Is Pocket still around ? HP TORQUE ?
 

I posted a thread some years back asking about HP and he and Cleautus were stating that HP is HP and you can gear around a lack of torque and get desired results.


This is true but only to a point, I do not know what the exact percentage is on + or - on where things will not work right if lacking torque but it's not very much.


After studying this in much detail I came to the conclusion this is a carefully guarded secret because a lot of people have lots of money and time invested in engine building and do not want you to understand how to read a dyno and what it means in real world use.


A lot of misinformation on the subject especially when you plug into a 1/4 mile HP calculator on line and all it asks for is HP and weight but then does not take into consideration average HP across the RPM operating range or the amount of torque to launch and drive the load up the RPM range.


Anytime a engine makes HP at a lower RPM with more torque as compared to another that does it with more RPM the torquer has the ability to drive more load to the peak output no matter how you gear.


A 400 HP motor that turns 3000 RPM to do it will never move 40 or 50 tons like a diesel rig motor that spins 1500 or so.


Just wanted to clarify I finally found the info I was looking for and the main number you need to look at when pulling is your torque # to drive and support the load and the HP rating is just the mile an hour you want to pull at. .

You are still at this? At this point, I think I would call you a troll. All of the obscure "I finally figured it out" and "I see now" comments are right where they were last time you had it all figured out.

By the way, your last paragraph is still wrong.

The first part of the third paragraph up is a no-brainer. For an engine to make more horsepower at a lower rpm, it has to make more torque at a lower rpm as well..... it's called math.

In case anybody missed it:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...e-pulling.html

So you think Pocket and Cleatus are busy closely guarding secrets like they are members of the Illuminati or something?

I think you're wrong in that aspect too. Both have always tried to share whatever knowledge they had.

As you can see, Cleatus is still here. Pocket is up in the 6.7 section now.

I'm busy selling tin foil hats and making millions :-X04 :-X04 :-X04

Your inability to comprehend math is not a valid argument against it. That's quite literally how to sum up that entire argument.

Here was what I was looking for.


You have 2 engines each makes 1 HP, we will say they are electric.


One makes it at 500 RPM the other makes it at 1000 RPM. You have both of them running on a bench and you put a brake on each of the cranks of 1/2 inch and stop them.


The one that turns 500 RPM is twice as hard to stop as the one that turns 1000 because it has 2 twice the torque to drive the load. This is why a diesel kills the gasser on hills because it has more ability to build RPM and maintain it's HP under a load.


The torque at the wheels fallacy and what they are not telling you.


Same engines you put a 2 inch pulley on the one that needs to turn 500 RPM to make 1 HP and a 1 inch pulley on the other that requires 1000 RPM to make 1 HP so on paper they are the same.


Then you put a torque reader gauge on both of them stopped and turn them on with them stopped and take a reading at the edge of each pulley with the gauge braking them so they cannot spin up. The reading will read the same amount of torque which is the " torque at the wheels " which is why they claim they are the same because the gearing on paper shows they are the same but are they?


Then you take a dab of paint and mark each pulley of each engine at the edge with a dot.


You turn both engines on and what just happened ????? The dab of paint just spun up to the 1 HP mark in half the revolutions of the crank on the engine that turns 500 RPM as compared to the one that has to turn 1000 RPM. IT REACHED IT'S 1 hp destination in half the turns which is half the time.


Any gearing changes you make to the engine that turns 1000 RPM to make 1 HP to try and alter this the can be done to the engine that turns 500 so the 500 RPM 1 HP engine always has twice the ability to drive and accelerate the load to the peak output.


Trying to say you can take a dentist tooth Dremel and gear it to be a air impact wrench is total BS.....

After all this time and you still can't quite get it right.

And by the way, you completely lost me at conspiracy when you started this thread. I'm not at all interested in even trying to go down this path again. There is literally no secret to how torque and horsepower works. Either you understand math or you don't.

He's just living up to his user name.

Stewart!!!!

This one needs to be closed too.

No it doesn't. What if others want to discuss/weigh in? You're free to not participate, instead of advocating censorship for everyone. The last thing I want to see is Stewart encouraged to do any more censorship/"moderation".

And to be clear I'm not supporting the OP, "against" you or otherwise. I haven't had time to fully read both threads. My position above is a general one, opposed to censorship/ control of free exchange of thoughts/opinions.

Fully read the one that I linked and then come back to this one and tell me that it's not going to go in the same direction. Better yet, look at all the threads that this person has started. They are all the same kind of deal in a majority of the forums on this website.

Don't close it.. Hell I've been paying for Netflix and Hulu.. This is free entertainment 😁.

Well, of course not. For starters ( no pun intended), thee Dremel has much lighter components, and is not built to withstand a heavy load.
Second, an IMPACT wrench actually relies very heavily on the IMPACTS to do its job, when breaking free stuck/heavily torqued fasteners.

I haven't read both if these threads entirely, but it is pretty clear that you just can't seem to grasp the concepts. That said, I think some of the explanations that I did see were confusing and perhaps not quite right.

Let's make this really simple to start with :
TORQUE is a REAL number. It is a direct measurement of how much "work" a thing can do.
HORSEPOWER is a made up, calculated number. It reflects how quickly work can be done.

You can MEASURE torque, but horsepower must be calculated.
For this reason, EVERY power curve of every engine will always have torque and horsepower "cross over" at 5,252 RPM ( assuming the engine can operate at the rpm)

Here, READ THIS:
https://blog.caranddriver.com/horsep...he-difference/

Maybe, maybe not. Its not really about the OP though. Its about everyone else who wants to reply/read/participate. Anyone who wishes can ignore the thread entirely, or just ignore the OP and we can have our own meaningful discussion or debate.
For example, one thing you posted in the other thread is kinda bugging me, but I can't reply there 'cause its closed:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post14679596
1st, torque is THE definition of work. Well, technically its specifically work in a particular direction ( twisting force). So, torque does do work by itself. We just don't know the rate at which that works is being done.

Second, if you place a 500LB weight on the end of a 4 foot long breaker bar, you will be applying 2,000 foot-LBS of torque to the socket/nut, not 500ft-LB. Something is almost certainly going to happen.:-X04

If you only wanted to apply 500 foot-LBS, then you would need to place that 500LB weight only 1 foot from the socket. Alternatively, you could have placed 125LB at the end of the 4 ft bar.
That's how leverage works.

Simple.. Horsepower is how fast you hit a wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.