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Project "pass it on" build thread
9 Attachment(s)
It may be a little premature, but I wanted a place to post my questions related to the build and I've got a pretty good collection of parts started. This is going to be a father-son project, and I expect to drive it a few years (not my daily) and "pass it on" to my son.
Attachment 136962 This is the truck in its current state. It is a plain 1994 f150 xl 2wd 4.9 auto. The truck has a/c, tilt, and cruise. That's about all the options I'm interested in. Some things I've already done to the truck include- Trans cooler 3:73 gear Brake controller Water pump Thermostat Fan clutch Belt Factory tach instrument panel swap Plans for the truck are a 4x4 conversion with a solid axle. @8" lift up front(10" on a 2wd) and 6" in the rear. 4:88 gear with a ls rear end. 15x10 black steel wheels and 37x13.50 super swamper m-16s. Black off road bumpers, billet grill, smoked head/tail lights. The larger swing mirrors in black. Steel cowl hood and black the tool box and bed caps. Also a redhead steering gear box. Inside will see the seat recovered, a twin stick transfer case, and a good sounding stereo. Attachment 136967Attachment 136966Attachment 136965 This is the 79 chassis I picked up for $300. Some of the things I still need to purchase are, f350 drag link, jbc adjustable trac bar and mount, 6" lift coils, axle rebuild kit, gears, shocks, jb customs twin stick kit, np 205 rebuild kit, and other stuff for sure. Attachment 136968Attachment 136969Attachment 136970Attachment 136971Attachment 136972 This what I picked up today. It's a 4wd e4od out of a wrecked 95 Eddie Bauer. First thing I noticed when I walked up was how clean and dry it was. I pulled the torque converter off and the front of pump was spotless. Then I saw the date on the converter. I figured the truck was wrecked for a while judging from the dust/dirt on the truck. I bet this transmission has less than 5k on it. The guy saw me looking at the date and said if he had known that, he would have priced it higher. I also got the crossmember, skid plate, front driveshaft, cut up rear drive shaft(bent in wreck) and leaf springs. I gave 400 for all this. I think I did good. My next purchase will be the transfer case rebuild kit and the twin stick kit so I can get the transmission in. I also plan on pulling the motor and resealing everything along with a cloydes adjustable timing gear and maybe some very minor head work. The cat and smog pump will be deleted and a mellow exhaust installed. |
Ok, first mistake, how do I edit title, since I misspelled thread? Grammar is not my strong point. I do put forth a little effort, I just didn't pay attention in English class.
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Not sure if you can edit the title. I'd just make a new thread if you can't!
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Click on the "edit" button on your first post.
When the edit box opens, click "go advanced". The text box will have your title line at the top, make the change & hit save. |
Originally Posted by Scndsin
Click on the "edit" button on your first post.
When the edit box opens, click "go advanced". The text box will have your title line at the top, make the change & hit save. |
looks like your off to a good start. i am in the process of a simlar build on an 88' F150.
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I have a np205 transfer case. Ive read about some issues using it with the e4od.
1st off, will the np205 with its different gear reduction effect the computer in low range? Planning on running a jb customs twin stick, will this work with my factory bench seat. Can I get a small diameter driveshaft to clear the transmission. I will be running 8" of front lift, so this may not be an issue. I've found these issues, but no definitive answers. Surely someone on here has done this combo. |
That apears to be a 4WD e4od and a divorced 205, that is not going to work together. For that transfer case you need a 2WD transmission. Driveshaft wise I am sure you can get whatever diameter you want because it will all have to be custom made anyway.
And the computer won't care about the gear reduction of the transfer case. |
Originally Posted by van o
That apears to be a 4WD e4od and a divorced 205, that is not going to work together. For that transfer case you need a 2WD transmission. Driveshaft wise I am sure you can get whatever diameter you want because it will all have to be custom made anyway.
And the computer won't care about the gear reduction of the transfer case. |
I took some rough measurements earlier, and yes the front driveshaft is going to be a issue. Hopefully I can find time this weekend to pull the transfer case and put it on the tranny and play with clocking it. If it's not going to work that sucks because I just ordered a seal and gasket kit from bronco graveyard. I've read where a couple people have made it work in old threads, but they don't give any details.
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There will be some impact with the ratio differences effecting shift points while in low range, NP205 1.96:1 verses the BW1356 2.69:1 a difference of near 3/4 of a revolution.
Question is will it be enough to be noticeable? It might be as I'd think it would cause the trans to hold each gear to long which would or could prove to be a very undesirable trait. Already at a gearing loss between those two transfer cases and then add to it by holding each gear out what might be way too long. If you eliminate the low range feed circuit to the computer then the trans won't shift until rpms climb very high then suddenly jumps/leaps to the next gear as a forced response rather than a nice smooth change in a normal upshift based on ground speed. Then does the NP205 input shaft match the E4OD, have you tried putting the to together? I believe it will or would physically bolt up both having the same 6 bolt matting surface but even if it does there are many 205 input shaft variations beyond that could effect your plans if different in anyway. Have you tried matting the two to each other yet? check that and any possible shifter clearance/mounting issues? jb customs twin stick or not, is there clearance for that center most shift rail? if bolted to the E4OD extension housing. Is it drilled and tapped for pivot bolt where you'll need it? That shift rail encroaches into that 6 bolt pattern, something the 1346/1356 doesn't do in any way. Anyway wanted to comment on the shift question, did just a little digging around on that whole NP205 feasibility aspect beyond that because I still have one out back too. (Red arrow is not my doing, is was already on the picture I used to illustrate shift rail locations, possible conflict with the one on the left) http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attac...5-ford-205.jpg |
[quote=danr1]There will be some impact with the range differences effecting shift points in low range, NP205 [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]1.96:1 verses the BW1356 2.69:1 a difference of near 3/4 of a revaluation.
That shift rail encroaches into that 6 bolt pattern, something the 1346/1356 doesn't do in any way. How does the gear reduction in the transfer case effect the computer but a ring and pinion change doesn't? I noticed today that there is a notch on the mounting surface of the e4od, I guess that's for the shift rail. There goes the idea of clocking the transfer case.:-banghead |
I notice that notch too but looks clocked to high to run the TC in its normal position? then some extension housing appeared they had no such notch?
Ring and pinion change does effect shift points but the speed sensor can be adjusted to compensate it so the computer see the correct ground speed. RPMs/engine load/ground speed/TPS etc = gear in use at any given moment. If the extent of its future will be smash it to the floor until get the other side of the big hole only? then probably won't matter. If its going to be more of a trail rig exploring at a more tame and or normal pace but with a lot of low range use? its shift schedule probably won't be ideal for that. Keep in mind I'm in no way nor do I claim to be the final word on the subject, just throwing out what I believe will be the end result based on information I have and what I have seen first hand. The computer knows what range the TC is in, it uses that information to maintain shift points mirroring to a degree that of high range. Change that one aspect and by enough it will effect it, desirable or not perhaps in a few weeks you tell us! |
Originally Posted by danr1
I notice that notch too but looks clocked to high to run the TC in its normal position? then some extension housing appeared they had no such notch?
Ring and pinion change does effect shift points but the speed sensor can be adjusted to compensate it so the computer The computer knows what range the TC is in, it uses that information to maintain shift points mirroring to a degree that of high range. Change that one aspect and by enough it will effect it, desirable or not perhaps in a few weeks you tell us! I changed from a 3.08 to a 3.73, truck shifts fine, and I have read nothing about adjusting the speed sensor, how would you even adjust it? Does the manual Borg Warner transfer case have an electric plug in that runs thru the computer? I'm not arguing with you at all, just trying to learn. I hate to go thru this trouble, and spend the money, only to end up with a vehicle that does not perform correctly. If need be, I can get a Borg Warner transfer case. This isn't going to be a hard core off road rig by any means. Low range will probably only be used to pull someone out, or maneuver a heavy load around. Fire roads will probably be the extent of off roaring, but we have a few around with some pretty decent creek crossings. |
Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16056980)
I was hoping to clock it downward to help with clearance.
I changed from a 3.08 to a 3.73, truck shifts fine, and I have read nothing about adjusting the speed sensor, how would you even adjust it? Does the manual Borg Warner transfer case have an electric plug in that runs thru the computer? I'm not arguing with you at all, just trying to learn. I hate to go thru this trouble, and spend the money, only to end up with a vehicle that does not perform correctly. If need be, I can get a Borg Warner transfer case. This isn't going to be a hard core off road rig by any means. Low range will probably only be used to pull someone out, or maneuver a heavy load around. Fire roads will probably be the extent of off roaring, but we have a few around with some pretty decent creek crossings. I was speaking to that if it did, speed read off tail shaft, the speedo could be corrected for it. The computer monitors the low range dash light circuit, that input changes shift points when senses power on pin 12. And I didn't take your question/s to my comments as being argumentative, nope not even a little bit. |
Well crap. So I assume the Borg Warner transfer cases do have a plug in, is this plug in on my 2wd harness?
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Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16057077)
Well crap. So I assume the Borg Warner transfer cases do have a plug in, is this plug in on my 2wd harness?
It if mates up the trans you might have what you need for a test in what you have there, put the TC in low range bolt it up then take it for a little ride, you could do that with a rear drive shaft only. If you find the shift points in low range are acceptable? workout everything else knowing that, if not swap it out for a 1356. Your 2 wheel harness, it is unlikely it will already have those TC range circuits from the factory you'd have to add them. |
I should have just stuck with my original plan and put a manual transmission in it.
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Originally Posted by danr1
(Post 16057055)
Changed gearing in the 94? no effect on shift points as it reads ground speed off ring gear, changing tire size effects ground speed reading, not a gearing change.
Re-gearing WILL change the shift points when you're not WOT. The vehicle will shift at the same ground speed, but the engine speed will be higher. WOT will still shift at the programmed RPM.
Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16057262)
I should have just stuck with my original plan and put a manual transmission in it.
1. The NP205's higher low-range ratio will mean the truck will shift at a 25% lower RPM than it would in low-range with the BW transfercase. So instead of shifting into 2nd at 2500 RPM, it'll do it at 1900 RPM. Not a huge deal, IMO. 2. If you need low range, chances are you're in a situation where you won't even leave 1st gear anyways, and you'll have the truck locked into manual 1st. 3. Is any vehicle particularly smooth in low-range? Does it matter if its a little odd crawling around in low-range? I don't think so. Just hook up the NP205's low-range indicator switch to the low-range input on the computer. You may have to get a 4x4 computer, but I'm not sure if Ford differentiated that much between them. I'd imagine they use the same computer in 2wd and 4wd trucks, but you never know. |
Ok guys, I've decided I've got enough to worry about besides trying to make this 205 work with the front output clearance issues. I will just save it for a off road rig later. What will be my easiest options to look for. Bw1356? Bw4406? Bw4407? Others? Definitely want a manual shift transfer case, just want something that will go in with the e4od in my 94 with no troubles and is a good unit.
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Are you planning on towing that camper after you lift the truck?
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No. We a have a seasonal spot now.
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Bw1345 or 1356 will be the best options, both are strong but the 1356 is considered superior. Make note of whether your truck has a fixed or slip yoke before buying one.
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Originally Posted by PlumCrazy7
Bw1345 or 1356 will be the best options, both are strong but the 1356 is considered superior. Make note of whether your truck has a fixed or slip yoke before buying one.
I've found a bw1356 manual shift from a f150. It has the shifter, but it's bolted to an m5od. Will the shifter be the same as a e4od? |
I know you already have the 205, but even regearing the diffs won't have as great of an impact on final gearing as going with a 1356. And the 300 i6,even as good as it is will need all the gear it can get with 37s. I am good friends with someone whom has a full blown mud truck (see mega truck) and he swapped out his 205 for a 1356 because his 540 big block liked the extra gearing it gave. I have a drawn up chart somewhere that has diff ratios and low range ratios combined to give final low ratio somewhere I'll find it and post it up.
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https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7a451352e9.jpg
OK this was for a friend that was doing a GM truck, but same ratios apply. 205=205 208=1356. As you see you would have to go to a 5.88 gear to get as much final reduction as a 4.10 with a 1356. So if you did have to highway drive it there would still be some manners. |
Thanks mudsport, I've come to the conclusion I will be buying a bw1345 or 1356. I also finally found an old thread that answers my last question. The shifter is different for an e4od. The search is on. I have a feeling the shifter will be more difficult to find than the case.
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This is my favorite gear ratio calculator.
Gear Ratio Calculator I use this a lot as it has the transmission and transfercase ratios built in. |
Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16035575)
It may be a little premature, but I wanted a place to post my questions related to the build and I've got a pretty good collection of parts started. This is going to be a father-son project, and I expect to drive it a few years (not my daily) and "pass it on" to my son.
Attachment 136962 This is the truck in its current state. It is a plain 1994 f150 xl 2wd 4.9 auto. The truck has a/c, tilt, and cruise. That's about all the options I'm interested in. Some things I've already done to the truck include- Trans cooler 3:73 gear Brake controller Water pump Thermostat Fan clutch Belt Factory tach instrument panel swap Plans for the truck are a 4x4 conversion with a solid axle. @8" lift up front(10" on a 2wd) and 6" in the rear. 4:88 gear with a ls rear end. 15x10 black steel wheels and 37x13.50 super swamper m-16s. Black off road bumpers, billet grill, smoked head/tail lights. The larger swing mirrors in black. Steel cowl hood and black the tool box and bed caps. Also a redhead steering gear box. Inside will see the seat recovered, a twin stick transfer case, and a good sounding stereo. Attachment 136967Attachment 136966Attachment 136965 This is the 79 chassis I picked up for $300. Some of the things I still need to purchase are, f350 drag link, jbc adjustable trac bar and mount, 6" lift coils, axle rebuild kit, gears, shocks, jb customs twin stick kit, np 205 rebuild kit, and other stuff for sure. Attachment 136968Attachment 136969Attachment 136970Attachment 136971Attachment 136972 This what I picked up today. It's a 4wd e4od out of a wrecked 95 Eddie Bauer. First thing I noticed when I walked up was how clean and dry it was. I pulled the torque converter off and the front of pump was spotless. Then I saw the date on the converter. I figured the truck was wrecked for a while judging from the dust/dirt on the truck. I bet this transmission has less than 5k on it. The guy saw me looking at the date and said if he had known that, he would have priced it higher. I also got the crossmember, skid plate, front driveshaft, cut up rear drive shaft(bent in wreck) and leaf springs. I gave 400 for all this. I think I did good. My next purchase will be the transfer case rebuild kit and the twin stick kit so I can get the transmission in. I also plan on pulling the motor and resealing everything along with a cloydes adjustable timing gear and maybe some very minor head work. The cat and smog pump will be deleted and a mellow exhaust installed. First question, that '79 frame, is the track bar attached to the lower part of the driver's side shock mount? Can you please snap a closer pic of that and post? I got the front sub section of a '78 bronco and it looks like they had a James Duff after market type track bar mount. Second question, how was the camper towing with your 4.9 and the 3.73 gears? I am looking at doing my rear in the smae and I have a 6450lb camper i will be towing. I also have a manual versus your auto trans. Thanks! Looking forward to see how this rig turns out. |
Originally Posted by vochy
(Post 16038407)
looks like your off to a good start. i am in the process of a simlar build on an 88' F150.
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Originally Posted by frakchered
First off SUBSCRIBED! Please post lots of pics of your straight axle job PLZ!
First question, that '79 frame, is the track bar attached to the lower part of the driver's side shock mount? Can you please snap a closer pic of that and post? I got the front sub section of a '78 bronco and it looks like they had a James Duff after market type track bar mount. Second question, how was the camper towing with your 4.9 and the 3.73 gears? I am looking at doing my rear in the smae and I have a 6450lb camper i will be towing. I also have a manual versus your auto trans. Thanks! Looking forward to see how this rig turns out. It towed the camper pretty well at @55mph. No way I would try it down the interstate. My campgrounds are all within 15-30 miles(and lots of them). The straight shift is a huge handy cap for you. The m5od has a very high first gear and reverse ratio. If your truck is 4wd, you could use low range to maneuver the camper around. If it's 2wd, I would not even think about it, especially with any grade. I've smoked a clutch on an 06(same tranny) with 3:55 gears with a much smaller camper. I was trying to back it in to a spot that was at the top of a steep grade. That same truck also slipped the clutch pulling out from a red light with small grade with a 7k pound load of scrap metal(scrap and trailer). With that said, I pulled a 3500lbs boat a lot with it and never had an issue. I've had several m5od's and they have all been good to me, even though I wasn't good to them. The m5od's overdrive isn't as high as the e4od either, and I'm turning @ 2100 at 70, so if you do any interstate driving, you will not like the 3:73 gear. You can watch the gas gauge move. Around town at 60 and under, you will love it, and gas mileage will actually be better. |
Originally Posted by Bruners4
This is my favorite gear ratio calculator.
Gear Ratio Calculator I use this a lot as it has the transmission and transfercase ratios built in. |
Also I've noticed on several 300 trucks, when low range is used frequently, the drivers side engine mount tears apart often. So you may want to look into a travel limiting strap or chain.
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Thanks mudsport, but I doubt this truck will see low range very often. A lot more pavement than dirt.
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Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16061879)
Yes, the trac bar mounts to the bottom of shock mount. I will try to remember to take some pics tomorrow.
It towed the camper pretty well at @55mph. No way I would try it down the interstate. My campgrounds are all within 15-30 miles(and lots of them). The straight shift is a huge handy cap for you. The m5od has a very high first gear and reverse ratio. If your truck is 4wd, you could use low range to maneuver the camper around. If it's 2wd, I would not even think about it, especially with any grade. I've smoked a clutch on an 06(same tranny) with 3:55 gears with a much smaller camper. I was trying to back it in to a spot that was at the top of a steep grade. That same truck also slipped the clutch pulling out from a red light with small grade with a 7k pound load of scrap metal(scrap and trailer). With that said, I pulled a 3500lbs boat a lot with it and never had an issue. I've had several m5od's and they have all been good to me, even though I wasn't good to them. The m5od's overdrive isn't as high as the e4od either, and I'm turning @ 2100 at 70, so if you do any interstate driving, you will not like the 3:73 gear. You can watch the gas gauge move. Around town at 60 and under, you will love it, and gas mileage will actually be better. |
Gear Ratio Calculator
Maybe this one will work? If not the site is grimmjeeper.com/gears. |
Yes the zf5 is a far better towing transmission. It's made for heavy duty applications and has a granny first gear. Will not be as fun to drive daily as an m5od, but a much "tougher" transmission. I put that in parentheses because I've seen a lot more grinding and wornout zf's than m5od's. The m5od's problem usually comes from leaking plugs and running them dry or worn out shifting forks, which are a relatively easy fix. But without a doubt the zf5 can handle a lot more. You can put the 11" clutch in the m5od. Doesn't fix the sky high gearing though. I think the zf5 would be a good Combo behind a 4.9 because you could run a taller rear end, keeping the rpms where the 300 likes it, down low. Around here, the small block zf5 is getting hard to find, and they are very proud of them. That's why I ended up keeping the e4od, to much work converting to a manual to only put a m5od in.
Now, let me go get those pics for you. |
Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16063459)
Yes the zf5 is a far better towing transmission. It's made for heavy duty applications and has a granny first gear. Will not be as fun to drive daily as an m5od, but a much "tougher" transmission. I put that in parentheses because I've seen a lot more grinding and wornout zf's than m5od's. The m5od's problem usually comes from leaking plugs and running them dry or worn out shifting forks, which are a relatively easy fix. But without a doubt the zf5 can handle a lot more. You can put the 11" clutch in the m5od. Doesn't fix the sky high gearing though. I think the zf5 would be a good Combo behind a 4.9 because you could run a taller rear end, keeping the rpms where the 300 likes it, down low. Around here, the small block zf5 is getting hard to find, and they are very proud of them. That's why I ended up keeping the e4od, to much work converting to a manual to only put a m5od in.
Now, let me go get those pics for you. I got to looking at your pic on the '79 frame. Your shocks are infront of the axle where as the clip I bought had them mopunted on the rear. I would be interested to see your shock mounts as well. It would be odd to do but with a set of your shock mounts and my factory '78 mounts you could run double shocks. Wouldn't be a typical set up but doable. |
6 Attachment(s)
My set up has dual shocks. If you had a 2wd zf5, you have the option of a divorced np205.Attachment 137976Attachment 137974Attachment 137973Attachment 137977Attachment 137972Attachment 137975
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Originally Posted by Ron94150
(Post 16063486)
My set up has dual shocks. If you had a 2wd zf5, you have the option of a divorced np205.Attachment 137976Attachment 137974Attachment 137973Attachment 137977Attachment 137972Attachment 137975
As for the divorced np205 I would think it is a lot more work. This truck is currently not a daily driver and I use it mainly for winter months driving between Va and Oh. My Daily is a VW TDI. I will look into the divorced NP205 although I like the plug and play option of the ZF and NP205. |
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