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-   1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum40/)
-   -   4.6/5.4 stand alone ECU and/or TCU (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1359312-4-6-5-4-stand-alone-ecu-and-or-tcu.html)

ap67et10 01-29-2015 12:44 AM

4.6/5.4 stand alone ECU and/or TCU
 
Some of you have seen my shop truck build. I did a CV suspension and 4.6 2v and 4r75w trans. I do not run the stock PCM which makes tuning much easier and the install much cleaner.

I have seen many do the CV suspension but can only assume people don't typically do the 4.6 at the same time due to the complicated electronics. I see people spending all kinds of time making other engine fit when the 4.6 is a great engine with good power and even better reliability and efficiency!

I have been contemplating putting together a complete Plug n Play ECU and/or TCU setup to give the option to use the 4.6/5.4 with or without the 4r70/75W trans. It would be a simple system that is just batch fire fuel and could be used on the EDIS ignition or Coil on plug system found on the later engines. The goal with this system would be affordability and simplicity of install.

My initial guess is that the cost for just engine control would be somewhere about $1000-1200 and with trans control about $1700-2000. A coil on plug engine will probably cost about $200-300 more due to the added wiring and ignition module, but would be the same in terms of easy of install

These would also come with base tunes too so it could easily be fired up and running well. You would need to do some fine tuning but I could also help by providing services for that too if there is demand.

I'm not trying to sell anything, just trying to see if there is a legitimate demand? It seems like people would want something like this, but I thought I would actually ask. This is one group that uses the CV swap often so to me it just makes sense.


Thoughts, suggestions, opinions???



Andrew

PROSTOCK 01-29-2015 06:22 PM


Originally Posted by ap67et10 (Post 15038469)
My initial guess is that the cost for just engine control would be somewhere about $1000-1200 and with trans control about $1700-2000. A coil on plug engine will probably cost about $200-300 more due to the added wiring and ignition module, but would be the same in terms of easy of install


Thoughts, suggestions, opinions???



Andrew

Nice idea but seems pretty pricey, you're talking about at least $5k with unknown reliability. I doubt it will be easy or simple to pull off. Not sayin' it's not interesting, I want to put a V10 in mine. An after market Holley or like fuel injection system is more realistic to me.

ap67et10 01-29-2015 10:20 PM

Where did you get the 5k figure from? I'm saying that I can have an ecm with harness and trans computer with harness for the 4.6/5.4 that plugs right in for around $1700-2000. If you think that is expensive you have never done anything with fuel injection.

This is almost identical to the setup I am currently running in my 64 F100 with 4.6L/4R75W setup. It is the best part about the truck. Very clean install and extremely reliable.

Doing this actually makes the 4.6/4r70/75w swap easy. Instead of trying to swap in some old carbureted pig V8. This, along with the suspension makes these old trucks easy and nice daily drivers. I would hop in my truck and drive it anywhere. Id let anyone hop in my truck and drive it anywhere, it is that easy to drive. No different than hopping into a new car.


Andrew

jowilker 01-30-2015 04:18 AM

Andrew I have stated several times recently, if I were strating a build now I would certainly be looking at 2010 or newer for running gear.

Honestly, I don't know where I would start, but have ridden in a 4.2 V6, an Ecoboost (woah) and have a 4.6 in my 06 F150. All of those engines deliver good power and mpgs to boot.

We changed the oil in my 06 yesterday and I couldn't get over how clean it was under the hood. You can steam clean my 66/390 drive it for a week and there will be oil everywhere.

I support your effort to work on a package that anyone can use to install a modern powerplant in their 40+ year old truck without breaking th bank.

my 2



John :-X06

KO1960 01-30-2015 07:55 AM

I like the idea of a plug and play harness, and the price seems reasonable to me. An aftermarket efi system would cost more. I have personally seen Andrew's truck, and it is a very clean install. If I ever do a motor swap, the 4.6L would get serious consideration.

ashleyroachclip 01-30-2015 09:07 AM

I have used the megasquirt stand alone efi on my mustang, clean , simple to install, and the computer can either be bought assembled, or you can assemble it yourself.
Megasquirt is an open end programming, so you never have to pay for updates or upgrades to your vehicle.
Tuned with a laptop or Bluetooth.
Price was less than 500.00 for the build your own the last one I bought 3-4 years ago.

With harness and neck, I believe I was in this about 800.00 with small parts and such.
The MS. Will run on the ford sensors , or GM, which are mostly Bosch.

37 Ford guy 01-30-2015 10:38 AM

As a fairly recent convert to fuel injection, I applaud your efforts. About 1.5yrs ago I swapped a '92 EFI 5.0HO/AOD into my '66 shortbed. I got engine, trans, computer, everything from a rear-ended Mustang GT with 62K miles. I used the Ford Racing harness which was around $500 and it was plug and play. I love it and now I want to fuel inject everything! Ha!

Ford Racing also makes "control packs" for the 4.6 3V, 4.6 DOHC 4V and the Coyote 5.0 all for around $1500 each but they say they're designed for manual 5/6 speed trans only. I see where you're incorporating an auto trans controller for just a little more than their price. It sounds like your pricing is reasonable compared to what's already available but it would be interesting to see a comparison between what you propose and what's already available....:)

ap67et10 01-30-2015 11:11 AM

John,

I am with you 100%. My truck is daily driven (about 5500 miles on it since June) and it doesn't leak a drop of oil. It also fires right up in ice cold weather or hot weather or any other kind of weather...and I get decent mileage too. About 14 in town and 20 on the freeway. (It cruises at 70mph right about 2200 rpm, I often look down and realize I'm speeding). It also has plenty of power for anything I'm doing, including pulling cars on my car trailer which I have done multiple times now. (Best towing gas truck I have ever owned...f350 diesel isn't a fair comparison for towing though)

Some people love their original trucks because they say they are simple and easy to fix. This makes me laugh because that might be a good comparison if my truck broke down...the truth is, I haven't had to fix a single thing on my truck since building it. So while ease of repair is a good point, it's only a real consideration if both examples break down the same amount or even close to the same amount. If people were honest about their stock truck they'd admit it requires a specific mentality and skill before attempting to operate. Some people like that added effort and that's fine, but every single person that has driven or riden in my truck would take it over a stock one in a second because it's just so much easier! You get the function and reliability of new cars with the old truck look, which is what I think most people really want.

This is why I went fuel injection with the electronic overdrive transmission with the modern suspension and brakes. I see lots of people finding huge benefit in the suspension and brakes, but it seems they miss out due to a complicated install of the 4.6. I want to make it easy, because the 4.6 is an extremely reliable power plant and best of all it's so availible. It is literally the most plentiful engine and trans in every junk yard I have ever been to!

So if installing the electronics and wiring for EFI and electronic auto trans was simply a matter of hooking up the labeled connectors, attaching ground wires, 12v switched wires and battery constant. Who would be interested? Don't get me wrong you will need some computer skills to get everything dialed in perfectly, but it's not overly complex.

More questions, concerns, thoughts are welcome!



Andrew

ap67et10 01-30-2015 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by ashleyroachclip (Post 15041973)
I have used the megasquirt stand alone efi on my mustang, clean , simple to install, and the computer can either be bought assembled, or you can assemble it yourself.
Megasquirt is an open end programming, so you never have to pay for updates or upgrades to your vehicle.
Tuned with a laptop or Bluetooth.
Price was less than 500.00 for the build your own the last one I bought 3-4 years ago.

With harness and neck, I believe I was in this about 800.00 with small parts and such.
The MS. Will run on the ford sensors , or GM, which are mostly Bosch.


Yes, this is a route that most don't want to take though. I also assembled the MS3 in my truck. I would be putting together a MS based product, but not an assembled version. It would be a basic kit, batch injection, waste spark COP or EDIS. It'd have a couple extra pins for added features, but mostly designed to just operate the engine and trans and electric fan.


Andrew

ap67et10 01-30-2015 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by 37 Ford guy (Post 15042284)
As a fairly recent convert to fuel injection, I applaud your efforts. About 1.5yrs ago I swapped a '92 EFI 5.0HO/AOD into my '66 shortbed. I got engine, trans, computer, everything from a rear-ended Mustang GT with 62K miles. I used the Ford Racing harness which was around $500 and it was plug and play. I love it and now I want to fuel inject everything! Ha!

Ford Racing also makes "control packs" for the 4.6 3V, 4.6 DOHC 4V and the Coyote 5.0 all for around $1500 each but they say they're designed for manual 5/6 speed trans only. I see where you're incorporating an auto trans controller for just a little more than their price. It sounds like your pricing is reasonable compared to what's already available but it would be interesting to see a comparison between what you propose and what's already available....:)


Your experience is very common! Every person I have know that successfully installed EFI on something won't ever go back to a carb. I have seen some botched EFI installs where the owner blamed the EFI as crap, but the reality was the install and/or tuning (which is human error) was crap, not the fuel injection.

Other than the Ford option, there really is no option for the 4.6L. I have seen some megasquirt installs like mine, and some other aftermarket EFI installs, but to my knowledge nobody does a plug n play version especially with auto trans. The biggest thing with most aftermarket EFI is the harness. You need to figure it out. That would not be the case with what I am planning. You'd get harnesses, both ECM and TCM, wide band O2 setup and it'd have a fuse/relay box for both. Hook it all up and it should fire right up and run decent. Then you'd have to do some checking and verify all is well, and off you go for fine tuning and enjoying the EFI life!


Andrew

PROSTOCK 01-30-2015 05:02 PM

Perhaps I don't understand the price breakdown correctly, so let me ask this. If I wanted to put a 5.4 and auto trans in my '65 what would it cost?

kstones63 01-30-2015 06:37 PM

I am installing an 04 Navigator engine and trans in my son's 63 uni and this is what I had planned to use.
Ford 4.6 & 5.4 Wiring-Ron Francis Wiring
I know that it isn't plug and play but it isn't that complicated. It will run about $1200 by the time that we get the PCM reflashed.


Kevin

fun-ford 01-30-2015 11:16 PM

I also used the Ron Francis kit. Very simple to install. Been together for 40000 miles no problems. Always over 20 mph. Plan on doing the same thing in my 60 crewcab

chaser1602 01-31-2015 10:17 AM

You'd get harnesses, both ECM and TCM, wide band O2 setup and it'd have a fuse/relay box for both. Hook it all up and it should fire right up and run decent. Then you'd have to do some checking and verify all is well, and off you go for fine tuning and enjoying the EFI life!


I'm in.


But how do you hook up the trans linkage


And what about the speedo

Decipha 03-03-2016 09:56 AM

I know this is an older thread but I figured it should reply

everything your trying to achieve can be done with the stock 99-04 f-150/mustang ecu for free

FBFG2 / EFIDynoTuning


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