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-   -   F250 lean bank 2, rich bank 1 (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1574540-f250-lean-bank-2-rich-bank-1-a.html)

1Truck 03-05-2019 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by 99f350sd (Post 18522490)
Check the cat.. Do you have one or 2. Start engine run for 15 seconds shut off feel exhaust cyl outlets for heat to see whats not running. will be cooler.

I believe it's just one cat, I dont know tho. My manifolds hook into a y pipe which leads to one cat then on to the muffler. Not sure how to check cats but will research it. And am I checking for heat difference from each cyl or from each bank? I ran it this morning for 10 seconds and bank 1 seemed kinda cold still but it was below freezing so not putting much into it. It will 40 degrees tomorrow after work when I try it again.

1Truck 03-05-2019 10:00 PM

If it's the cats then I'll have it cut out. Wont hurt anything anyway. No emmisions testing here

1Truck 03-06-2019 10:18 PM

Alright, well I replaced all plugs and wiresets. Put bank 2 injectors in bank 1 and vice versa. While replacing cyl 6 plug I noticed it was not tight at all. Obvious problem. Coil wire had over heated, deformed the boot. I say it over heated because the end of the wire was brown instead of silver like the rest. And the porcelain spun independent of the plug. Plug tip looked fine tho.

here is cyl 1
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9b3a7a8617.jpg
I had a mishap with the oil and funnel, didn't realize it was this bad.
6 out of 8 plugs were in good shape. And the one that was broke looked good too really.
coil for cyl 8 had some moisture build up where the wire and boot connect to coil. Which I placed in cyl 5 for easy access if I need to replace it. Boot for cyl 7 looked like the plug had ran too hot on it too. So 6 and 7 both ran hot.
Fuel trims were really weird afterward. Bank 1 low stft normal ltft at idle, bank 2 normal stft high ltft at idle. Bank 1 values reverse while driving, bank 2 normal while driving. There is one injector I put back in on bank 2 that I meant to replace as it has started sound different and it came off of cyl 1. I will be replacing it tomorrow.

Small improvement in performance but still shakes at idle and lacks throttle response but runs smooth as can be when at cruising speeds. It even sounds smoother at an idle but has developed a tick that isn't coming from the valve covers. Tomorrow I will attempt to separate the cat from the exhaust just long enough to see if it makes any difference.
I will also be performing fuel rail pressure test at idle and while driving, as well as a 5 min koeo leak test. Also noticed that the electrical plugs on both the ect and cyl head temp sensors are broke off from the bolt. But they are still connected by the 2 little wires that run thru them. The ect I will replace tomorrow. I'm not sure if I can get to the other one with out removing the intake. If I can just take off the coolant crossover then I could get to it. The intake is the plastic replacement ordered online. I might can get to the sensor with a flex driver.
I swear I hear an air leak but 3 smoke test have reveal no leaks, sound cannot be heard from under the truck. Sounds to the naked ear like it is coming from the intake or the throttle body area but cannot pinpoint it. Hell maybe it's supposed to sound like that. I have nothing to compare it to. I will try to record it tomorrow. Putting a mechanics stethoscope on hoses, intake, throttle body, etc I can hear it most around where the throttle body elbow and from between intake and engine block. Throttle plate appears ok.

Djosbun 03-07-2019 04:16 PM

If you are hearing noises at the intake, donít be surprised if you have a valve that is not seating properly and the stumbling is due to poor compression due to combustion going back up into the intake. I grew up in a machine shop and a few times a year we re-machined/rebuilt brand new rebuilds that had either shoddy machine work or reusing components from previously failed engines.

Save yourself all the trouble and check compression at each cylinder. I hope for your sake I am wrong.

ó Dave

1Truck 03-07-2019 06:50 PM

Ect and cht switched?
 
I replaced the ect, maf, and fuel pressure regulator. No improvement. But I ran into a potential issue. With my ect unplugged, my obd scanner still shows a temp of 190 give or take 10 degrees for the ect. But if I unplug the cht, the ect reading goes to -40.
is it possible I have these two plugs switched around? After replacing the ect, my dash temp gauge has quit working. Defective ect?

Update:
I checked the temp of the head and the coolant crossover then compared that to the temp on the obd reader. The crossover temp was spot on. So I swapped the connectors around but the connector that came off of the ect will not fit the cht. So that means this has been backwards since I bought it.

as far as replacing the cht, that will be 2 jobs as the TB elbow is kinda stuck. 2 of the fasteners just spin in place. So I plan to drill a hole into the side of the plastic to the screw. then place a piece of a nail in the hole and hold it tight using some vise grips then maybe the fastener will have something to grip so itll back out. That's my plan anyhow.

to skip this process, can I just tap into the ect wire and bypass the cht. My understanding is that the cht has no impact on fuel economy unless the head overheats. In the event it exceeds 265 degrees, the pcm shuts off 4 of 8 injectors. I'm afraid that with an open circuit it may cause an issue. The temp reading between the head and the crossover was only 10 degree difference.

I was pulling the connectors off of injectors just to see what it did to fuel trims. Disconnecting one injector affects fuel trim on both banks. So does the fuel injectors all fire at once or sequentially? All at once makes sense. The air leak affecting bank 2 causes the pcm to feed more fuel to both banks. This would cause rich on bank 1 not affected by an air leak and lean on bank 2. Or am I way off?

1Truck 03-07-2019 09:22 PM


Originally Posted by Djosbun (Post 18526049)
If you are hearing noises at the intake, donít be surprised if you have a valve that is not seating properly and the stumbling is due to poor compression due to combustion going back up into the intake. I grew up in a machine shop and a few times a year we re-machined/rebuilt brand new rebuilds that had either shoddy machine work or reusing components from previously failed engines.

Save yourself all the trouble and check compression at each cylinder. I hope for your sake I am wrong.

ó Dave

I seriously doubt there is an issue with my valves. I tested compression before putting engine back in truck. It has the cheap dorman intake on it. I am ordering a new OEM intake from Amazon. Will be here by next weekend. Dorman should explain it all lol.
While I have the intake off I'll be replacing the cht and re-torquing head bolts just for peace of mind.
this is my last post til intake is done unless something some up. Thanks everyone!!!

1Truck 03-14-2019 10:17 PM

Ready to end it with a shotgun
 
Hey guys. Thank you for all your help this far. I got the intake in. Very happy with it. It's a ford intake, not a cheap knockoff. Having put it on the truck, the sound of the air leak is gone. Engine sounded great when I first started the truck, then it seemed like once it entered CL, it started running like crap again but worse. When it was first started the fuel trims read 3.1 for short and 0 for long. But before I got out of the driveway it was back lean b2, rich b1, longs still not set. Only had time to run it once. Oil Leak is coming from valve cover. The gasket may have moved on me. Or hopefully I just forgot to tighten a bolt. Also forgot to clamp down heater hose to crossover so engine got a little bit of spray. Reservoir is still full tho.

being that it ran fine til it entered CL , it points me to bad o2s but I'm positive I replaced one last year and the other one this month or last. Even if I didn't replace the one last year I swapped the o2s around and it made no change.
list of sensors replaced so far:
throttle position sensor
cylinder head temp sensor
engine coolant temp sensor
knock sensor
MAF
at least one o2 sensor (o2 monitors incomplete).

fuel injectors were swapped from bank to bank making zero difference. I will try swapping coils around this weekend. Fuel pressure test ok.
all hoses in good shape and I have added hose clamps to the end of every hose without one.
exhaust leak would cause a lean condition but not a rich condition.
If it were a timing issue wouldn't I get a code?
no coolant in oil or vice versa, no excessive pressure in coolant system, so head gaskets are good.
no air leaks from intake side. Possible exhaust leak at the flange connecting y pipe to exhaust manifold pipe, but wouldn't I be able to clearly hear that?
if my only cat were clogged, I'd get the same reading from both banks unless there was a bad air leak for one side for which I should be able to hear.
fuel delivery does not seem to be an issue. No problems with air intake.
maybe an issue with timing? when I did the timing I made sure my marks were all where they were supposed to be. Lined my links up accordingly. I cranked the engine multiple revolutions by hand to check for valve to cylinder contact.
please, if I have the wrong ideas, or have missed something, say something.
I plan to swap coils bank to bank, test both o2s with multimeter and do a compression test on each cyl. But if it were an issue with compression it would allow oil into the cylinders causing smoke from exhaust, and I have no smoke.
I'm clueless after this other than having the pcm flashed.

1Truck 03-17-2019 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by Djosbun (Post 18526049)
If you are hearing noises at the intake, donít be surprised if you have a valve that is not seating properly and the stumbling is due to poor compression due to combustion going back up into the intake. I grew up in a machine shop and a few times a year we re-machined/rebuilt brand new rebuilds that had either shoddy machine work or reusing components from previously failed engines.

Save yourself all the trouble and check compression at each cylinder. I hope for your sake I am wrong.

ó Dave

Hey Dave, I broke down and did a compression test. Bad news for me. Bank 2 is 150 with one bank being 155. Bank 1 is around 120 on all 4 cyls. What could be the cause of low compression on one side?

99f350sd 03-17-2019 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by 1Truck (Post 18545100)
Hey Dave, I broke down and did a compression test. Bad news for me. Bank 2 is 150 with one bank being 155. Bank 1 is around 120 on all 4 cyls. What could be the cause of low compression on one side?

How about cam timing? 120 is weird.

1Truck 03-17-2019 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by 99f350sd (Post 18545149)
How about cam timing? 120 is weird.

that is what I'm hoping. I was going to do a compression leak down test but the one at harbor freight just didn't seem to be what I needed. The psi max was 100. Not really sure how to do it so taking it to a shop to have that done.

1Truck 03-17-2019 04:45 PM

New thread started
 
Hey guys, being as how I know this is a compression issue I started a new thread that addresses that issue only. Please refer to the link below. Thanks

Low compression bank 1
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1576296-low-compression-on-bank-1-a.html


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