Bolt-on power
 

Hello folks.

I am looking for some input on performance and mpg improvements in my 91 F-250 with 460 and E4OD.

I am interested primarily in low-end torque for the purpose of towing my boat and trailers around the mountains.

I am considering Hedman headers, x-pipe, etc for exhaust. 2 1/2 inches sound right?
I am also considering a high performance air intake/filter combo from K&N or Banks.
I have done some research on computer upgrades from companies like Hypertech or Jet. Are the benefits of a chip or programmer worth it?
I have also heard good things about switching to an HEI distributor as far as freed up power and MPG improvements.
When I come back later to do a rebuild, I will invest in camshaft, porting, etc. But I don't need a rebuild right now (only 44,000 miles) so I'm interested in best bang-for-the-buck, bolt-on help.
I'm not looking to race my truck, lol, I just want what towing and efficiency help I can get.

First off throw EVERYTHING out the window for MPGs.
The ONLY way to get better fuel milage is driving habits, NOTHING else will change that

E-fans, and an egg under the loud pedal...

X2^ MPG and a 460 is not compatible in the same sentence :) However, you can get 10 or so if you drive it right when not using the truck for work.

Having said that, long tube headers, a good exhaust, and a free breathing intake will make some difference.

Forget the advertising claims… nothing will change enough to pay for itself in a reasonable time.

I had a 454 crew cab dually that was switched to an Edelbrock 'system' back in the early 80's… cam, intake, carb, dizzy, headers all in one package. We went from 5.5 mpg to 5 mpg after spending $1200.00.

The headers will make the engine more 'efficient' but I doubt you'll see any appreciable mileage gains. An HEI unit is ez to install but, again, you won't see any gains in mileage.

Installing an aux. two speed O/D trans, 3.55 gears and taller tires will help keep your revs down… that would help.

Keeping the truck tuned, correct air pressure in the tires and keeping your speed down will do more than spending lots of $$$ on fresh parts.

Long tube headers, bump the timing to 13*, and keep everything maintained well, is about all you can do without opening up the engine.
The other stuff is pretty much gimmicks that separate you from your dollars.

Despite advertisement claims..

I've found the best way to improve your MPG is by replacing worn out stock parts that actually effect MPG, for example, my fan clutch locked up and I was losing a couple MPGs. I replaced the clutch and my mileage improved. I could have done an electric fan swap and freed up more power and potentially mileage, but I didn't. A free flowing intake improved my acceleration, but not power or mileage. Long tube headers gave me a noticeable power increase, however.

Long story short, replace what you know needs replaced. Spark plugs are a big one for example. With a 460, you'll want to try to restore it to it's stock condition with new parts to get the best mileage. If you're wanting power, depending on what you do and how you do it, there's always a possibility that you'll lose mileage.

Also, just a little suggestion. Don't waste your money on a chip claiming a noticeable power increase or mileage. I've seen many of these in person and have personally tested them and saw absolutely no results. As for diesel rigs, I have seen chips that actually do provide gains. But personally, I've never seen an improvement by using a chip on a gas rig.

Forget the X-pipe it won't fit on most trucks, longtube headers and a single 3" will produce the most low rpm torque.

Waste of money, just remove the air horns if they are still present and install a good quality filter in the stock airbox.

Not on this vintage motor you can get the same gains by simply advancing timing at the distributor.

That is complete nonsense there are no performance gains available at the distributor, period.

echo the mpg and performance on a 460 do not go together.
You get one or the other but not both. Performance is easier to get than mpg.
Personally on my 460 I'm looking to put back the stock air assembly, I think they do a better job than aftermarkets for my applications. Not a fan of the K$N unless you're running a strip car.

Paul, not trying to hijack, but what make of long-tube headers should I be looking at? L&L no longer makes them for our trucks. Guy at JBG's said a set of Mad Dogs - 460 Fenderwell Exit/ EFI

I was gonna have an X-pipe made to fit or maybe an H-pipe. Also have to remove the horns. As far as 3" exhaust, it that from headers back? I was going to use a hi-flow cat and bullet muffler. I thought about true duals with 2 high-flow cats and bullet mufflers(hi-flow). I am going to sell my K&N set up and go back to stock air box with a good filter too. Thanks man!
:-X06 :-X22

Not trying to hijack, can you explain what you did orwhere you got it to have a free flowing intake? Thanks!:-X22

Sure, it's quite simple.

I removed the snorkel that runs from near the top of the radiator (where the air is taken in) to the bottom of the airbox, and removed the airbox/filter itself. Then all you should be left with are the two long rubber tubes coming from the throttle body (or one long rubber tube if you have MAF rather than MAP)

My truck does not have the mass airflow sensor so I have two tubes. What I did was put a 45 degree aluminum elbow coming from the tube closest to the firewall, and a straight aluminum pipe exiting the tube closest to the front of the truck. Then on the end of each pipe I put a K&N cone filter. Optionally, you could run two short straight lengths of pipe out of each tube, and buy a dual inlet K&N filter. (Or whatever brand you prefer). If you DO have a Mass airflow sensor, you could probably get away with just removing the airbox and add one short pipe to the end of the tube with a cone filter on it. Though I'm not sure if this would effect the sensor as personally I dont have one. Also, as for the crankcase breather tube that runs from the top of the motor to the airbox, just remove the tube and put a crankcase breather filter on it. I use a 10 dollar edelbrock one because it's all my auto parts store had.

I attached a picture of the setup so you can get a better understanding. Doing it this way saves you a lot of money instead of buying the official K&N plastic tube specifically for our trucks, though I still decided to use K&N filters. You can get some cone filters on ebay for around 10 bucks each and get the same results. I did it for ACCELERATION IMPROVEMENT, NOT HORSEPOWER.

Enjoy! :-X22
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3a390e71e8.jpg

Awesome! Are those your stock tubes? I have a 460 twin tubes also. Did your truck have the air horns? I just got the BBK throttle body and I really like what you did. I like the crankcase breather idea also. Are those tubes the same size as on a 460? Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. :-X22

No problem :-drink

Yes, they are the stock tubes. Unsure exactly as to what you mean by "air horns", but all I had to remove in order to do this was:

snorkel to airbox
airbox and filter
crankcase breather tube
---------------------------

I want to say there isn't a difference in the tube length, but I can't say for sure. If you had issues with clearance I'm sure you could find a way around it. If there is a difference in tube length, it can't be too significant.

Oh, and from personal experience, nice choice on the BBK throttle body. A close friend of mine has a 351w and he got some VERY decent power gains from adding a Edelbrock performer upper intake manifold, BBK throttle body, upgraded injectors, an intake setup similar to mine, and a distributor timing advance. He had good results with all of these things working hand in hand. Unsure of what kind of gains you'll get with only an upgraded throttle body, as the stock intake manifold might hold it back, you know? Just my two cents. :-X0A6

That is a 5.8L motor not the 7.5L Right.??? 460 has air horns

Correct, that's my 95 351w 5.8L EFI.

Uummm.. Thats not exactly true.. I mean yes the 460 is a guzzler for sure but there are lots of ways to make it more efficient. I myself got 15.5 mpg highway and 11-12 city when I had my 460. (regret selling it)

Check this out, FOUR WHEELER Magazine's Project M.P.G.

They finished with 343hp, 684 ft lbs torque , 12.23 city and hwy combined mpg, 13.51 hwy mpg, didnt touch any internals of the engine, And that battleship of a truck is a crew cab dually centurion...
:)

Good places to study are BIG BLOCK FORD'S or 460 Ford Forum for ideas........big block fords make outstanding racing engines but they take considerable $$$$$$ doing it.......there is very little you can "bolt on" to get places with the 460........:-X22

While this setup MIGHT reduce the restriction on the air intake, it also means you're pulling in hot underhood air rather than cooler outside air. Hot air is less dense than cool air, so you need more of it to make the same amount of power. So it's not clear how the gains and losses will balance out.

And I'm not sure what you mean by differentiating acceleration from horsepower. Newton tells us that force = mass x acceleration. In this case force comes only from horsepower, so you can't gain acceleration without adding power (except by removing weight).

Interestingly, in a recent issue Fourwheeler included this project as one of the 10 worst projects in the magazine's history, citing the huge investment needed for what they described as relatively minor gains. Not sure that I agree with them, but it was interesting to note, especially when I see the project touted here so frequently.

HEI will give significant gains over an LEI (low energy ignition), but that hasn't been an issue in vehicles since sometime around 1980 (give or take a bit). All factory ignition systems since then have been pretty darn good, with very little room for improvement. If you are looking to squeeze the absolute best performance you can out of an engine, regardless of cost, it's a place you can throw some cash. But it's not a place for easy gains anymore.

I knew there would be someone who had to have an issue with what I said.

It's funny how I know for a fact that the acceleration improved because I actually drive the truck every day, but someone always knows otherwise. Every truck is different.

I had a sluggish response and poor acceleration before installing, and afterwards I noticed a clear increase. Sure, if you say you can't increase either horsepower or acceleration separately, then their must have been an un-noticeable gain of horsepower not worth mentioning.

Sorry about that.

I read that entire article a few times and applied some of the information to my truck. My 351 has topped out at 18 MPG on the highway. But, that's Canadian gallons so probably closer to 15 or 16 US. That's pretty good considering it was only getting 9.5 when dad gave it to me.

For what it's worth, the article also mentioned that simply replacing the standard air filter with a freer breathing one made a difference on low and midrange power. However, when they put on a K&N high performance kit (similar to a pair of cone filters) that used air from under the hood the huge amount of air available was able to offset the lower density and provide a horsepower boost at higher RPM. It's not stated clearly in the article but it's stated in one of the sidebars. I missed it the first couple of times I read the article.

I'm not saying you didn't increase horsepower. For all I know you increased it significantly. All I was saying was that I didn't understand separating acceleration and power. If it helped acceleration it must have helped power.

And my comments on your hot air intake were exactly what they look like on the surface, no hidden digs. Hot air is less dense which hurts power and acceleration, less restrictive intake might help, it's not clear where the balance would be. But if you're getting more power, then that shows where the balance is in your truck.

What is your budget? That determines everything. Seems the common ground is start with headers and exhaust, adjustable fpr, bbk throttle body, then after that its a camshaft, ported intake and head work.

This is the most realistic reply! Everyone searching for MPG that are not to be found! And the money spent searching for MPG's will never be recovered.

Forget all that diesel time.

Thats crazy cause they gained almost 100hp, almost 200 tq, and nearly doubled the MPG without touching the engine internals... Thats pretty awesome in my book.

If the air flow increase is enough, it offsets the negative effects of the warmer air that makes it less dense. For example, say the increased air flow without the negative effects of it being warm air adds 10 hp, but the air being warmer takes off 4 hp, you still have a gain of 6 hp over the stock cold air box.

If the stock cold air box could flow as much as the ram air, then that would give you the full 10 hp increase.

Check this out, FOUR WHEELER Magazine's Project M.P.G.

I did this to my 460 when i had it and it is legit, it worked.

They finished with 343hp, 684 ft lbs torque , 12.23 city and hwy combined mpg, 13.51 hwy mpg, didnt touch any internals of the engine, And that battleship of a truck is a crew cab dually centurion...

That article is such a load of BS it is not even funny. I have supecharger an I am not putting out 343hp. SO i will say their CLAIMS of full milage are BS oo

In the August 2014 issue of Fourwheeler which had the five worst (sorry, I had said 10 earlier) projects in the magazine's history, they summarized the projects results as going from 4.6 to 8.9 mpg city and from 8.9 to 12.3 mpg highway. They go on to say that at 1999 fuel prices that would have taken 8-10 years to pay back the $4,822 investment. That's how they classify it as a bad project.

I said earlier that I'm not sure I'd agree with their assessment, and having done the math on it now, I'd say I disagree. To figure the payback you need to assume a price of gas, and what percentage of the driving is city and what is highway. Picking $1.50/gallon (my recollection of 1999 gas prices) and a 50/50 mix of city/highway gives a payback of 47,000 miles by my calculations. I'd call that a 3-4 year payback rather than a, 8-10 year payback, and I'd say that's pretty darn good for any attempt to gain mileage.

Changing the driving mix to 25% city / 75% highway stretches the payback out to about 65,000 miles, so that's maybe getting iffy as a reasonable investment. But then again, gas didn't stay at $1.50/gallon for that long after 1999, so that improves the payback too.

Anyway, Brad's comment about the believability of the results aside, I certainly wouldn't stack this up as one of Fourwheeler's 5 worst projects. It's got to rate better than Dr. Dooley!

Just an observation about something. I work for a company that builds UPS trucks. They are powered by regular old 6L GM engines but they are mated to a HD Allison Trans. I'm guessing similar to what the Duramax trucks get. It isn't a terribly HD engine.
To help meet the GVWR the intake tubing is nearly 4" in diameter. The air box is truly huge and at least double what I've ever seen in a normal pickup application including diesels.
The exhaust is huge as well. Especially considering a non turbo gasoline application. I'd guess the exhaust at 3.5"



As for the 460.....I don't have real world experience yet but have been reading a bunch. Opening up the exhaust and intake should help. Don't expect huge gains though.
One of the sites I was reading a guy gained 100rwhp and 2mpg with an engine package a guy put together for him. In two different vans. One a 4x4 the other a delivery van. I found his site looking for max effort iron head 460 heads.
Sounds like 700+dyno proven HP is possible with more common iron castings.....Even more with SCJ heads. (that's the direction of interest I'm going with my 460 build.....800hp SCJ head 545 stroker)

I believe the HP numbers are at the crank, not the wheels. Also as I said, I know for a fact it is legit because i did it myself and went from 8mpg to 14.5 mixed town/hwy and a considerable increase in hp/tq. I didn't dyno it but definitely a large increase.

If I had a EFI 460, some money, and wanted more out of it without opening it up I'd put some L&L headers on it, big exhaust, a whipple/screw type supercharger, and cowl induction.

I'd think that would net a rather good HP increase and maybe a little better MPG given the better/cooler flow and that the whipple has a bypass to reduce drag.

I wouldn't say nothing will increase MPG, but very little can be done with the engine without a rebuild to increase MPG. Synthetics, ignition upgrades, higher temp thermostat, new injectors, and cowl intake is about it, small gains but gains. But some can be done to the truck, again synthetics, the right tires, but most of all aero mods. Air damn, under pan, tonneau cover, lower front end, etc.

That is funny, because I have everything they had done BEFORE my supercharger, but I had better gears(3.55) and a factory OD trans and the best I could ever get on the highway was 13. So like I said, BS

Brad, weren't they working with a Bricknose with a C6? If they were I can see all those improvements giving some major help, especially with the first generation efi heads, although I dont know about those numbers they post.

What kind of HP/Torque increase did your Vortec Charger give you for that 460? I'm guessing at the expense of 4-5mpg

Brick nose with No OD C6 and NO lock up T/C which is HUGE

I have a .76 OD and it is 100% "lock up" since it is a stick. You can't get much better than that.

I just came back from Carlisle and got 11.5mpg 90% high-way 10% RACING around town
Before the S/C it would get 13mpg as a high with 100% highway

How much HP/Torque do you think the super added?

Right from Vortech.....
7.5L: Increase HP from 230 to 311 and torque from 385 lb./ft. to 450 lb./ft.

Damn. Ported heads and a nice exhaust and thats a pulling animal

Yeah, heads are on the list and the full header back exhaust is already done