they both aren't legal for use on pollution controlled vehicles! So, should I avoid them or will anyone really know/care if I put one into my truck? I assume that the emissions output of the truck will be increased, but do you know if that is actually true? (You might be better able to answer that question after you get your 521 tested!)

The second question that I have is what kind of compression ratios are suitable for street use? Some of the engines listed on the speed-o-matic website have pretty high ratios (>9.5:1). I find in my current truck that not all premium fuels are created equal (I always run high octane fuel because the engine will knock with any less). I can get engine knock with certain brands of high octane fuels, but not with others (obviously I buy the brands that don't knock). I'd be worried that this problem would be worse with a high compression engine. I don't want to have to add a can of octane boost with every fill!

Thanks again for all the info!

rdcouch

rdcouch

I am not 521_ford but I can offer a little commentary on your questions. Higher compression actually allows the motor to operate more efficiently, so the highest you can go (assuming your goal is naturally aspirated) won't do anything but improve your engine, emissions and power wise, given proper tune. YOur engine and its inability to run certain grades of fuel now, probably has more to do with the computer and tune than your compression ratio.

A stroker kit is another thing that would allow for improved power and not hurt emissions.

YOu might check into why the heads are listed as non emission legal, it probably has something to do with the ability to hook up the current emissions equipment, to the head itself. Kinda like performer and performer rpm heads from edelbrock, they are the same cylinder head, only difference is the performer has the emission drilled the rpm doesn't and is considered non emmisons legal as opposed to the performer. Just a thought, later

The ECM gods must be looking out for me! After speaking with Jolene at Motorhaven.com today, they accidentally read a 0 for an O. They have my ECM code on file, and sent my info off to Diablo today! Back on track again, looks like I might sidestep ole’ Murphy” on this one!

JW threw out some good info; I'll throw my 2 bits in.

Speed-O-Motive will build you pretty much anything you ask for. They told me the website displays just a few of the popular examples of what they build. Call them and talk to August, he is who I am dealing with over there, and he seams to really knows his business.

Just like you it seems, my first concerns were emissions. I didn't want to sink a bunch of money into a motor that I couldn't use in CA. Here is what I found; most everybody will throw the disclaimer about the emissions. You have to take each item on a case by case basis. For example, I found Comp. cams have the disclaimer on all or 99% of their cams for the 460. As long as you don't go too radical on the lift and duration, you won't run into any issues (can't see the cam on the visual inspection). As JW points out with the heads, lots of stuff bolts on to those darn things that are emissions related. I could only fine one place that sells heads that are emissions friendly, Protopline.com.

Don't forget, they don't just put the sniffer in the tail pipe when you get your truck tested; there is a visual test it must pass. I recommend you talk with your local mechanic, and see if you can get a copy of the check list he must perform when doing an emissions test. Just an example for you is the valve covers. There is a sticker on the driver’s side valve cover that shows the vacuum diagram for your truck, and that is one of the items they check for.

On the compression, if you talk to five people, you will probably get 4 different answers. I was told not to exceed 9.5:1 final compression if I wanted a daily driver that runs pump gas. There are several things to consider when deciding on the final compression. It seems to me, you have to come to a compromise. There are upsides to more compression, but they also come with downsides, and same can be said for lower compression. It really depends on your application you are going to use it for. In my opinion, lower compression equals higher exhaust gas temps, and if you can get that higher temp to the CAT, the CAT will perform better meaning lower emissions (of course, you can go to far, and it will do more harm than good!) on the other hand, more compression means more efficiency, translating into more power.

As far as the fuel, if I understand Ken correctly over at Motorhaven.com, cetane additives can make a huge difference in the quality of fuel. A fuel with a 91 octane rating can be better than another 91 octane just by a higher cetane rating. If I remember correctly, you should seek out fuel with a cetane rating equal to or higher than a 45. But with that in mind, pinging shouldn’t occur at all, regardless if your using 87 octane, or 91 octane. If your owners manual says use 87 octane, that’s what it’s programmed to utilize.

I’m long winded tonight, but I wanted to tell you one more thing. Your ECM I found out is adaptive to your driving style (Yep, the darn thing can learn!) as long as your battery has juice, the adaptive info is stored in a special place in the ECM called the “KAM” (keep alive memory). Disconnect your battery, then turn your headlights on, it will clear the KAM. I couldn’t believe the difference it made; I thought someone put in a shift kit while I was sleeping!

521_Ford

Glad your chip is in the process of development. I would hate to be you, I imagine you feel like your 10 again on christmas eve night, too anxious to go to sleep, in hopes of getting the new toy :). Just kidding.



rdcouch

As 521_ford mentioned when it comes to compression ratio and recommended use, you will get many different ideas. As a perspective, my brother ran a big block with 10.5:1 compression on the good gas with no problems, with the stock iron heads. I would also bet another person around here ran 9.5:1 and complained of detonation/pre ignition :). Crazy, huh? Good luck

jwtaylor

Thanks on the chip issue, it's good to side step "Murphy" once in awhile. The Chip is the last piece of the puzzle missing, the TB and the injectors came today! Accel sure is proud of their 36lb injectors, but I will say, they are pretty.

Actually being me is pretty fun right now thank you! LOL......

The anxious hasn't hit me yet, when I take delivery of the 521 I'm thinking it's going to be just like you described. But yes, it's going to be one great Christmas!

This will be the fourth time I have done something similar (I see a trend forming, they are getting more complicated, and they cost more each time too!)

Are you currently working on any new projects? I say new, because if you’re like me, once you start one, you can’t stop.

521_Ford


Nothing going on here, in the way of projects. I plan on doing a cam swap when it warms up, I am thinking I might be throwing a higher stall converter in the old truck here shortly, but the cold weather is kinda discouraging, being as I don't have a garage, and I would rather no one else touch it. So no, not a thing going on right now. I don't know about you but the anxiety for me doesn't kick in, until I realize the money that was spent. Maybe thats because I am cheap, who knows? Good luck once again, hope all the pieces fall into place. later

I suggest doing some reading on compression. The static compression is not the important number to be concerned with as far as what the octane requirements are. This should get you started and give you a good grasp on it.

http://members.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html