Chassis swap
 

I have a 1954 f100 and am thinking of doing a complete chassis swap. What would be the best vehicle for this swap?

Welcome to FTE!
We would love to see pictures of your truck.
Chassis swap is an often discussed topic here. There are many threads on it.
The first question I would have is what is your skill level. This is a very advanced project. I would guess 1 in 10 succeed, if even that. The frame widths and many other dimensions are different, you can't just put your body on a new frame.

Why are you looking to do a frame swap? You might be better off another route.
Have you considered something like this: TCI Engineering ~ 1-800-984-6259 ~ American Made Street Rods, Hot Rods, Classic Trucks, Ford & Chevy Muscle Cars Suspension and Chassis Parts. 1948 Ford Truck or Pickup Chassis 1949 Ford Truck or Pickup Chassis 1950 Ford Truck or Pickup Chassis 1951

You would be cheaper in the long run going with that unless you are doing all the work and are expert level fabricator.

Why is it you want to do a chassis swap? As said earlier, many are started and few are finished, but the best thing about it being your project is that you get to decide how you want to do it.

If you are looking at it from an upgrade standpoint, when I did mine I added power steering, power brakes, disc brakes on the stock front axle, 289 and C4, and a 9" in the rear for better drivability. All were fairly simple upgrades to perform in the garage and cost was reasonable.

When I answered a CL ad for some tires for the rear of my F1, I found the guy was building a 49 F1 for his son. He had adapted the body onto a Ford Ranger frame and said he only had a couple of things to do to finish (looked like all he had done was body mounts and, of course, a hydraulic suspension). That was last summer and it hasn't moved from that spot in his driveway since.

Whatever you decide, keep us posted on your progress. And welcome.

I am doing a chassis swap on a 54 right now, I used a 4 door explorer 1997 model, the wheel base is about 1" longer than the original , but it works good, im using the running gear also. I used the floor and firewall out of the explorer, if I had it to do again I would have just used the whole cab from the 54!! [a lot of fab work] but im happy with it so fare, George.

Please post photos. I always like the idea of frame swap options but very few people post details about them. Please share more of your build.

Yeah gas6999 show us what's goin' on!:-jammin

I appreciate everyone s input.I am new to this site and the online forum s.I have finally got some pictures up. I am looking at doing the swap a means to achieve comfort and dependability.

A big part of the equation is skill and money. I have neither, so I'm staying stock. That and I like the idea of a stock truck.

If you are new to restoration, here are some good reads:
TRIALS OF A FIRST TIME BUILDER
WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A CLASSIC FORD TRUCK: Part 1 | Ford Trucks
WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A CLASSIC FORD TRUCK: Part 2 | Ford Trucks

Actually those are good reads even if you are well versed in this hobby.

It's a pretty good group of guys here. If you ask an opinion, you are sure to get many different sides of the issue. About the only thing that gets us riled is safety issues (well and rat rods, but that goes back to safety.)

Ask away on anything. If you include pictures, we answer faster. :) We love pictures.

For those that don't like to click to find pictures. Here is one.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...5368544f5b.jpg

Hey Our 1954,
Welcome Aboard!!!! Looks like a fun project. Whereabouts in North Carolina are you? We've got some experienced members in NC - I grew up in Chapel Hill - Go Heels!

Why not tell us a bit more about your truck & your current plans?
Looks like your front left fender met up with something.

Full chassis swaps are discussed often on here. You can search for that one after you have a few more posts. You can get rid of the annoying ad's & post pics directly from your hard drive if you become a member - makes the site easier to use.

You can replace a rear axle with a more modern one in (1) weekend with minimal welding/grinding. Most folks go with a Ford 9 inch or an Explorer 8.8 inch axle with gearing to match your needs. (We've got the Explorer axle with 3.73 gears & a locking diff - from a 2001 at a salvage place for $125 & then some replacement pads, etc.).

The front Axle is a different story. If you want to replace that one you get into extensive welding/grinding, pulling the engine/trans, ripping out wiring,
re-doing the steering & hoping the geometry & alignment work when you are done. (4) months & $2500 - $4,000. Or - You can refurbish the stock front end & install Power Steering in a couple of weekends with no life dependent welding. Approx. $800.

I can only think of (1) or (2) members who have successfully completed a chassis swap. I can think of 100's who have upgraded the stock chassis with axle swaps.

Looking good in North Carolina.

Ben in Austin
1950 F1

Wow, has it really been two to three weeks since the last chassis swap thread???
To summarize all the past couple hundred chassis swap questions/answers:
1. There is no easy or ideal late model chassis to swap into one of our trucks.
2. Any chassis swap is going to require a great deal of fabrication, metal working, problem solving skills and functional compromises, as well as time and money.
3. There are a whole lot of cheaper and easier ways to achieve the same end result utilizing the stock chassis.
4. the start is the easy and seductive part, the devil is in the details.
5. The majority of the attempts have ended up providing scrap for Chinese steel manufacturing, the basis of another rat rod/off road buggy or a very often amusing post on ebay or Craigslist when the starter thinks the remains still has value to someone and tries to recoup some of his investment. It has brought some of the best to their knees.
If you really think you have what it takes to beat the odds, please take lots of pictures/notes and stop back in at least once a year and update your progress.

I have been on this forum for 10 years now and have seen a couple dozen starts and no more than 2 of what I would call a successful (driving, with a functional bed deeper than 6", didn't look like it escaped from a tractor pull) chassis swaps. I'm not particularly a purist, but a realist. You won't likely get much help here, not that we don't like to help, because we really do (I'm trying to help right now) just that there is no one I know on here with any significant experience with getting much past setting the body on another chassis.

Maybe not a truck (which would be much easier) but I have done a "completed" chassis swap.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...%20rod/183.jpg

I did it for the same reasons you are probably considering it, a faster and easier way to get modern suspension and brakes. After doing it IMO there is no time savings in it and a better chance of making your truck worthless.

Here is a dodge truck for sale locally I would of loved to get before somebody thought a frame swap was a good idea. If they hadnt cut the whole firewall and dash out it may have been savable, but the guy thinks it is worth 5x what it is really worth..which is less than if he had left it alone. These "chassis swap" trucks show up pretty often for sale as half done projects, wonder why?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...psaf2e6df7.jpg


It can be done, but there is no time or fabrication time savings. Unless your frame is garbage I would mod the stock frame.

The best chassis swap is one that involves a custom-built chassis ala TCI, Art Morrison, etc.

Yes please do tell where in NC you are, and about your fabrication experience level. If that's you in the pic, I suspect you might be in the Fayetteville or Jacksonville area? We really are a friendly and extremely helpful group, but sometimes being the most helpful means being completely honest rather than telling someone what they want to hear. Chassis swaps has got to be the #1 most often brought up topic, so we sometimes get bored saying the same thing over and over. There just isn't any later model chassis that fits these trucks worth a flip, where as it is relatively easy and highly successful and satisfying to update the chassis Ford originally put under them (altho, just a safety update and rebuild of the OEM chassis and suspension with a drivetrain update yields a very comfortable, dependable and enjoyable truck in a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the cost). Because of the former problem and complexity, trying to do a chassis swap would be a multi year project (if ever completed) for any but the most highly experienced, skilled and dedicated full time fabricator with a fully equipped shop.
PS: I have a set of older (that's a good thing) but unused FG repro front fenders and valance I might be interested in selling.

well, #1 if you can change cab corners you could do a chassis swap
#2 you talk about after market chassis you didn't add how much they cost!!
#3not everybody wants a old chassis under there truck, maybe they want a newer modern suspension!
#4 a ford explorer 4 door fits real well, and the bed only has to be lifter 2"s so I really don't know were the 6" bed comes from!! George.

.
.
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/ea...emoticon-1.gif
.
.
.
.
.
.

You can have a chassis that looks like mine if you go with a custom made like chuck mentions -> Custom Chassis

1. Really? Never messed with wheelbase changes, setting pinion angles, making a driveshaft, fabricating structural brackets, etc when doing cab corners.

2. For some it is the way to go.

3. The idea of upgrading the stock frame is to get modern suspension, brakes and steering. I have a 51 frame with 1986 Jag IFS, rack and pinion steering, 4 piston disc brakes. 2000 Dakota springs and a GM 10 bolt rear. Low buck and works. I cant afford a Morrison chassis so I make due.

4. So George how long have you been working on this swap and could we see pics?
My 37 buick build took a year almost to the day starting the build to driving down the road, slideshow is on youtube.
I could do a truck faster and probably will in the future since I have a spare cab and bed with no frame. I want to see if the explorer frame is an option for me. Pics?

#1 Seriously??? You may be able to bolt or weld the cab onto the chassis, but there's a ton of less obvious problems to solve such as the steering column and pedals will be offset to the left of the seat center since the newer cab was much wider, The steering wheel will be in your lap since the engine/firewall is further back, Firewall and dash is structural in the F1s F100s, so cutting them out and replacing them is no easy task. The front sheet metal is aligned and supported off the OEM radiator support. Just to start naming a multitude of details needing work. There's a LOT of more complex fab work than welding a corner patch. Someone who has only welded in a patch is highly unlikely to successfully complete a chassis swap.
#2 Have you priced out the labor cost to have someone else do a chassis swap if you don't have all the skills, time, equipment, shop space to do it yourself or to purchase all the equipment and parts needed? Or the loss incurred when they scrap the uncompleted project that was way over their head?
#3 It's a he!! of a lot easier to add a modern suspension to the stock frame! The front and rear suspension doesn't care of the connection/support is older or newer, any more than it cares how old the body sitting on top of it is, it won't work significantly better or worse. The return for $ and hours spent to do a full suspension upgrade or chassis swap is very poor, A modern suspension "advantage" over updated OEM is WAY overrated in actual use. I personally find NOTHING compelling about the Explorer chassis or suspension, it's a completely unremarkable vehicle! ( Aside: it was the #1 vehicle turned in under the "cash for clunkers" program!) Mostly just ego wash and bragging rights for the Sunday lawn chair show crowd. If they have the skills to do the work go for it, but most that have the skills and knowledge know what headaches they are in for and take the easier route. Many would rather drive their truck than spend hundreds of hours locked in the garage or fall over a pile of parts for years.
#4 I must be looking at different pictures of a explorer chassis vs an F100 chassis, there looks to be a much larger rear kick up than a 2" difference, the explorer is quite swayback in the center compared to the F100. True, I have never found a compelling reason to actually measure one.
I do have the skills equipment and space to do a chassis swap if the right donor was available, but I also have the experience and understanding, and foresight to know when to walk away from a project that isn't worth it, so I wouldn't do it. I could design and build a vehicle from just a drivetrain and pile of raw metal If I wanted to. Would I? NOPE, not worth it, there are a lot of easier and more practical ways to get there.
#5 One needs to be able to rationally and realistically assess their abilities, priorities, needs and desires before leaping in with both feet.

George, Are you keeping the EFI? Will you use the Exploder's A/C system? ABS?

Don't forget to discuss the swap with your local DMV early on; they go off frame serial numbers, so I assume this will be titled as an Explorer?

well, I can tell one thing some of you have no idea what your talking about! some of you are talking crazy, you have no idea!! just because someone wants to scrap the original chassis and put a real one under it you try to bad mouth everything!! why would you have to change the pinion angle? or cut driveshaft? your swapping out the whole chassis, the steering wheel will be in your lap, crazy talk!! why would the firewall be farther back?? armchair mechanics some of you need to keep your opinions to yourself, when you don't have a clue what your talking about!! do a search on the computer and you will find a lot of people that have changed chassis with explorers and they worked out great!! just so you know I wasn't going to reply to this message but I just couldn't help myself, I cant stand to see some of you bash something you don't know anything about, George.

albuq f1 I was going to keep the efi but after doing a bunch of research I found the PATS is real fun to bypass, so I built a carb 302 and am going to use a aod trans so I don't have to buy a stand alone computer to run the trans, the title im hoping to be able to use the 54 title[I hope] man I don't want to have to title it as a explorer, GEORGE.

Still waiting on pictures.

You should do some research there. I can't speak for North Carolina,(I just realized you're from Florida, but it still applies) but in Kentucky, Minnesota, and California they don't care about the body. It's all about the chassis/running gear.

California did a serious crack down about 10 years ago. I know that's the other end of the country, but it was all about emissions and taxes. How long will it be before the other states follow the same route?

This seems to happen very often. Some one comes to this site and post a very simple question about a chassis swap. It is usually the 1st few post,and they are unable to use the search function.

They get a great welcome. A couple of people, usually the same few, chew them out for asking a simple question. Then go into great detail, how they are so stupid to consider that, and how impossible it is.

It is not impossible or really all that difficult and it is done very often on many types of cars and trucks.

The real shame in the entire posting is usually the original poster seems feels so unwelcome and ridiculed he leaves and we loose a potential member.

The chassis swap post are beginning to look like a HAMB post. That is a real shame.
Opinions will vary I'm sure.
Larry

I agree Larry,

I've never done a frame swap but have seen several. The last one I saw was a guy put a 53 body on a Dodge Dakota frame & power train, including A/C. It was heavily modified so I didn't spend much time looking it over but it drove and sounded good. :-X22 Just not my cup of tea.:)

I wonder why folks that have done frame swaps never seem to weigh in.:-huh

I still think it can be an OK idea. But perhaps one should think outside the box. I have an '84 toyota landcruiser BJ 60 4 cyl diesel with 5 speed, ps, pdb etc and a horribly rusty body. It runs like a champ and you know the running gear is heck for stout even if you hate Jap vehicles. I also have an equally rusty '79 FJ 55 wagon, 6 cyl gas, ps, pdb that I have owned for over 25 years. The outside tire dimension is exactly the same as my '47 ford half ton and the WB is within a couple inches. I can fix that with moving the springs back. Not sure about frame kick up, but with a tall 4wd shouldn't be much of an obstacle. In 40 years of rebuilding old ford trucks I have never ever not completed a project. I would like to do this swap with a 51-52. Anybody know the track width of these 1/2 tons? I don't mean to hijack, but am offering this suggestion to the poster. The wagons show up on CL with a lot of regularity here in the West and they are always rusty and cheap. You all have no problem using their power steering, so why not the rest of their well engineered components? :-X22 Edit: The photo I got off the net. Mine once looked like that when it was my family car.

George, you haven't been on here long, so we'll forgive you for insinuating those of us trying to help the original poster don't know what we are talking about. I for one have been building hot rods and race cars for over 50 years. I really don't care what anyone does or thinks, but I have to laugh out loud over anyone "in the know" calling an Exploder a "real chassis", IMHO it's a "real" piece of crap with no redeeming qualities as a truck or a car. I'd much rather have the original 54 frame with droptop's Jag IFS (along with the Jag IRS given my druthers, but a triangulated 4 link solid axle isn't bad) or even the rebuilt OEM beam axle with Toyota PS, power disk brakes, and leaf sprung 9" (Oh yah, that's what I did chose for my panel) over an ill handling ******* child parts bin combination of a pichup and Stupid Uselss Vehicle chassis. And yes, I do know a little bit when it comes to chassis, my siggy of the yellow car is the cover shot of me driving my Solstice from the 2010 SCCA National Autocross Championships program. If you look in my "extras' gallery you find pix of my one brother's Omega pulling a 3' wheelstand, and my other Brother's dragster both with the Frank Brothers racing enterprises logo. I am the third and founding brother. I have written several of the articles and tutorials on here on such diverse subjects as PS upgrade options, mig welding, body work and suspension upgrades. This is not my first rodeo.
If you have to change the Exploder engine over to carburation and to a (shudder... dreaded) AOD tranny or spend a lot of money on a complex aftermarket EFI harness and tranny controller, the "real chassis" becomes even less financially appealing! Just wait until you try to fit the FEX AC unit under the 54 dash, or to get the hood to close. The pix in your album that I looked at just show a cab laying on it's back on the FEX chassis. I do hope you are much further along than that before setting yourself out as an expert in chassis swaps. Have you done any that have actually been driven?
I too don't know about FL DMV regs, but in most jurisdictions these days the serial # stamped on the 54 Ford frame rail is the ONLY part that legally ID's it as a specific 54 truck. Same with the FEX chassis, the VIN # stamped into the frame and the corresponding title is the only thing that makes it a 9X Explorer, Yje rest is just a pile of misc. parts. Doesn't matter what any (or no for that matter) sheet metal is attached to it is from it's still a 199X Explorer! Unless FL is unique (wow, is that an understatement!) The life of and ownership of the 54 ended when the original frame was removed and/or the paperwork that matched that frame was lost. In my state of NC your chassis transplant would first have to have ownership of the FEX chassis and the rest of the parts proven, Then have to be registered as a 9X Explorer or be given an 2014 assembled or homebuilt title and have the frame stamped with the new corresponding DMV issued serial number. From then on it would have to meet all the safety and emissions regulations for a 199X or 2014 vehicle. Another MAJOR legal stumbling block and reason for keeping the original frame over doing a chassis swap. But then again I don't know anything I'm talking about "having never done this before", so I'm probably just guessing wrong..

BJ I have done a chassis swap or two, so I have direct experience and knowledge of what it entails, and it's MUCH more difficult than welding in a patch panel!
I'm outa here now, I'm going to watch my good friend race his Pro Mod (he's #2 in points currently) tomorrow. "Might" even do a little pit crewing. while I'm there... :-wink

You are right, but the problem with the internet is it is impossible to have an actual discussion or debate because you cant tell the emotion of the person speaking. Everything comes across as black and white, either you agree or disagree. I tried to let the OP know that while it seems like the easy way out the frame swap really is not, there is more to it than it seems. Anyone who knows me knows I dont argue or yell over this stuff but it is hard to convey across the net. I will help anyone with anything if I can, but I also try to learn from others and my mistakes.


IMO the reason that those who have done frame swaps dont weigh in is because there may not be any here who have completed one. I did mine on a car which is more involved than a truck, I finished it, and I do not plan on doing it again (on a car anyway). There was no time savings. I can clip a frame or put in a jag in a weekend, forget about doing a frame swap that fast.
What tweaks me is someone telling another possibly inexperienced builder that it is a simple deal. If it were a simple deal I would not see so many half finished trucks for sale after an aborted frame swap attempt.
We know what the effort is to tear down and rebuild a truck with the original frame, now add in body mounts, floor mods, bed mods, potential wheelbase and track mods, and you see how it can get out of hand.
Doesnt mean I wont be doing one though!

I think it's about time they start a new forum just for chassis swaps. Since this topic keeps coming up over and over a forum just for it would clear a little air.

now to clear the air, I never said it was easy to do a chassis swap!!! but if you have the skills to change cab corners that you have the skills to do a chassis swap period!!
im talking a explorer the frame width is right the wheelbase is 1" longer which you can takeup when you install the rear fenders.
the bed floor will have to be raised up about 2"
also you will need to fab up the rad core support to the front fenders.
I am using the explore firewall so the new steering column will go right back in the original place as will the brake peddle and gas peddle.
I did change my dash out with a 51 victoria dash I had, my dash had a lot of holes in it and someone cut it up to put a radio in it, that's the only real reason I put it in!!
this swap is a lot of work and fab work but it can be done and when you get done you will be driving a 97 explorer down the road that looks just like a 54 ford f100. witch is just what I want . this can be done if you want to do it, George.

reply to dave[drptop70ss] you talk about half finished chassis swap projects for sale ,well how many half finished restoration projects do you see for sale, a lot, see you guys want to tell half the story !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the problem is people lose interest, not only on chassis swaps!!!!!!!!!!!! George.

Still looking for the pics of your swap, George. How far down the road are you? Pictures speak louder than words. Some narrative to tell us how you solved some of the problems would help others contemplating a swap. AFAIK, no one has ever posted a Build Thread for a frame swap, in the 10 years I've been on here. If it turns out well, it could become the new, best way to get there.

You're right, a lot of guys buy an old truck and before they've ever driven it, they tear it apart to do extensive mods. Lots of them run out of time, patience, or cash and just sell it off. Some good bargains to be had.

George, I have a question.
The '53-'56 front tires sit around an inch (1 1/4") behind the center of the front wheel opening. It's a "problem" many effie owners don't like. Why wouldn't you align the entire body on the rear axle/fenders, nearly centering the front tires? It seems like it would make the '97 explorer a near perfect match, wheelbase wise.

Try goggle search 1953 to 55 ford f100 frame swap.
Several discussions and pictures on various hot rod sites.
Larry

Effietrucker, that is exactly what I did, I centered the front wheels in the fenders put the running boards on and centered the rear fenders, front fenders mounted to the cab!!!! what I have to do if I want to put the fenders back on the box the way they were is to either put a spacer between the running boards and front fenders or[ my option] lengthen the running boards. I live in fl so we have a lot of car shows here the last show I was at there were about 20 53-56 f100 4 of them have swapped frames, all 4 of them put a spacer in the front of the running boards to get a good alignment, George.

There is a difference. The half finished stock restos can be saved. The half finished frame swaps where the PO cut out the dash and firewall among other things are now ruined unless you can find another cab to fix it. I know all about it. I have bought many, many half finished projects over the years. The usual reason they "lose interest" in these chassis swaps is they run up against something that was not expected or realize they are over their head. The ones done right get done.
The explorer swaps I see that have been done or never finished in my opinion are chop jobs, cut out the dash and firewall of the pickup to use the explorer dash. I have seen one so far that was finished, an obvious high dollar build. Others I saw looked cobbled together. Another "time saver" that isnt. If I want to look at an explorer dash I will drive one, but I love the character of an old vehicle so I try to keep the look as much as I can .
So again, how long have you been working on this truck and is it finished yet? Pictures? I can document every step of my chassis swap build no problem. How about showing some tips instead of yapping so much? Oh wait I need more of these !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

70ss, what are you talking about looking at a explorer dash, I have only saw 1 chassis swap with a explorer dash in it, and no I didn't like it or would I put one in my 54!! I swapped my dash out because it was butchered, probably the guy before me that owned it was going to do a chassis swap, so he chopped the dash up[right]!!!!! now you see the blinders you have on!! do you see them!! I said hind sight I would have put the whole cab on the explorer frame , and not have cut the floor out, I didn't have to cut the dash out if I didn't want to, I like the 51 Victoria dash, as far as pic,s I don't even know how to post pic,s ! and if I need pic,s for you to believe me that im building a 54 with a explorer frame , well[being nice] too bad for you George.

George,
Requesting pictures is not a matter of believing someone. We just like to see, discuss & celebrate progress. :-jammin It also helps others get ideas and information for their or future builds. After all this forum IS about helping each other:-X25

Posting pictures is pretty easy. Especially if your a member. Someone will post the instructions again soon.

Hey Guys,
These threads are always difficult. I do remember seeing a swap thread some time back where the member PWRHS posted his '56 F100 swap onto an Explorer frame. He did a very nice job. Please keep in mind that PWRHS owns his own shop and has some serious skills including wiring harness updates & computer reprogramming in addition to full lifts, multiple welding options etc...

Do I think a backyard mechanic can do this - no. Take a look at the work done in the interior bed area.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...55-56-a-3.html

His truck pictures are below.

Ben in Austin
1950 F1

Hey Gas
I think the original question on here was posted by a young guy from North Carolina looking at different options. If you'd like to show your build I'd recommend starting a new thread with lot's of pics showing your progress.
You are new here - just keep it friendly & open. Have fun with your build & good luck over there. I do look forward to see what you are working with & how you approach the different challenges. It can be done if you have a lot of skill & experience. We went the other way & modified the existing frame with new front IFS & an Explorer rear suspension. That was hard enough for me & took us forever & a lot of money.

Ben in Austin
1950 F1