Buying a TT and TV, I'm new and have gone nuts with learning!
 

Hi!

I’m a first timer poster, and have been doing my fair share of lurking on several sites getting myself re-educated I’m a newbie in the TT+TV market and looking at getting a used RV (travel trailer) and a properly equipped TV. Open for any guidance/suggestions/concerns/2 cents/etc… It’s a long post, and I’m wanting to get this right. I thought I’d combine my introduction/history/what we think we want/questions/concerns all in one post! :) Thanks for reading and posting! Sorry mods if I break any rules or post this in the wrong section. Promise free beer on me at the campsite if you get through it!

History
My only TV/RV experience (which was many years ago) was towing a 3400lb jayco popup/tandem. That popup camper box plus hitch/bumper length ran it to about 25’ when towing and was the biggest popup Jayco made. So I was camping with the “King” of popup’s back in the day! It even had a full awning/outdoor grill and screen room attachment. I was also the unfortunate “King” of a hellacious setup and teardown for every camping trip, and I often envied the TT/5iver crowd, (because they were drinking a beer laughing while I was sweating my @$$ off setting up/tearing down in these humid Iowa summers. I tow’d this with a Ford Excursion and it tow’d like it wasn’t even there and I could barely even see it behind me. If that thing ever managed to unhitch itself while towing and go in the ditch, I would have never known until my next turn or until we got to the campsite. Of course this never happened, but I did have a tire blow on the Jayco and it took another passing car to tell me about it (lots of honking and waving/pointing, and here I thought they were just being friendly until I saw the desperation in their eyes while cruising @70mph. Good thing for the tandem setup… :) )

So now I’m older, hopefully wiser, and I am DONE with the popup camper lifestyle, too much work for setup/teardown/drying out the canvas because it rained on the last day of camping, duct taping the canvas, drying it out again because it rained during the 1st dryout session, worrying if I dried it out enough, and drying it out again. Nope. No More!

With a new lease on life; I’m ready to get back into the camping lifestyle; The wife and I both have full time jobs and kids so camping for us will be weekend/vacation adventures during the in season months in the midwest. Okay, on to business!

What we think we want;
Looking at a used TT and TV., and have a budget of 15K for a TT and 30K for a TV, The TV will also be my daily driver.

We really have our minds set on this type of TT -2 slides/private bedroom for us/bunkhouse for the kids/outdoor kitchen

I have thrown out the idea of a 5th wheel as they are just so much more expensive and I can get a much nicer TT for the price, also we aren’t full timers or going cross country every week through the mountains. 95% of our camping will be within a few hours of home in relatively flat Iowa, sadly no beautiful mountain passes to navigate through with the “watch out for falling rocks” signs I remember as a kid.

In my TT 15K budget, there are several nicely used TT’s (about 3-7 years old) that I can find and are usually spec’d up to 36Ft/Dry6500lbs/Max9500lbs (again that is with 2 slides/private bedroom/bunks/outdoor kitchen)

What I think I’ve learned for towing a TT;
After all the “research” and before buying, Find the damn stickers for capacities and understand it all! After buying; goto a scale with all my stuff loaded and verify that!

I wrapped my mind around, GTWR/Max CC Payload/Your real curb weight GVWR GCWR GAWR proper weight dist and proper WD hitch& setup proper tires and PSI, Wheelbase,Tail wagging the dog, Sway control methods. and to get my butt at a scale to verify! I saw several posts explaining that Max tow rating is usually the least of your worries, since you usually hit some other threshold first unless you personally weigh 150lbs and are in the business of towing a flatbed of aerodynamic bricks… This took about 5 days of reading forums/ford fleet docs and wrapping my mind around it to understand all the interactions.

I currently have a F150 2.7EB 4x4Screw with a 1436 payload sticker and that isn’t going to get me anywhere with the camper sizes I’m looking at. It’s currently at the end of it’s lease anyways, so I’ll be getting something different. This is where I’d like to get some advice; My TV will also be my daily driver to work.

My 30K TV budget allows me to either;

1. Lease a new 2018 F150, the only possible option in my mind would be a 2018 F150 3.5EB w/ HDPP, but I think I’d have to downsize the TT length/weight to 27’/7500lbs Max Trailer weight to feel comfortable in all situations. Although I’ve seen posts of guys towing 9000lb+ triple axel 35ft toy hauler trailers with these… These F150’s with the HDPP are hard to find and don’t lease very well, but are very nice trucks. I could also lease a 2018 F150 3.5EB with just the max towing package and lower my rv camper expectations… :(
2. Forgettabout that F150 lease! and go buy a used Super Duty, and get the TT size we like. I’m really liking this option better. It opens up lots of possibilities when looking at the used TT market with a 15K budget, with nice headroom for capacities. Plus, my wife is turned on by the sight of the super duty vs the F150. Happy Wife/Happy Life right? For me, it’s Horny Wife/Happy Life, ;)

Concerns/Questions
I’ve lurked enough around that I see a F350 SRW is a great option for payload capacity/GCWR/GAWR, I’ve found that 250/350’s run about the same price in the used market in regards to year/trim/miles, so I focused on just going with the F350 for the better payload plus whatever extras the F350 give. I would need an Screw/4x4 and then that brings up another choice;

Engine choice: 6.2 Gas or 6.7 Diesel (I will NOT consider an older 6.0 diesel or 6.4 Diesel with all the problems I hear from the internet buzz, that puts me at 2011+ F350’s) I hear that both the 6.2 or 6.7 will do the job just fine and that the 6.7 will get me better mileage and more headroom should I ever decide to go bigger down the road, but require more maintenance over the 6.2 gas. I’ve hear the 6.2 will rev higher and sound louder when under load/accelerating but it’s meant to do that as it doesn’t have the low end torque the 6.7 does which will go quietly about it’s business with lots of juicy torque. I read that 6.7 users are quite happy in the 150K+ miles club with their reliability experience. I haven’t heard anything bad about the 6.2.

My concern is I’m buying used and I’m finding that I can get a 6.2 gas with around 40-80K miles or a 6.7 diesel with 150K+ already on them. I’m liking the 6.2 for no other reason than I can get it with lower miles and my ignorance of diesels. (seems like diesel folks don’t care about 150K+ miles on them, they can last much longer, require more maintenance, maybe tune deleting, and a bunch of stuff I don’t understand)

For example I’m looking at Lariat SuperDuty’s; (All are one owner, carfax clean, these are all asking prices, dealer may haggle) I ‘m not having luck finding a 6.2 gasser with the 4.30 ratio, not sure I’d need it anyways.
2012 4x4 Lariat F350 SRW 6.7 Diesel 3.55 with 172”WB FX4 20in tires, 176K miles for 29K.
2012 4x4 Lariat F350 SRW 6.2 3.73 with 172”WB with 18in tires, 76K miles for 29K
2012 4x4 Lariat F350 SRW 6.2 3.73 with 156”WB FX4 20in tires, 83K miles for 29K (has snow plow/camper package and some sweet looking rims/tires)

A lot of F250 come in at similar pricing so why ever consider a F250 over the F350 for a TV?
2013 4x4 Lariat F250 SRW 6.2 3.73 with 156”WB 18in tires, 90K miles for 29K (has snow plow/camper package)

I’ve never had a diesel so I’m not familiar with owning one. This will also be used year round for commuting to work ~40 miles round trip.

Anybody tow a 36ft TT and wish they had something smaller? (Getting in/out of campsites, certain restrictions in state parks, restrictions on some windy roads in the black hills, etc…)

Is a used 2012 F350 6.2 or 6.7 with the miles listed above seem like a good fit for a max length 36ft TT with a max weight of 9500lbs? (Can’t see myself ever loading TT to the max, but might as well plan on it)
Used F350 buying advice?
6.2 or 6.7 advice given the above?
172 or 156 WB advice given the above?
3.55/3.73/4.30 advice?
18in or 20in tires advice?

Thoughts, comments, 2 cents, suggestions, errors, misprints, advice, and your favorite beer?

Sounds like you have done allot of research. We just upgraded from a 30ft tt to a 38ft fifth wheel toy hauler and there are a few things you might want to consider. As far as the length 36ft might keep you out of a few campgrounds so if you have any favorite spots you might want to check on that. With your commute and as little as you'll be towing it sounds like you will be better off with a 6.2l f250/350 not much difference between the two but a little payload and depending on you're states vehicle registration fees a 250 night save you some cash. I love my diesel but if I had the trailer your talking about in the midwest I know I wouldn't need one. Good luck with the search, the outdoor kitchen was one of my favorite things on our old camper. We opted to be able to haul the side by side and have a dual purpose bunk area instead of a room just for the kids.

I think you're on the right track. If you can keep the weight of the trailer down below 10,000 lbs I think a 6.2L is a good solution. Keep in mind that almost every time I tow my 11K GVWR trailer I'm going over more than one mountain pass that exceeds 10,000' elevation. For what I do, a lot of engine is a GOOD thing and that's why I have a 6.7L. If you're towing on the flats or only hitting minor hills (~3000' elevation?) then a diesel isn't really necessary. Since you're looking at used I would stick to the 6.2L. I wouldn't touch a truck that has been modified (suspension, exhaust, etc.). A clean, non-modified truck has likely seen less wear on it than one that has been modified. I don't care if it's just a leveling kit. The system still sees more wear and tear from such a simple change. For a 6.2L I would go with the higher axle ratio (4.10 is better than 3.55, 4.30 better than 4.10) but the higher your axle ratio the worse your daily drive MPG. It's a trade off and I tend to err on the side of making sure my tow experience is optimal and I'll take the hickey on what happens to the daily drive.

Used trailers are dirt cheap compared to new ones. I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to buy a new trailer. My first/current was used and I got a good deal on it. Unfortunately, my wife's hair stylist (an authoritative source, no doubt) gets a different trailer about every four years. They buy used every time and it's worked out perfect (yeah, right) for them. So my wife is convince that every used trailer is a gem. I'm doomed.

Used trailers pop up for sale a lot more in the fall. That seems to be a good time to buy.

My toy hauler is just over 22' long (25' if you count the hitch). Length matters. I can get into smaller spaces that some can. But it's just the wife and I when I can drag her along. There are a couple campgrounds that I'm looking at in Utah that say nothing over 25'. But these are off the beaten path campgrounds. I usually find a spot in the national forest or BLM and there's not length restriction on boondocking spots.

As far as beer goes, I'm partial to a hearty Stout. I like being able to drink my meal. If a Stout isn't available I prefer Corona Light. I'm strange like that and I'm OK with it.

Edit: Welcome to FTE! I've learned more about trailers here than I have on any other RV website.

With all the research you've done, I think it's most important to get whatever you feel comfortable buying. My strategy for a car/truck is I buy brand new or I buy worn out with the plan to rebuild it. Either way I know what I'm getting. On the other hand, I can see why someone would buy slightly used and feel more comfortable doing that.

For a camper, we bought brand new with the plan to keep it a long time, but I can see buying slightly used if the deal is right. That will give you a chance to see what you like without getting in real deep money wise. Every truck and trailer combo has its own little quirks so it may take a little time to really sort out the truck and trailer options you really like and feel comfortable using.

I like having a fiver for ease of hitching and we already had a pickup. Also like the stability with no need for sway bar or WDH. On the other hand, I can see people wanting a rear hitch for lower cost, frees up a pickup bed, or allows you do tow with a van or SUV. You're a winner either way.

Which brings me back to getting what you're comfortable buying. Lot of opinions out there and some people get irritated if you don't buy what they bought or think the way they think. So get what fits your style knowing your style may evolve as you go.

We did the same thing last year and pretty much did what you're doing now.
Pick out a floorplan that works for everything you want and buy the best truck you can to pull it is my motto.
Our TT is 35' total and right at 9k loaded out. 2014 model.
We picked up a 2011 F-250 Lariat FX4 CCSB 6.2L gasser to pull it. 113k mileage on truck.

Griz

Well, I did the same thing as you about two months ago with the research, etc. Two months later we just go notification that out new 281BH TT has been built and is awaiting transport from Indiana and our F350 Lariat CCSB 4x4 Diesel is scheduled to be built the week of May 7th. Best intentions to stay on budget went out the window. Good luck is the only advice I have at this point.

I have an F350 6.2L and a 37ft bunkhouse camper that weighs 10k lbs and it tows perfectly. We live in Michigan so no major hills to climb. The wife wanted an island kitchen and we have 4 kids, so we needed a bunkhouse. While they are great, I would have preferred a smaller TT and an F150. There's so much room and it's so comfortable the kids don't want to be outside, we are constantly chasing them out. In my opinion camping with kids should be spent outside and the camper should be a place to sleep, make meals and get out of the rain occasionally. We plan to go to Yellowstone maybe next year and our camper is too big for all but one campground in the park. For most state parks in Michigan there are only 10% of sites that we're supposed to be able to fit in.

So my advise is, if you want your kids to sit inside watching TV and playing games, or you're mostly going to camping resorts, get a 36'+ camper and a big truck. If you're going camping to get the kids outside and to occasionally make some trips to National Parks and state parks, maybe downsizing a bit will give you access to more and your TV will get better gas mileage and be better for daily driving.

agree if you are a family of six and spend significant time inside the trailer, every inch of size pays off. If you are four of less and only sleep inside, smaller has some major advantages.

I just picked up a grand design 2400bh, and my first modification is to rip out the TV so my kids don't want to be inside. That trailer is the shortest bunk model with a 60x80 queen I could find from any manufacturer. Under thirty feet from spare tire to ball.

Buying a TT and TV
 

I think you made a good choice asking advice here. Last year i was in a similar position and got great advice. My recommendation is find the truck you like first and that will help decide what trailer to get. . i was able to get the truck and trailer for around $40k total . Good luck in your search.

Hmmm. Being that its a daily driver I would slightly lean towards the diesel. It will cost you more money but the greater mpg might be worth it. Key word might. How many miles do you drive a year on your truck? A 6.2 with 3.73 gears will probably average 11-13mpg maybe more if driven sensibly in mixed driving situations. The diesel you can expect 3-4 mpg better but fuel is about 30-50cents more a gallon. At least in my neck of the woods. Most likely a wash in terms of fuel costs. However you will be at the pump less often with the diesel. I will say this though. The best way to own a diesel is if you can do most of your own work as it will save you money on normal maintenance and smaller repairs. Also have a good mechanic that knows the 6.7. So you're not wasting money on bad troubleshooting. If you are the kind of guy who would have the dealer do everything it can get pricey quick. If you're okay with that then fine. If not and you can't find a good independent guy buy the gas truck. My favorite beer is Dortmunder Gold by Great Lakes brewing. Maybe we will run into each other somewhere. Good luck!

Good comments thus far. At the end of the day it comes down to what you can afford IMO. Years ago I remember looking at RV forums and seeing people either getting smaller TT that they didn't really want or getting new/different TV that they hadn't planned on. I think your miles ahead of most already. I knew I would one day want a TT and didn't want to be as limited on what I could get so I got a 2500 duramax even though at the time I didn't need that much truck. I could afford it and I usually keep a truck for 7yrs or more. Diesel is addictive just as a daily driver. People always seem to focus so much on whether you need it or not in the gas vs diesel debate. While it is relevant, there are so many factors that will be different. I try to consider(maybe to much so) the unexpected. I like growing into things vs out of them. You will tire of going to local parks and want to start venturing out further. I would get the most capable truck gas or diesel that you can afford and like. You will have more options that way. I ended up getting a TT just like you described and am on my second diesel truck. I do wish I had gone with a 350 srw so next time I will. It is a learning experience and even with all the good info here is really just others opinions. You have to get real world practice to have your own. I think you will def make a good choice here. And you will learn from that choice and have other opportunities to apply it

First settle on the trailer you want. This will dictate the truck you need. Also, head over to rv.net and subscribe to the Travel Trailer forum ... lots of great information there.

I am not sure why people suggest settling on the RV first when the RV is never the limiting factor in the TV/TT equation. The limiting factor in that equation is always (100% of the time) the TV. I never heard anyone say, "Gee my tow vehicle can tow 15,000 pounds but my trailer is only 8000 pounds, well, I guess I better sell my truck and buy one that tows 8000 pounds". but, I have heard people say hundreds of times, I want a new trailer but my TV won't handle it. Time to get a new truck too if I want to move up. Bottom line is that no one ever wished they had less towing capacity, EVER! Most everyone wishes they had a bigger TT.

Buy the truck first and buy it with much more capacity than you think you need. Why? Two reasons. First and most important, whatever you think you are going to be towing rightnow, YOU ARE PROBABLY WRONG! the UVW on your trailer will say 6000 pounds and by the time you get it loaded, you'll really be at 7500 pounds., Your TV tow weight will say 10,000 pounds but by the time you take into account your payload sticker, you actually can only tow 7500 pounds. So, to be legal you have to leave you family at home.

One final thought. Buy your vehicle first with more capacity than you think you need and it opens up your TT search in case you find a really great deal on a unit that's a little bigger than you planned.

Do yourself a favor, think about what you are going to get trailer wise, then go buy a vehicle that can tow at least 20% with a payload sticker that leaves you at least 1000 pounds after dropping your wet TT on it. Can't tell you how many posts on the F-150 forum there are about people thinking they could tow 10000 pounds only to find out that their payload was less than an Expedition.

You are correct. That is exactly why the OP should zero in on the travel trailer they want first. Once they pick their TT, they will know what they need to safely and successfully pull that TT making it easier to pick the right truck for the job and ... they will not be limited by a premature, undersizing miscalculation/decision.

Knowing the real world cargo capacity of each truck (250/350/450) when looking at trailers should help with the process. Because I tow in the Rocky Mountains, no trailer I own will ever exceed 80% of the truck's capacities. If I was a flatlander I wouldn't be so worried about the 80% goal.