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Humor me some thoughts on oil viscosity
I seem to have this internal debate about this time every year, as spring and summer are approaching.
My V10 is used primarily in the summer months as a tow vehicle. And summers in my neck of the woods can see ambient temps in excess of 100' during July and August. When I'm climbing mountain passes, my engine can/will run in excess of 4000rpm for 5-10 minutes hauling a combined vehicle weight of ~15k (truck, camper, and trailer total). I have an OBD-II bluetooth adapter and Torque app on my phone. I've seen coolant temps climb to 230' during these climbs. (I can't "see" oil temp with the app) Which brings me to the subject of this thread. Is 5w-20 truly adequate for these conditions? Yeah, yeah - I know Ford recommends this particular viscosity. But I think they also make their recommendations with CAFE/energy efficiency as a factor. And perhaps, just perhaps, they may be cheating us that work out engines hard in the summer months. So, what say you? Does anyone here run heavier weight conventional oil (non-synthetic) in the summer months? 10W-30, for example? Just curious what some of the experts here have to say. Thanks all. |
Excellent subject. I'd love to hear from an expert about this also. But unfortunately we'll instead get a lot of opinions from end users like you and me.
My V10 doesn't work as hard as yours, but I've wondered the same about oil viscosity. I wish we had a true expert available to weigh in. |
Ford designed, and upholds a warranty, around an engine designed to run a certain viscosity. You are welcome to do what you chose, because it's your truck and your money. Me, I trust the engineers. If they engineered that engine, with tight tolerences and specific oil needs, to use a certain weight, then I go with that. I would rather change my oil more frequently than change the viscosity and do long-term damage because oil didn't flow properly to where it was supposed to.
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Originally Posted by hodge5
(Post 15212200)
Ford designed, and upholds a warranty, around an engine designed to run a certain viscosity. You are welcome to do what you chose, because it's your truck and your money. Me, I trust the engineers. If they engineered that engine, with tight tolerences and specific oil needs, to use a certain weight, then I go with that. I would rather change my oil more frequently than change the viscosity and do long-term damage because oil didn't flow properly to where it was supposed to.
I share your views with every line you typed. Only one aspect of my thoughts somewhat misalign- Ford engineers have a slightly different set of values/goals than I do. Two things: 1: ford engineers care about gaining a half of a MPG. I don't give a crap 2: ford engineers probably have a goal of about 100,000 to 150,000 miles of life. My truck is well beyond that. Couple that with the idea that 20weight engine oil is absolutely unheard-of for the first 100 years of automobile history, and people start getting uncomfortable. But again; I strongly agree with you. And if my van had low mileage, and if I had the means to get a replacement van at the 100,000 point- I would use 5W20 without concern. |
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...fc4cf515cc.gif
I concur as those who design, build and warranty these engines know more about them than I do. The primary thing for us (as owners) is to insure it has oil at all time - even dirty poor quality oil is better than low/no oil. |
I was told by an Amsoil engineer when 5W-20 first hit the marketplace, that it was specifically used for fuel efficiency. And, he added, that there would be nothing wrong with using 5W-30. He said it wouldn't hurt anything. If you were to call up Amsoil's technical service dept. nowadays, they would stick to the OEM recommendations, just to save themselves from a lawsuit.
But, since you are talking about dino oil (and I have no idea why you would use that, especially with the temps your oil gets to-I'd rather use synthetic, as at least you'll have a lot less 'boil off', due to the molecular structure of synthetics, vs dino oil), I have no idea. I guess if you want to continue to use dino oil, I'd stick with what Ford recommends. That's just my two cents worth. John |
John/98ClubWagon,
What is Amsoil and where can I buy it ? Just kidding... Sounds like Magic Beans. And you sound like a salesman. |
And, after reading your original post again, you do realize that any number in front of the "W", is the winter viscosity, right? The "20", or "30" at the end is the number to be used in the summer. Your 'flash' and 'fire' point of the oil is the difference between the 20, and 30. "0W", "5W", and "10W" is mainly used for pour points in the winter. Look up any technical data bulletin for those oils, and you'll see.
John |
Yes, I've been a dealer for almost 30 years, but I'm not trying to sell you on Amsoil. Notice I said "synthetic", and not "Amsoil". I don't care what you use, I'm just trying to inform you of my 30 years of experience with oil, and how it works. You did ask about viscosity, right? I'm no expert either, but I know at least the information I just furnished.
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I used to use my '98 V-10 to pull a 35 foot camper, and pulled it over the Appellations, with no problems with oil. But, of course, my V-10 is older, and can run 5W-30, and yes, I was running the 'magic bean' oil.
John |
Aw, man...I didn't want this to descend into a conventional vs. synthetic oil debate. There are a ton of other threads for that subject. I feared that might happen, though.
Army RET: that gif is outstanding! Thank you for the Thursday morning laugh. As for the comments about "Ford designed this engine, they must know what they're doing"...Ford engineers also worked on and/or signed off on the 6.0 diesel engine design. And I think most anyone who truly knows the engine innards would agree that particular power plant had some inherent design flaws. So, no, I don't always trust that the engineers knew what they were doing or made correct decisions all the time. Im50fast: those 2 points are very valid. Ford probably even cares about .1mpg. Or maybe even .05mpg. I'm with you - I don't much give a crap. Especially when I'm towing. |
To the community at large:
Ignore this guy. There is an established policy here at FTE that any Amsoil "dealers" are unwelcome. They are all eventually told to leave because they just can't stop pushing Amsoil. 98ClubWagon, you are officially warned.
Originally Posted by 98ClubWagon
(Post 15212329)
But, since you are talking about dino oil (and I have no idea why you would use that, especially with the temps your oil gets to-I'd rather use synthetic, as at least you'll have a lot less 'boil off', due to the molecular structure of synthetics, vs dino oil), I have no idea.
But that never stopped Amsoil or it's dealers from spouting "facts" every chance they get. There is a reason most if not all Amsoil is not certified to any current-day specifications. The viscosity of synthetics is modified using solvents which do evaporate over time. Which is why there are many stories out there of "I used dino oil at first, then switched to synthetic, now it uses a quart between changes". Switching back to dino oil, the usage stops. Go figure. |
Originally Posted by Krewat
(Post 15212664)
To the community at large:
Ignore this guy. There is an established policy here at FTE that any Amsoil "dealers" are unwelcome. They are all eventually told to leave because they just can't stop pushing Amsoil. 98ClubWagon, you are officially warned. The "boil off" idea is exactly backwards from established fact. But that never stopped Amsoil or it's dealers from spouting "facts" every chance they get. There is a reason most if not all Amsoil is not certified to any current-day specifications. The viscosity of synthetics is modified using solvents which do evaporate over time. Which is why there are many stories out there of "I used dino oil at first, then switched to synthetic, now it uses a quart between changes". Switching back to dino oil, the usage stops. Go figure. So, wise guy, what's your definition of 'boil off'? It isn't where the larger molecules of dino oil burn off, in high heat situations? That's why SYNTHETIC (notice I didn't say Amsoil) oil is manufactured with all similar sized molecules, to prevent 'boil off', and also, to increase the 'pour point' of the oil, in cold conditions. And, if you were to use the engine flush (which I have used countless times) BEFORE anyone switched their engine over to SYNTHETIC (again, I didn't use the word Amsoil), then there's no oil consumption at all! I have plenty of cars where I don't add a quart in 20,000 miles! So, go figure!!! So, I don't care who you are, but you won't be 'warning' me about ANYTHING!!! If you don't like Amsoil, I really don't care, but don't be saying I'm pushing anything, when I'm NOT!! John |
For someone who's supposed to be a 'moderator', you sure aren't doing your job right!!
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98ClubWagon
Calm down buddy: we will all gladly welcome you here as long as you keep the Amsoil comments to a low null.
And please realize that Krewat is the moderator so it is counterproductive to sass him. May I please be so bold as to suggest that Krewat will not reply/respond as long as you behave accordingly. You have to admit that Amsoil's following is somewhat cult like... And your recent comments (on multiple posts) ain't fooling anyone: it's clear that you are "backhandedly" complimenting the product you sell. Personally I like Valvoline/Mobil1 synthetic, but I literally don't care if anyone else buys it. Your posts make it pretty clear that you have "a horse in the race". Please, John, edit or delete your posts to Krewat and I'll also delete this one. Let's all play nice. |
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