Mixed feelings about selling off my van...
 

Man, this is weird. My wife and I need to travel now that she's retired, and our '02 E150 would be the perfect vehicle. Decent gas mileage, totally reliable, and old enough to be "comfortable" where I don't worry about a little ding or a little dirt. But the dang engine cover bothers my wife's left knee bigtime, and torques my back when I'm sitting in the front passenger seat. So it's like a perfect pair of boots that does not fit comfortably.

I mentioned on a group bike ride that I might be selling, and a good friend (who is on the Board of my bike club--and I am prez) who does appliance repair said he's looking for a new work van. He had been driving a Dodge van that was over 300k miles and it had died.

So he called me yesterday and said he wanted to come over and drive it this week. I would have no hesitation selling it to a friend (except I won't ask for top dollar but that's OK) but I'm kind of freaking out at the prospect of being vanless for the first time since 1986.

We will probably buy a minivan (looking at Mopars, Honda, and Toyota) as a replacement and it will serve us just fine. I don't have a big problem "wearing" a minivan. As a musician and bicyclist, I have a LOT of friends who drive minis with no shame because they flat out work. But I'll miss the ground clearance and the toughness of a real truck after so many years with one. My van has a solid axle with a sturdy Eaton posi that I had installed right after I bought it in 2003. Can't put something like that in a minivan. And driving up a curb or down a rutted campground road won't work with the new gen minivans. (They took away the ground clearance to fit the folding seats under the floor...)

I have thought about various SUV's like Explorers, Flexes, Traverses, Tahoe/Expedition/Suburban type things but none of them have the room for big stuff...and the load height of a big SUV is about 8 feet like a pickup... Transit Connect is cute but just too darn small inside. Front seat feels tighter than my Subaru Forester and I like elbow room for traveling.

Big Transit seems to have compromises in front passenger room and it's just not "me"... It will be a convenience for parking in structures, etc. to get a minivan. I'll get my wife some heated seats, and shoot for dual climate control (we run at a 20 degree temp difference) so there are things I'm looking forward to. Lots of airbags in the new minis in case something bad happens and that is a good thing these days too.

I'll miss the friends I have on this forum (although I promise to stop by every so often)...

But when my bud calls me to actually look at the van, I'm gonna get that nervous feeling in the pit of my stomach after owning this van for 12.5 years. If he doesn't buy it, I might even keep it over another winter...or put it on Craig's list and just get on with it.

Conflicted and thinking out loud...if anyone has an idea about how to cut a foot out of the right side of my engine cover let me know NOW.

George

I know how you feel YoGeorge, if I had to travel like that I would move the Pass front seat to the Pass center and use the seat belts for that position with one of those RV full recliners. Wake me up when we get there................

I've had minivans pretty much since 2001. I had the initial 'soccer mom stigma' complex about it at first, but geez. They're so useful for the intended purpose that the wife actually insisted on one this year when we picked up the 2015 Caravan. We don't really need one because the family dynamics have changed, i.e. kids have grown out of that need, but we still dig the size and utility. Of course, I still need my big boy Bubba but that's for no actual need, just want. Point is, you'll probably take to minivans just fine.

stay seated
 

Couldn't you just remount the passenger seat about a foot farther back? Maybe engineer a sliding track system to do it.

Sure.... you might have to figure out new seatbelt mounts...

Or maybe get a swivel seatbase and just let her sit facing rearward...she might not like that tho.

Options...is all I'm sayin...

:-X22

They make seats with built-in seat belts. Check out crew cabs with suicide rear doors.

Are the Aerostar and Astro too old for you?

Sixto
93 E150 Chateau 5.8 191K miles

Thanks, Brian and Sixto...

My front driver's seat is already moved back with new holes in the seat base and the passenger seat could go back a few inches with new holes in the floor or steel straps on top of the base...but my wife and I like a nice angled floor with our feet symmetrically in front of us and the E van just ain't gonna do it. Nobody is gonna sit backward...my wife drives sometimes too (My '73 E200 Turtle Top conversion had front seats with full swivels a million years ago. Now those were CRAZY bad for front legroom for driver and passenger.)

Sadly, the Savana/Express has most of the room we need but I had a "Savana from hell" in 1996 and just can't go there again... GM moved the engine forward and centered it a bit more than the E vans so they hit the right combo. The new big Transit has some weird stuff happening with the wheel wells.

Moving the passenger seat back (if I got a new seat with a harness) puts it into the path of the side door access and would lose the air bag effectiveness...I would hate to survive an accident and not have my wife survive.

The Astro engine cover is far worse than any big van for non-left-amputees... I think the Aerostar used to be a bit better but too old and crude.

Again, the new minis are really safe (if someone crosses the yellow line, falls asleep, or something else bad happens, we get front, side, and curtain airbags as well as stability control etc.), quiet and comfy, and heated front seats and dual climate control in the front would give us creature comforts. I am 63 and my wife is 64 and the next 10 years may be the high point of our life's travels. We can afford a new minivan and even load it up. Hell, I could afford a new or recent used Expedition/Suburban/Tahoe but a minivan has more room for bicycles and a lower load height. Our friends are buying vacation homes, motorhomes, and yachts.

Thanks for the ideas. If my friend doesn't call me or we can't settle on a price, I can survive another year with the E150 and we can travel in my Subaru (but not with all the *stuff* we like to take). My wife packs 100 lbs of stuff for each day we're away from home :)

Funny thing is that I'm almost more conflicted about letting go of my van than I was retiring from my job. The other option is just keeping the E150 for real big stuff and day trips, and swapping my Subaru for an Explorer/Flex for travels. But the Subaru has 70 cubic feet for cargo, the Explorer/Flex are a bit over 80 cubic feet, and a minivan is 150... Traverse is 117 or so, bigger than an Expy or Tahoe, but still has a high load height. So the mini is what I want for "stuff". An AWD mini with ground clearance would be cool, but the only AWD mini is the Toyota Sienna, and it is low and omits the spare tire for run-flats. Yuk.

Another pisser is that Ford makes a "Transit Custom" that is a mid sized FWD Transit that is Euro-only and THAT is the one I want. I think the big Transit used to be FWD or RWD and they spun the Custom off of that. (And how stupid to have a Transit, Transit Custom, and Transit Connect--the same name for 3 vehicles...)

29 years with a full size van makes for a habit that is hard to break. And this might be the last V8 vehicle I'll ever own, another tradition down the tubes.

George

my drivers seat is moved back too on my 2003.


you should really keep it and try a few trips, after moving the passenger seat of course. see how the boss likes it first then if she isn't happy, you have already been looking and hey you never know she might like it.


hate to throw money at something you aren't sure about.


keep it......................:-drink

shrunken heads?
 

A friend of mine used to have a Honda Fit....you can cram a lot of stuff in that little econobox...Forty mpg on the highway too...And I bet we can find you a 'V-8' sticker to put on it somewhere....

:-X04

fit = shart
halfway between a fart and sh_t :-drink

thoughts
 

Previously before owning our E350 - we were towing our campers with an 03 Expedition. Only real reason we sold it was that we wanted a bigger camper and the Expedition could not handle it.

Also owned an Astro and Safari and we really liked them as well, but again we moved up in camper weight so went to a larger vehicle.

Thanks, an Expy is "kind of" on the list but they are really expensive, use more gas than I would like, and have far less room inside than a big minivan. Astro/Safari are ancient platforms and are even worse for the front seat passenger than the E vans.

Take care,
George

Compromise
 

Buy the minivan of your dreams, and keep the E- van.

Live life carefree and see how it plays out.

Everybody wins. Except your friend who wants to buy the E- van LOL

We are 2 people and we have 4 cars already. If I wanted a 5th car it would be a Corvette or performance car of some kind. (I've had a couple Vettes and a bunch of old muscle cars and THOSE would have been the ones to keep.)

One option is to keep the E van for occasional big and heavy stuff and upsize my Subaru for something larger like an Explorer.... The E van is a great appliance but it's not a unique collector's piece. But I like the Subaru because it has a stick and those are becoming extinct.

Friend has not called yet and I have no idea where he is gonna be on price. I would give him a fine deal but that may not be his concept of a fine deal. So I may be very premature with all of this whining and overthinking. I just keep wanting something that nobody makes right now.

George

Nissan?
 

Seriously, have you considered one of the new full-sized Nissan NV's?

Van sized, available V-8, and car-like front seats. Body-on-frame construction. Regular roof or high roof, and made in USA. Comparatively priced too.

The general outline may not be to your liking, but to me they resemble a pickup with a topper.

I have not driven one, nor do I have any vested interest but they are on my personal radar for a possible future vehicle.

:-X22

http://www.nissancommercialvehicles....ommercial.link

Thanks for the idea--just looked at the web page, but the length is 240" on those and I just don't want to go bigger than my current van. My E van is like 212" and I was actually looking forward to a minivan at 200-202" of length to get a bit more garage room. And I like the stow and go seats in the minis as well even if it's just the 3rd row.

If I'm reading the specs right, it looks like empty weight of the Nissan is almost 7000 lbs (yikes). They do look like they put the engine out front like a pickup so I bet the front passenger legroom is good. Aha...I just noted that all the passenger versions are the 3500 where you can get a 1500 cargo van in the NV.

Hell, I haven't even checked out the Nissan Quest minivan and I should go look at that. I refuse to buy Korean brands and would so much prefer a domestic nameplate but that leaves me Chrysler and Dodge which are OK but are on their way out with the current design.

So I should make a visit to the Nissan dealer and just take a look but probably more at the Quest.

Thanks for the idea though,
George

You Wll Be Sorry
 

It's not worth a lot of money. By your own admission, it is reliable. Might as well keep it - for at least a year.
Consider selling something else?
You are going to miss the old girl.,....jack

gonna cost you some money I bet!
 

They are not small by any current definition, thats for sure.

If you look at either, let us know what you think. Better yet, at least drive the NV....I'd like to hear some of your impressions.

:-X22

Keep the van and buy a vette.

You must be tall people with tired knees. At my height, I couldn't get into our C2500 Suburban if I had bad knees.

Can you wait for this - Mercedes-Benz Vans: Future Vehicles: Metris ?

http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/images/...t-exterior.jpg

Pity there's no Diesel option for the US.

Sixto
93 E150 Chateau 5.8 191K miles

YoGeorge even if you become vanless its not necessary to even briefly think of leaving FTE. Your accumulated experience and knowledge would be useful here no matter what you're currently driving.

I'll add this of my own experience............Had been driving a 2000 E250 with raised roof for my glass business--it was purring along without a hitch, probably had at least another 70K miles before it would have needed a new motor.

Found a seemingly nice 2003 extended body that drove like a dream---the price was right, mileage was low (165K) so it followed me home. The original plan was fitting the new van to my work truck specs and when finished the '00 would be sold off.

As fate has it I had one beater car which had lived its life, time to be environmentally responsibly recycled. Hastily bought a '99 Volvo S80 T6 which turned into a night mare---sold it with little loss just about a year later. (PVC system or throttle body issues, leaking heater core---just to name a few of the potentially insanely costly repairs it was facing.) That left me with "only" two vehicles, one '00 and one '03 E250.

A few changes relating to my suppliers and purchasing arrangements the "old" '00 E250 is pressed back into service hauling things about once or twice a month. As I make those trips I wonder how I'd deal with all this driving the beater cars (aforementioned Volvo and/or '84 Pontiac Parisenne)---wasn't I glad I hung onto the older van? :)

So maybe look for another better suited travel or daily driver vehicle but think of hanging onto your E150 a year or so before letting it go. If it ends up sitting far more often than driven it can go without much remorse. There comes a few times we need to be slightly "selfish" if only to err on the side of caution for our own best interests.

Just food for thought, from my perspective anyway.

Thanks all...I'm driving the van only 5-7k per year and very few of those miles see it being used for much of its capacity. We have 2 ultra-reliable daily drivers (wife's '07 Civic and my '09 Subaru Forester) and my garage queen '91 BMW 318is which is close to ultra reliable. (Could use a refresh of heater hoses and a round of new shocks but it's gonna be 25 years old in September.) So we got spare cars if I sell the van and buy a new mini--and I would buy brand new. I have not been away from home for more than 3 days for the last 6 years and I want to go to Maine and California and Alaska and.... And I could take the Subaru if I would settle on an outside bicycle rack but I like the bikes in the vehicle since two of our bikes are probably worth more than my van right now.

What lit my butt on fire to replace the E van was that Chrysler was supposed to discontinue the current Grand Caravan and T&C for 2015 and the year end deals are happening. But I just found out from my salesmen that they will build the current model into 2016 despite the factory having a line for the new revised T&C (which I would avoid bigtime as I don't trust non-Japanese first year models--and the new ones are delayed becaue of problems). So I can hold off till next year, still get an old gen Mopar mini, and sell the E van at my convenience--I don't really like the idea of a brand new vehicle being run thru Michigan salt in its first few months of life.

I've been leaning toward Honda/Toyota minivans because of their reliability but I come from a strong UAW family and group of friends--I am in Detroit--and the Chrysler minis are built 20 miles from my house (as the crow flies--in Canada). And with 3 imports, I feel I need to support my neighbors with at least one American vehicle. It is a statement thing.

Found a used 2011 Expedition and got just a bit tempted, but there is not enough room in it. Besides wanting to travel with 2 bicycles plus an acoustic guitar plus additional stuff, I am Manager of the Disabilities Division at the Detroit Marathon which puts me in charge of bicyclists accompanying the handcycle division and I need a vehicle with a low lift height and cargo height/width into which I could load a broken down handcycle and rider. Most of these guys are disabled vets and I am damn proud to be in this position. The big van is ideal for this, actually...

This week just exploded with *stuff* to do. I just got assigned 3 songs to learn by Sunday for church (I am working my way into their music program as a major goal--playing to 1600 seats plus a webcast), played an acoustic thing Tuesday, and have my usual Friday night music gig. So with cycling and music, I don't have time to play with a Corvette...I don't have time for my beloved BMW even which is more fun than a dreadfully fast car because you can actually push it on public roads. (In my past are a couple Vettes, two 426 Hemi Mopars, and some other big block muscle cars, some drag racing trophies, and some autocrossing jollies too.)

I need a comfortable appliance and am settling on a minivan, and probably a Chrysler--Consumer Reports says Toyota or Honda, but my heart says Mopar. And it may be next week or next year. Thanks for the advice and humor here. Whatever I buy, I'll still stop by here.

And JWA--I would have told you not to buy anything complex, recent, and European. My bimmer is simple, has manual Recaros and a crank sunroof, and is basically a poor man's E30 M3. More fun than a basket of puppies on a twisty road. A one-year niche model but with 3 million E30's built there are lots of parts. (Look up 1991 BMW 318is...mine is red, mint, with factory BBS cross-spokes. Same weight and drivetrain as the early Z3 and 50/50 weight distribution.)

I'll let ya know if I make any moves and may still go drive a Quest. I've driven the Mopars, Hondas, and Toyotas already and they're all nice.

Gotta go learn some songs now. Music director has a knack for finding non-popular religious songs with loony chord changes and unpredictable melodies and I have a hard time saying "no" to volunteer "opportunites" of any kind.

George

George I found that Volvo literally right across my street---neighbor was selling, asking $800. Brakes were shot so all in all I had but $1200 in it.

My first clue about impending financial pitfalls was an issue with the auto-darkening inside rear view mirror. Learned from a Volvo forum when replaced by the dealership they'd run an owner just at $1500. :-hair :) I made the necessary repairs for about $10 but still that cost was a harbinger, that much I knew.

When it refused to start and the "impending doom" dashboard lit up, my Actron scanner couldn't read 2/3 of the "factory specific DTC's" sale or scraping was my best move. Adding in the leaking heater core filling driver's side floor with coolant it was time to throw in the towel.

Having once owned a body shop specializing in grey market and upper end foreign cars the 318i's were a favorite of most BMW lovers, especially after the 320i's were unleashed. A good car is well worth hanging onto, keeping up on the maintenance keeps em running a long, long time.

We'll be watching your eventual choice YoGeorge-----either way you've got my best wishes what ever the choice! :-X22 :)

Yes sir, the 2016 will be the same model as the '15, then it will die off when the all new Chrysler only platform goes live for MY2017.

I've had 2 Chrysler minivans (97 Chrysler 3.3 and 05 Dodge 3.8) and loved them. We still have the 05.
The 97 got a transmission and 140k miles.
Both have been significantly cheaper to maintain than my friends' and family's Hondas.
I especially like no $1000 timing belt changes and no $1000 active motor mount changes.
I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

The VW Routan was a Chrysler option until last year.

Sixto
93 E150 Chateau 5.8 191K miles

My wife's '07 Civic has a timing chain and ZERO problems at 133k miles...we bought it new. It gets 34-40 mpg. It just got its first rear brake shoe replacement. It is really the best car I have ever experienced in my life and was built in Ohio. It has needed tires, fluid changes, set of plugs at 100k.

We went and sat in an Odyssey and a Town and Country today and my wife and I both liked the ergonomics of the T&C better and as I said above I am doing a hard lean in the direction of a Mopar van. My UAW conscience is working overtime and that has been an underlying problem for me since there is only one domestic minivan left. (I can't count the Transit Connect because that's built in Spain and it's too small.) They will make some old style Mopars for 2016 so we have time.

We also sat in and fantasized about a used 2011 Expedition Limited LOADED and it was kind of cool but the load height was really bad and it was just so overdone. The cooled fronts seats were great but I would not want them broken, same with the power running boards in Michigan ice and salt and a million other etronic features.

George

George,


Might want to try a Quest test.


My wife and I test drove one and we were impressed. Seats were really comfortable.


I'll admit controls were awkward but after driving E vans for so many years.....


John

Quest test??

the sixties
 

Jonny Quest!

Gawd..I'm old...

:'(

Ha, you and me both.

I had a 2011 Grand Caravan for the last two-and-a-half years at work, and I honestly wouldn't recommend one.

At 35,000 miles it had to be towed for an electrical issue. Started the van up to find no instrument cluster power and the windshield wipers wouldn't turn off. Fixed with a re-flash of the PCM.

At 57,000 miles it needed a new cylinder head due to a cylinder #2 misfire. Apparently the valve seats would wear funny and cause low compression. Covered barely under warranty.

From about 45,000 miles the buttons on the steering wheel would only work intermittently. This was a nearly base-model van, so it affected the odometer and cruise control seemingly at random. The van has always rattled when going over bumps; as close as I can tell it has to do with the seats, but I haven't tracked it down. The rear HVAC control knobs spun on their shafts before I ever got it, and the nearly new 2014 model I drove with less than 500 miles did the same thing. With those kind of quality issues there's no way I would ever consider owning one. Some may have great luck with them, but I've not had a positive experience with one.

My wife had a '11 Sienna AWD that we liked, but never were happy with the run-flat compromise. The rear differential failed at 72,000 miles, presumably because the oil level was underfilled from the factory. It also needed a door cable at 81,000 miles due to a frozen pulley that I did myself. It's a $50 part with a 6-hour flat-rate repair time. We currently have a '12 Odyssey that we really like, but at 45,000 miles it's too soon to tell how it'll hold up over the long run. Fantastic gas mileage though, it's capable of 28 on the highway. We towed our 3,500 lb boat with both vans and had no issues, and the Odyssey is currently on a trip across the country with a 5,000 lb trailer. Total weight is 10,040 lbs with a full tank and no driver, and it's handling the weight just great! :D


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b84b3acee7.jpg

I also remember that series. :D

Thanks so much for your real-life experience with 3 brands. 2011 was the first year for the new 3.6 Chrysler engine and I have to believe they have it straightened out because they are using it in EVERY flipping vehicle they make... (The idea of cast-in-head aluminum exhaust manifolds used to bother me out but the combustion chambers are aluminum and are hotter yet and so many engines have exhaust manifold gasket problems...and the early reports of porous block castings were not good.)

And I don't really trust Chrysler's electronics like I do the Japanese brands...so I have those hesitations. But I have friends with newer Chrysler vans and they are doing OK--I would buy an extended warranty and not get one with the max etronics packages. I do like the middle row stow and go package a lot and it looks like the Chrysler has the best ground clearance. And frankly I like the simpler boxy looks of the Chrysler the best although looks are not my main criteria.

As I said, I have big 3 engineer friends all over the place and there are no other American UAW choices. (Well the Mopars are CAW...)

I have friends with Odysseys over 200k miles and doing great, but also had friends with early ~2000 Ody's that had the bad transmissions. Guessing Honda has gotten their transmissions together. My wife doesn't like the passenger footwell as well in the Ody because the wheel well intrudes (I am putting her comfort as #1 priority here). And it looks weird with the window line--although they are redoing it to a straight window line in 2016 but putting a weird crease in the side...I don't get some Japanese styling. And the Ody seems to have the lowest ground clearance.

I am not a Toyota guy (I did own an FJ40 Land Crusher once) but can't deny Consumer Reports reliability ratings. I like their middle row seat which moves back and gives limo room for 4 people but again not stow and go. Love the idea of an AWD van but not the run flat tires at all. Have a Chrysler engineer bud that had an old AWD Mopar company van and took me for an off road trip in that for fun and it was so cool--but Mopar lost the AWD when they went stow and go.

My friend has not called on the E150 and I am not gonna push him. Got so much other stuff going on, and having found out that Chrysler is gonna keep making their mini's status quo for early 2016 anyway I may drag my feet thru this winter.

I truly appreciate everyone's thoughts and putting up with my "thinking out loud". I have been overthinking vehicle purchases and that usually pays off. The downside is that with great vehicles I get bored with them because there is no reason to get rid of them...3 of ours are over 120k miles and the "new" Subaru is at 94k and they are all totally trustworthy. When I bought crappy stuff I was looking to unload them at 60k miles.

Finally, although this thread has gotten off of Ford vans, it occurs to me that the "recreational van" market--consumer full size van conversions as well as large minivans, has fallen out of favor for SUV's. There are people like me (and other bicyclists and musicians) who like the cargo height and pure cubic footage of a van and are not as concerned about "wearing" the wrong vehicle like many people who would never consider a minivan even though it's perfect for their needs. Instead they buy an Explorer which has half the cargo capacity, or an Expedition/Suburban/Tahoe which has 2/3 the cargo space and a HUGE price tag.

Thanks for your reports, and yeah, I'm old enough to remember Johnny Quest too... :)
George

I believe that George, from what I understand that particular issue was exclusive to the 2011 and early 2012 models. The upside is that the Pentastar engine makes this van a rocket ship compared to most others. The transmission shifting used to be awful, but that smoothed out quite a bit with the recall to re-flash the PCM a couple years ago.

Both the Sienna and Grand Caravan use canister-style oil filters, while the Odyssey uses a conventional spin-on filter. I've never done an oil change on the Grand Caravan, but the upside-down canister setup on my old Super Duty was the easiest I've ever had to work with because gravity makes it drain back into the housing as you remove it. I believe the GC's housing would work similarly. The Sienna's filter housing is facing downward, and is an absolute PITA to deal with.

My '91 BMW (mine since 1994) has an open canister filter facing upward and it is excellent to change--plus you can see if there is any nasty stuff on the element without having to cut open the filter can (my BMW is free of nasty stuff so far)... In 1971 (age 19) I bought an Austin Healey 3000 with a downward facing canister and didn't get the O-ring on just right. Pumped out 5 quarts of oil in my gf's parent's driveway before I realized what was happening. Fortunately my gf (who is also my ex-wife) had cats and a 20 lb bag of kitty litter that was unopened... :)

Fast forward to 2004--on my 4.6 E-van the dealer put on a cheep oil filter (WTF? not a Motorcraft) and the engine rattled on startup. After 3 days I decided to do a quick change on the filter and didn't realize the cheapie filter had left the old gasket on the mating service and I screwed the 820S over it. So 33 years later I had deja vu of pumping about 3 quarts onto my own driveway. Current wife and I still had a cat and a new bag of kitty litter...and I check the mating surface EVERY time now.

So I like upward facing canisters...but it's hard to make things foolproof because fools (like me) are so determined. Our last cat died last year at age 20 but I have a bag of oil-dri (aka kitty litter) in the garage.

George

updates?
 

Bump!

Well?

Closure dammit...closure...

:-huh

No closure. Friend came and looked at the van. Seemed interested but said he'd get back with me in the next couple days about whether he could pull the money together. This was 5 or 6 days ago. Guessing no money...or he thinks he can find a better deal somewhere. Good guy but occasionally flaky and I have not done money deals with him before. Tough selling a vehicle to a friend in the event that something unforeseen happens too...resolution is tough.

My BMW blew its radiator after 25 years last week (built 9/90) and my wife's Civic has sporadic AC, its first issue in 133k miles, so at this point I'm gonna hold the van at least until my wife's AC works as it has been running close to 90 degrees this last few days. Will call on BMW and Civic service on Tuesday and get those moving.

I also got off on a tangent thinking I want a Tahoe or Yukon but am absolutely choking at the prices. Got a GM engineer bud and an independent lease sales dealer checking on lease returns for me. Rear seats don't come out on 2015's so I'd rather have a 13 or 14. Nobody is in a hurry as it's a holiday and people are out of town and partying.

Dodge minivans seem to be very scarce in leftover 15's now but it's clear they will be making them for 2016 and the lease dealer says he can get me an employee price on a Chrysler product.

I had the flu for 3 days last week and had 3 music gigs in the last 3 days so my brain is elsewhere for the moment. Need sleep.

I will definitely tell you guys when I make a move, either selling or buying.
Thanks for asking and happy Labor Day.

My family's heavy Detroit UAW background (plus my wife working for 40 years in Detroit Public TV in the IBEW) and this holiday make me lean hard toward buying an American brand name with a UAW or CAW build. I have friends and neighbors I consciously want to support.

My son works for a Tier 1 supplier (materials science engineer doing interior laminated panels) and just told us today he has been handed responsibility for his company's Chrysler accounts providing parts for at least 5 vehicles. He had previously been doing inside work on random pieces for Chrysler, Ford, and some import brands built in the US. (Not glam work, but he's gotta keep rickety giant machines going and hold up QC standards for honeycomb panels for trunk floors and trim parts with bonded carpet.) I know he's done trunk floors and glovebox doors--wonder if he's doing stow and go seat/floor back panels. Another reason to think about Mopar unless he tells me he's making flaky parts :)

George

Not sure that an SUV would satisfy you after years of being used to the space of a van. I have nothing against the Tahoes, but nowhere near as usable interior as a van. ANY van, regardless of who makes it.

If you want something a little thirstier and full size, why not check out the Transit?

That is the psychological battle I'm fighting. The big Transit has sucky passenger footwell ergonomics for my wife and the seat rows are crunched together. And I want heated seats/dual climate control for my wife so I NEVER have to hear her complain. Yesterday we did a trip in my Subaru. 90 degrees outside, AC on, and she has a blanket on her lap...

But there is a part of me that wants a new toy and a real truck (I have owned a full size pickup or van since 1978). I am trying to intersect the "boys want toys" thing with buying a motorized appliance and going all ADD in my thought process.

For the times I need ALL the space in a full size van I could probably rent a dang U-haul and get by fine with a minivan or Tahoe or even an Explorer/Flex. Or a Transit Connect.

I drove one and the lusty V8 sounds from the Tahoe/Yukon hit me hard in the soft spot in my head (just not ready to give up my last V8 maybe--I've owned 17 V8 cars/trucks). I would have a tough time shelling out the bucks, though, and would kick myself WHEN gas goes up bigtime in price again. And load height sucks. The ADD impulses go for the "ooooh shiny" factor though...and fuel econ numbers on the Yukon/Tahoe are about 1 mpg shy of the Traverse and way better than the Expy.

George

Yeah, I know the feeling George!

I think you owe it to yourself to at least check out the Nissan vans. You can get the lusty V8 sound without GM reliability or the SUV interior compromise. Made in Mississippi from what I can tell.